Brueggs Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Fair. So you are fine with the timing of salute to service? That is a pre arranged agreement between two parties. If the NFL, and team owners agreed to protesting, that would also be fine. The problem for the NFL and the owners is trying to gauge the financial ramifications this might have. Regardless of the cause, when you hijack a platform meant for something else, there are consequences that could be damaging to the very people that provide your employment.
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Brueggs said: That is a pre arranged agreement between two parties. If the NFL, and team owners agreed to protesting, that would also be fine. The problem for the NFL and the owners is trying to gauge the financial ramifications this might have. Regardless of the cause, when you hijack a platform meant for something else, there are consequences that could be damaging to the very people that provide your employment. The NFL have now basically overturned their prior opposition to the kneeling. The NFL doesn't have a product without the players. It gets that. Some of its most prominent owners even got it the first time around with the kneeling. The NFL lets politics in when it suits it. Salute to service suits it. It has now seemingly taken the view that black lives matter suits it too. Maybe the sums change as a result and it suits the NFL no longer. But both are overtly politics in sport.
Brueggs Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, SDS said: It is not your protest and the protest is not arranged around your comfort or your hard day. Did I imply that it was? Or wasn't? Your saying that everyone can do what they want, whenever they want regardless of consequences? Great idea..
Brueggs Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The NFL have now basically overturned their prior opposition to the kneeling. The NFL doesn't have a product without the players. It gets that. Some of its most prominent owners even got it the first time around with the kneeling. The NFL lets politics in when it suits it. Salute to service suits it. It has now seemingly taken the view that black lives matter suits it too. Maybe the sums change as a result and it suits the NFL no longer. But both are overtly politics in sport. You can be sure the NFL will follow the money.
Rob's House Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 Personally, I think athletes have as much right to talk about politics as anyone else. BUT, I'd prefer they didn't do it on game day. Do all the interviews you want, give speeches, march in the streets, and Tweet until your heart's content, but it doesn't need to come into the game anymore than the guy working the counter at McDonald's needs to lecture me on the tenets of national socialism while I'm waiting for a Big Mac. We seem to agree here at TBD that sports and politics don't mix well. I don't see why it should be any different on the field. I am, however, willing to make an exception when the politics being espoused match my own. 1
Hermes Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, Brueggs said: What are you saying? You are elevating NFL players to a higher standard than the middle class, or "regular people" in general? To be "the pinnacle" of any profession requires exceptional effort, not just for people that play a game for a living. Its also a privilege. So I guess what you saying, is if your out to eat and your waiter wants to promote Trump, your'e good with that? Yes if my waiter or waitress whether lgbtq decides to promote anyone they wish it would not affect the 'quality' of the meal I ordered. Also is the waiter's or waitress', in question, performances being scrutinized by millions of people worldwide.. Realistically yes someone who is world renowned should be held to a different standard than someone who is only truly known by his or her close family and/or friends
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Rob's House said: Personally, I think athletes have as much right to talk about politics as anyone else. BUT, I'd prefer they didn't do it on game day. Do all the interviews you want, give speeches, march in the streets, and Tweet until your heart's content, but it doesn't need to come into the game anymore than the guy working the counter at McDonald's needs to lecture me on the tenets of national socialism while I'm waiting for a Big Mac. We seem to agree here at TBD that sports and politics don't mix well. I don't see why it should be any different on the field. I am, however, willing to make an exception when the politics being espoused match my own. At least this is honest. 4 minutes ago, Brueggs said: You can be sure the NFL will follow the money. Yep. That is what it always does. But in this case the sum is complicated by the fact that it doesn't know how much a full scale revolt by its talent would cost.
Rob's House Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The NFL have now basically overturned their prior opposition to the kneeling. The NFL doesn't have a product without the players. It gets that. Some of its most prominent owners even got it the first time around with the kneeling. The NFL lets politics in when it suits it. Salute to service suits it. It has now seemingly taken the view that black lives matter suits it too. Maybe the sums change as a result and it suits the NFL no longer. But both are overtly politics in sport. I think it has far less to do with appeasing the players as it does with adapting to changing public sentiments. The players can piss and moan, but as long as the check clears they're suiting up.
xsoldier54 Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 Looking at the responses from this, I see pretty much what I expected. Not going to comment either way. Nobody is going to change anyone's mind regardless. 1
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Rob's House said: I think it has far less to do with appeasing the players as it does with adapting to changing public sentiments. The players can piss and moan, but as long as the check clears they're suiting up. Certainly possible but I do think there is a sensitivity to what its talent thinks here.
Cripple Creek Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 5 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said: What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral. Is being socially responsible something you define as a political act?
ProcessAccepted Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said: I supported Kaepernick's message about police violence, just not his choice to do it ON THE JOB. If you worked in a call center and campaigned for this or preached for that to every customer calling in to pay their bill, you would be fired real quick. Like when that woman refused to issue marriage licenses because of her personal objections to equality laws. Apples and oranges. Kaepernick is paid to be a QB and did that role as well as he could. He didn't go around the stands to tell everyone in attendance instead of throwing the ball. A closer analogy would be kneeling when clocking in to the call center but handling every call just like the other customer support representative. The woman you referenced refused to do her job and follow the law. If kneeling is such a disrespectful action why do people do that when they propose? 2
HOUSE Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Politics AND Sports ? Edited June 11, 2020 by HOUSE 1
LABILLBACKER Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, wppete said: Yes thats for sure, bad TV ratings and merchandise sales will do the same. Out of curiosity I went on Twitter and searched #BoycottNFL and others similar. A lot of talk. Not going to be good for the NFL. Every sport in the nation is losing a ton of money this year. TV ratings will actually be way up since fans will not be allowed entry. The virus was the first blow and now racism issues and the guarantee that many players will kneel will also cause some backlash. Kaep was justified 4 years ago and you'll see many more players both black and white join the cause. It was never about the flag. It was about creating a mechanism to draw attention to police brutality. The NFL has egg on their face and if they want to completely wipe it off then Kaep better be in a roster. I'd take him anyday over the noodle arms of Barkley or Fromm.
wppete Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said: Every sport in the nation is losing a ton of money this year. TV ratings will actually be way up since fans will not be allowed entry. The virus was the first blow and now racism issues and the guarantee that many players will kneel will also cause some backlash. Kaep was justified 4 years ago and you'll see many more players both black and white join the cause. It was never about the flag. It was about creating a mechanism to draw attention to police brutality. The NFL has egg on their face and if they want to completely wipe it off then Kaep better be in a roster. I'd take him anyday over the noodle arms of Barkley or Fromm. https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/ https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/ct-colin-kaepernick-timeline-liststory-20200607-b5gigmlp7jf53itj7d6xxdvgo4-list.html Check these stats and charts. I suspect another huge dip in 2020. let’s see how the public reacts in 2020.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 6 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said: What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral. I actually think most of the pro athletes feel the same way. They just want to play. We just want to watch.
Adam727 Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) I try to keep politics and sports separate (including on here) but since this thread specifically asks... I wish President Trump would stop trying to politicize the NFL for his own gain. Football is where I go for 3 hours to get away from that kind of stuff. I've never considered athletes kneeling to be all that political. If they want to use their celebrity to bring awareness to an issue that's important to them it doesn't bother me any and they have my full support. I've never liked the way the President and his allies in the right wing media have tried to co-opt what I view as a harmless peaceful statement into some sort of political nonsense about disrespecting the flag. I've never fully understood why it's so easy for some to confuse the two when that's clearly not what anyone is trying to do. Edited June 10, 2020 by Adam727 2 1
Dr. Who Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 I like the old Neanderthal days when sports was relatively free of overt political agendas. Something like the Olympics is a different matter where national identification is part of the pageantry and drama. Fine with me if other folks embrace the opposite, but when networks like ESPN become dominated by something other than actual sporting events, I tend to tune out. 1
Brueggs Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, Hermes said: Yes if my waiter or waitress whether lgbtq decides to promote anyone they wish it would not affect the 'quality' of the meal I ordered. Also is the waiter's or waitress', in question, performances being scrutinized by millions of people worldwide.. Realistically yes someone who is world renowned should be held to a different standard than someone who is only truly known by his or her close family and/or friends You realize that NFL players are just people, right? You are missing the point completely. Maybe someone doing their political grandstanding on their employers platform might not bother you as an individual, but if it causes a problem for the business, its not fair to the employer. There is a time and a place for everything, especially when you are representing a business for compensation.
Putin Posted June 10, 2020 Posted June 10, 2020 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: The NFL itself politicises the game with all of its salute to service events etc. It is rich of them to then complain when the players politicise it for the causes they support. As for what do I want as a fan.... I believe that once something is a multi million dollar industry (let alone a multi billion dollar industry) then it is inevitably political in some sense. Politics, sport, money and power. Four sides of the same square. I had no idea that saluting our military had anything to do with politics , is it ok to thank them for their service or that might offend someone?
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