Josh Allen and the Check Down Pass

[billsfan89]

18 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

A large part of that equation also comes from Daboll’s Run, Run, Pass ruts. He needs to trust Josh more on the early downs, particularly first down and early in the game. Josh does really well on first down, but he doesn’t get as many chances as other QBs. We are basically split evenly on run/pass throughout the game. New England is really pass heavy through the first three quarters. Last year in the 2nd quarter they passed at a 2:1 ratio. I think Buffalo could put a lot of games away early if they were that aggressive in Q2.

 

I think a lot of what makes Tom Brady so impactful is that he avoids sacks and turnovers so well and he rarely wastes a down. The Pats under Brady would rarely find themselves in third and long situations. Part of what makes Brady so efficient is the fact that he is almost always getting production out of a down even if it is just a 2-4 yard dump off. Brady also prefers a safe 8-9 yard throw that would produce a first or a 2nd or 3rd and short to a riskier 25 yard gain. Which results in less turnovers and incomplete passes and still moves the ball forward productively even if it cuts down on the bigger plays.

 

I think Josh and Daboll need to learn how to make each other more efficient. Josh as 2019 went on learned to avoid the turnovers a bit more but he still took a lot of sacks which tend to be drive killers. If Daboll can put Josh in a game script that allows Josh easy plays on first and second down I think Josh can get more comfortable and feel the need to “make something happen.” I think that it is good that Josh can make some plays here and there but if he is asked to do that too often he will make mistakes and develop poor habits. Whereas if he is in a position to make good decisions often he will develop that. 

 

I have no problem with a run heavy offense but the short pass should be a big early down component to any offense. 

[Michael1962]

5 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I think a lot of what makes Tom Brady so impactful is that he avoids sacks and turnovers so well and he rarely wastes a down. The Pats under Brady would rarely find themselves in third and long situations. Part of what makes Brady so efficient is the fact that he is almost always getting production out of a down even if it is just a 2-4 yard dump off. Brady also prefers a safe 8-9 yard throw that would produce a first or a 2nd or 3rd and short to a riskier 25 yard gain. Which results in less turnovers and incomplete passes and still moves the ball forward productively even if it cuts down on the bigger plays.

 

I think Josh and Daboll need to learn how to make each other more efficient. Josh as 2019 went on learned to avoid the turnovers a bit more but he still took a lot of sacks which tend to be drive killers. If Daboll can put Josh in a game script that allows Josh easy plays on first and second down I think Josh can get more comfortable and feel the need to “make something happen.” I think that it is good that Josh can make some plays here and there but if he is asked to do that too often he will make mistakes and develop poor habits. Whereas if he is in a position to make good decisions often he will develop that. 

 

I have no problem with a run heavy offense but the short pass should be a big early down component to any offense. 

Yes, TB is impactful but in my opinion watching him play is about as entertaining as a dental visit.  So I think most would agree a % of TB to balance/ground JA would be a good mix.  He is a lot of fun to watch as is.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

 

 

Josh Allen should Check The Ball Down more often.  ?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

So many “pro football” sites 

Darin Gantt - ProFootball Talk on NBC Sports June 12, 2020, 6:52 AM EDT

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/josh-allen-doesn-t-want-105229061.html

 

All saying the same thing?

 

Adding wide receiver Stefon Diggs this offseason gives him a legitimate downfield weapon, and gives Allen another way to avoid playing it safe.

 

Josh Allen doesn’t want to become “Captain Checkdown” originally appeared on Pro Football Talk

[ganesh]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:34 PM, BigPappy said:

 Don't you think calling Trent a coward and a fraud is a little harsh? He stood in there and took hits and often right up until he took that last one that changed him for ever. He was never going to be great but he could have been pretty decent if not for that nasty hit he took. I never played Football except for with friends and I don't know what your history of playing the game is, but unless you have been in his shoes.... take those beatings.... it's a bit unfair of you or anyone to judge him as a coward or a fraud.  

well said

[Hebert19]

On 6/11/2020 at 4:32 PM, Protocal69 said:

https://www.nfl.com/news/bills-qb-josh-allen-i-m-not-going-to-be-captain-checkdown
 

No one would mistake Allen with a checkdown king. Pro Football Focus published a study that showed over the past two years, Allen threw just 20 checkdowns on 880 attempts. His 2.3 percent was the lowest among all qualifying quarterbacks. On third downs, Allen particularly refuses to give up on plays. He's thrown just one checkdown on 245 third-down attempts (0.4 percent).
 

Josh needs to improve his completion percentage BUT it’s funny how many QB who have high completion percentages but give up on plays because they are too scared to pull the trigger. If Josh can improve improve his completion percentage without being captain checkdown and hit the deep ball 2 times a game then look out NFL.

The dude converts more third and longs than any QB I've ever seen.  No check down for 3 yards in this guy. 

[Reneth Gilne]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:04 AM, BigPappy said:

 Don't you think calling Trent a coward and a fraud is a little harsh? He stood in there and took hits and often right up until he took that last one that changed him for ever. He was never going to be great but he could have been pretty decent if not for that nasty hit he took. I never played Football except for with friends and I don't know what your history of playing the game is, but unless you have been in his shoes.... take those beatings.... it's a bit unfair of you or anyone to judge him as a coward or a fraud.  

taking hits isnt why he is a fraud, it was how he pretended to make reads downfield and never threw it there. The game he finally got benched was the one where TO called him out for this to the coach after Jauron was fired. Fitz came in and it was a whole new ball game.  He came back in when Chan took over and lasted 2 games before getting cut after throwing the ball over his head out of bounds to avoid the hit.  It was fourth and long, game on the line vs GB, he should have thrown it, pure cowardice. Like Ortons slide it was selfish and lost the game on that play.  

 

The "Hit" has long been debated here mainly because his best game ever as a bill came the following weekend.  Ala Rob johnson who openly admitted holding on to the ball to raise his qb rating since sacks didnt count as much as incompletions, trent learned that marshawn and fred could score on any given throw and just kept doing that ad nauseum.  Once defenses keyed this were were impotent.  Everyone and there mother screamed for long balls and called him captain checkdown, so what did Trent do?  He threw more checkdowns, in fact he plain refused to throw deep.  If it was the concussion or not, a deep throw isnt exactly brain surgery, in fact its easy, alot of dumb qb's (bradshaw, rob johnson, others...) get away by throwing over the top, no read necessary, just chuck it.  Ill also offer that trents "break out" game was against the redskins, he lead us to a comeback win, problem was to this day I swear he overthrew robert royal and Reed lucked into it.  On replay you can see he lets it go on a curl route and over throws him and the other guys whos double covered just gets it right in his bread basket.  It was the only throw trent ever made like this,  a long ball in stride to a covered wr.  It was because it was a lucky mistake.  Had trent admitted this, or thrown deep in his last 10 games or stopped looking in the monitors to fix his hair in post game pressers, or had those shifty darting eyes that never looked anyone square in the face, or made it on another team after leaving the bills and had success id have given him a pass.  But instead he just faked being a real nfl qb for as long as possible and wasted valuable time pretending to be a viable starter.   

 

I get you might not have seen it this way but I loathed him and for multiple reasons, and a concussion doesnt seem to ruin other peoples careers, not just one, and he seemed to play the same before it happened anyway, just dump offs and screens.  But we now have a real man at qb with a real brain and arm but most important of all, courage, something I never witnessed in captain checkdown.

[Alphadawg7]

On 6/11/2020 at 3:04 PM, billsfan89 said:

I love the aggressiveness Josh shows on third down. However I think on first and second down he needs to take a check down a bit more. The easiest way to get in third and long situations is to not take the 3-4 yard or even 2 yard dump off on an early down. So yes be aggressive but not stupid on third down but be smart on first and second down so you don't have to be aggressive as much on third down.

 

Agree, but it would also help if Daboll stopped running Gore draws for 1 yard on the first 2 downs too 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

EJ Manuel has some solid checkdowns in his day too.

 

 

[BuffaLoko]

On 6/11/2020 at 5:04 PM, billsfan89 said:

I love the aggressiveness Josh shows on third down. However I think on first and second down he needs to take a check down a bit more. The easiest way to get in third and long situations is to not take the 3-4 yard or even 2 yard dump off on an early down. So yes be aggressive but not stupid on third down but be smart on first and second down so you don't have to be aggressive as much on third down.

nicely put, Sir!?

[BuffaLoko]

16 hours ago, Reneth Gilne said:

taking hits isnt why he is a fraud, it was how he pretended to make reads downfield and never threw it there. The game he finally got benched was the one where TO called him out for this to the coach after Jauron was fired. Fitz came in and it was a whole new ball game.  He came back in when Chan took over and lasted 2 games before getting cut after throwing the ball over his head out of bounds to avoid the hit.  It was fourth and long, game on the line vs GB, he should have thrown it, pure cowardice. Like Ortons slide it was selfish and lost the game on that play.  

 

The "Hit" has long been debated here mainly because his best game ever as a bill came the following weekend.  Ala Rob johnson who openly admitted holding on to the ball to raise his qb rating since sacks didnt count as much as incompletions, trent learned that marshawn and fred could score on any given throw and just kept doing that ad nauseum.  Once defenses keyed this were were impotent.  Everyone and there mother screamed for long balls and called him captain checkdown, so what did Trent do?  He threw more checkdowns, in fact he plain refused to throw deep.  If it was the concussion or not, a deep throw isnt exactly brain surgery, in fact its easy, alot of dumb qb's (bradshaw, rob johnson, others...) get away by throwing over the top, no read necessary, just chuck it.  Ill also offer that trents "break out" game was against the redskins, he lead us to a comeback win, problem was to this day I swear he overthrew robert royal and Reed lucked into it.  On replay you can see he lets it go on a curl route and over throws him and the other guys whos double covered just gets it right in his bread basket.  It was the only throw trent ever made like this,  a long ball in stride to a covered wr.  It was because it was a lucky mistake.  Had trent admitted this, or thrown deep in his last 10 games or stopped looking in the monitors to fix his hair in post game pressers, or had those shifty darting eyes that never looked anyone square in the face, or made it on another team after leaving the bills and had success id have given him a pass.  But instead he just faked being a real nfl qb for as long as possible and wasted valuable time pretending to be a viable starter.   

 

I get you might not have seen it this way but I loathed him and for multiple reasons, and a concussion doesnt seem to ruin other peoples careers, not just one, and he seemed to play the same before it happened anyway, just dump offs and screens.  But we now have a real man at qb with a real brain and arm but most important of all, courage, something I never witnessed in captain checkdown.

Best QB resume for Trent Edwards I  have seen in a long time... 

[Juice_32]

This is the ultimate stat to throw at the “Allen is inaccurate” crowd. I can’t ever remember a time, in my 30 years of being a fan that 3rd and 10 didn’t feel like an automatic punt. 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

11 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

EJ Manuel has some solid checkdowns in his day too.

 

 

Clearly the back’s fault for not diving to get the easy completion 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Clearly the back’s fault for not diving to get the easy completion 

I know—really!! Use a little effort there! 

[Bangarang]

There's nothing wrong with using your checkdowns especially when guys can be dangerous with the ball in space. It would probably be a benefit to our offense if Allen took some easy completions/yards.

[Warcodered]