Brueggs Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: At least this is honest. Yep. That is what it always does. But in this case the sum is complicated by the fact that it doesn't know how much a full scale revolt by its talent would cost. It is complicated, but something tells me that with those kind of salaries, a full scale revolt isn't likely.
LABILLBACKER Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, wppete said: https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/ https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/ct-colin-kaepernick-timeline-liststory-20200607-b5gigmlp7jf53itj7d6xxdvgo4-list.html Check these stats and charts. I suspect another huge dip in 2020. let’s see how the public reacts in 2020. I'm not denying that NFL viewership has gone up and down the last decade. But for this year 2020 you're telling me that every single season ticket holder unable to attend a game, will not find a way to watch it? And that factors in if every single player kneels before a game.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 2 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said: The biggest point of this came from kneeling a few years ago. I think it is great the players have a cause they feel so much about. Their choice of kneeling gametime alienated many people. After their work hours have at it, but not when the fans that pay to see the game and relax (get away from it all) are there. If people want to enjoy the game but gameday the NFL and players are pushing it, where is the enjoyment for the fans? So they should speak up when they have no audience? I’m not sure how a guy kneeling changes your experience? I really don’t understand that. Can someone explain. When it’s 20-17 in the 4th quarter I’m not thinking about how much more I would have enjoyed this game if a guy didn’t kneel during the anthem. I’m not trying to be sarcastic I just can’t wrap my head around it. I don’t care if they do cartwheels during the anthem or intros or whatever. My interest in football is what happens between kickoff and when the clock hits zero. 1
wppete Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I'm not denying that NFL viewership has gone up and down the last decade. But for this year 2020 you're telling me that every single season ticket holder unable to attend a game, will not find a way to watch it? And that factors in if every single player kneels before a game. No Im not saying anything. Just pointing out the charts and dates. Very telling.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Hermes said: Exactly. People like to think these things are mutually exclusive so they can have one without the other. It baffles me how many people equate their jobs/professions with that of an NFL player. They train tirelessly for their entire lives to reach 'the pinnacle' of their profession yet (you) as a middle class (insert profession here) believe that the conduct of you both should be held to the same standard You hit on something here that kind of crossed my mind. Athletes are different. They aren’t guys at the call center that can easily be replaced. If Mahomes, for example, decides that he’s kneeling no matter what the league is in a corner. There’s nothing that the league can do. They need him. 1
NoSaint Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: So they should speak up when they have no audience? I’m not sure how a guy kneeling changes your experience? I really don’t understand that. Can someone explain. When it’s 20-17 in the 4th quarter I’m not thinking about how much more I would have enjoyed this game if a guy didn’t kneel during the anthem. I’m not trying to be sarcastic I just can’t wrap my head around it. I don’t care if they do cartwheels during the anthem or intros or whatever. My interest in football is what happens between kickoff and when the clock hits zero. that’s the part that gets me with the “I could never enjoy a game with these political statements” crowd. I don’t think I’ve ever particularly even looked at the players during the anthem. If it’s your escape, just stop trying to police every else’s behavior, right? I can get not liking an ESPN talk show focused on it but the game? 100% uneffected 1
Kirby Jackson Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Brueggs said: What are you saying? You are elevating NFL players to a higher standard than the middle class, or "regular people" in general? To be "the pinnacle" of any profession requires exceptional effort, not just for people that play a game for a living. Its also a privilege. So I guess what you saying, is if your out to eat and your waiter wants to promote Trump, your'e good with that? It’s not though it’s earned. If Patrick Mahomes takes a dump on Andy Reid’s desk nothing happens to him. This isn’t an employer/employee relationship necessarily. The sports model is different. The players are your assets. Ford sells cars. The NFL sells the talent of the players.
Cripple Creek Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 38 minutes ago, Adam727 said: I try to keep politics and sports separate (including on here) but since this thread specifically asks... I wish President Trump would stop trying to politicize the NFL for his own gain. Football is where I go for 3 hours to get away from that kind of stuff. I've never considered athletes kneeling to be all that political. If they want to use their celebrity to bring awareness to an issue that's important to them it doesn't bother me any and they have my full support. I've never liked the way the President and his allies in the right wing media have tried to co-opt what I view as a harmless peaceful statement into some sort of political nonsense about disrespecting the flag. I've never fully understood why it's so easy for some to confuse the two when that's clearly not what anyone is trying to do. They are confusing the issue so much are bastardizing it to suit their needs. 25 minutes ago, Putin said: I had no idea that saluting our military had anything to do with politics , is it ok to thank them for their service or that might offend someone? The NFL program was promotional, a paid event.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 Can I ask a question a different way? Let’s separate this from the anthem for a second. Would people have an issue if the 2 minute warning in the 1st half was a chance recognize what they are trying to achieve by kneeling? It could be like the 7th inning stretch in baseball. If everyone on the field took a knee at the 2 minute warning to bring awareness to their cause would people still have an issue? I guess the question is it the anthem that needs to be held sacred or their protest that needs to be silenced? Just curious...
Cripple Creek Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, NoSaint said: that’s the part that gets me with the “I could never enjoy a game with these political statements” crowd. I don’t think I’ve ever particularly even looked at the players during the anthem. If it’s your escape, just stop trying to police every else’s behavior, right? I can get not liking an ESPN talk show focused on it but the game? 100% uneffected If you are, you're doing it wrong, eh? Never happen, but the practice should stop outside of the Olympics.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 32 minutes ago, Brueggs said: You realize that NFL players are just people, right? You are missing the point completely. Maybe someone doing their political grandstanding on their employers platform might not bother you as an individual, but if it causes a problem for the business, its not fair to the employer. There is a time and a place for everything, especially when you are representing a business for compensation. The employer has a right to terminate whomever they want. If the Chiefs decide they don’t like what Mahomes is doing on their time they can fire him. It’s like that in any job.
iinii Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 There are many layers to this onion. Will there be a marked increase or decrease in viewership depending on whether players stand or kneel? How many players will quit playing if they were to somehow lose their ability to protest? How many guys are ready to step into those roles and will the quality of play be that diminished? Will the league take that big of hit? And for how long? Kaepernick has been out of the game for how long? What percentage of fans no longer watch because of it? Great players have come and gone over the years and the game remains strong. Both sides need to tread lightly but at the end of the day, who is going to be the next Curt Flood and will it matter?
PromoTheRobot Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 7 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said: What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral. We are living in a defining moment in our history. A real crossroads. Meanwhile sports aren't even being played. 1
Brueggs Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: It’s not though it’s earned. If Patrick Mahomes takes a dump on Andy Reid’s desk nothing happens to him. This isn’t an employer/employee relationship necessarily. The sports model is different. The players are your assets. Ford sells cars. The NFL sells the talent of the players. Yes, it is earned, but its also a privilege, in any profession. I agree to an extent, but the players are also reliant on the NFL. One without the other doesn't exist. Great NFL players get more second chances than most, and we hear about it because of the publicity. Corporate performers also get those luxuries, we just dont hear about it nearly as much. I think the NFL would still survive unless there was a mass exodus. As always, its all about the money...
NoSaint Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Can I ask a question a different way? Let’s separate this from the anthem for a second. Would people have an issue if the 2 minute warning in the 1st half was a chance recognize what they are trying to achieve by kneeling? It could be like the 7th inning stretch in baseball. If everyone on the field took a knee at the 2 minute warning to bring awareness to their cause would people still have an issue? I guess the question is it the anthem that needs to be held sacred or their protest that needs to be silenced? Just curious... it wasn’t ok for Kobe to wear a shirt in pre game warm ups it’s not ok to have disagreeable opinions for most complaining. Not all but most. It gets real easy to wrap yourself in the flag during the anthem debate though and dodge the real questions Edited June 10, 2020 by NoSaint 1 1
Brueggs Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The employer has a right to terminate whomever they want. If the Chiefs decide they don’t like what Mahomes is doing on their time they can fire him. It’s like that in any job. More to the point, did the consequences of the player/employee actions justify being fired? Its different in different states, but there is usually a reason
Kirby Jackson Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Brueggs said: Yes, it is earned, but its also a privilege, in any profession. I agree to an extent, but the players are also reliant on the NFL. One without the other doesn't exist. Great NFL players get more second chances than most, and we hear about it because of the publicity. Corporate performers also get those luxuries, we just dont hear about it nearly as much. I think the NFL would still survive unless there was a mass exodus. As always, its all about the money... I used the Ford example as to why it’s different. At Ford you have people that work on the line to create cars to sell. In the NFL the players are closer to the cars than they are to the guys on the line. The NFL needs it’s stars or they lose money (and potentially millions). These players are immune to things that would get the rest of us fired. Obviously they can’t do what Aaron Hernandez did but they can do things no other “employee” could. I’m half-kidding about Mahomes taking a dump on Reid’s desk but he could. He could punch Andy Reid in the face and start 2 days later. You can’t punch your boss in the face. It’s not the same. 14 minutes ago, Brueggs said: More to the point, did the consequences of the player/employee actions justify being fired? Its different in different states, but there is usually a reason See the last post. If you punched your boss in the face would you be fired? If Mahomes punches Reid in the face would he? It’s not about the actions it is about the PERSON doing the actions. Players are different. They can do as they want (certainly the top guys). As you said, follow the money Edited June 10, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 1
Brueggs Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I used the Ford example as to why it’s different. At Ford you have people that work on the line to create cars to sell. In the NFL the players are closer to the cars than they are to the guys on the line. The NFL needs it’s stars or they lose money (and potentially millions). These players are immune to things that would get the rest of us fired. Obviously they can’t do what Aaron Hernandez did but they can do things no other “employee” could. I’m half-kidding about Mahomes taking a dump on Reid’s desk but he could. He could punch Andy Reid in the face and start 2 days later. You can’t punch your boss in the face. It’s not the same. I mostly agree with you. Certain players definitely have "immunity", to a degree. Skilled people in all lines of work get that treatment though. I can think of a carpenter punching his boss in the face and being back in the morning simply because he was the one that made the boss the most money. Now, if that was an ongoing thing, he would be sent packing. Necessity creates security everywhere in this life.
OutOfBubbleGum Posted June 10, 2020 Author Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said: Is being socially responsible something you define as a political act? It is football, not a platform for politically correct viewpoints. End of story. 23 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: We are living in a defining moment in our history. A real crossroads. Meanwhile sports aren't even being played. It's not a defining moment in history, just a day in our lives. I don't care what the players say or do six days a week, or even in the offseason. On gameday while fans are in attendance they should man up and be professional. If any player supports a rioter and looter, that player should be kicked off the team. 2
NoSaint Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I used the Ford example as to why it’s different. At Ford you have people that work on the line to create cars to sell. In the NFL the players are closer to the cars than they are to the guys on the line. The NFL needs it’s stars or they lose money (and potentially millions). These players are immune to things that would get the rest of us fired. Obviously they can’t do what Aaron Hernandez did but they can do things no other “employee” could. I’m half-kidding about Mahomes taking a dump on Reid’s desk but he could. He could punch Andy Reid in the face and start 2 days later. You can’t punch your boss in the face. It’s not the same. See the last post. If you punched your boss in the face would you be fired? If Mahomes punches Reid in the face would he? It’s not about the actions it is about the PERSON doing the actions. Players are different. They can do as they want (certainly the top guys). As you said, follow the money Percy harvin choke slammed a coach. Quite literally. And he wasn’t even a mahomes type impact player. 1
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