wppete Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 https://www.statista.com/statistics/289979/nfl-number-of-tv-viewers-usa/ https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/ct-colin-kaepernick-timeline-liststory-20200607-b5gigmlp7jf53itj7d6xxdvgo4-list.html Check these stats and charts. I suspect another huge dip in 2020. 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yep. It is "I don't agree with politics in sport if it is not my politics." The military are delivery agents of foreign policy. To think that is not political is madness. It isn't about whether you think the military is a good thing or not. The military is overtly political. Gunner should RGB be recognized if he is at a Bills game? Absolutely despite I feeling her beliefs are different than mine. The military is in the same boat for me. Your stupid comment about my only accepting those that agree with me is most likely your projecting your beliefs on me. There are things in the govt realm that are not political to me, obviously you disagree. One last question- was out military good under Obama but bad under Trump? 1
Dr. K Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, OutOfBubbleGum said: The biggest point of this came from kneeling a few years ago. I think it is great the players have a cause they feel so much about. Their choice of kneeling gametime alienated many people. After their work hours have at it, but not when the fans that pay to see the game and relax (get away from it all) are there. If people want to enjoy the game but gameday the NFL and players are pushing it, where is the enjoyment for the fans? So it's okay to wave the flag at every opportunity, but if somebody silently kneels they have desecrated the game.
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Gunner should RGB be recognized if he is at a Bills game? Absolutely despite I feeling her beliefs are different than mine. The military is in the same boat for me. Your stupid comment about my only accepting those that agree with me is most likely your projecting your beliefs on me. There are things in the govt realm that are not political to me, obviously you disagree. One last question- was out military good under Obama but bad under Trump? It isn't about whether the military is good or bad. Nor is it about Obama and Trump or Republican vs Democrat or left vs right. There is nothing in the Government realm that isn't political. Nothing. Every choice a Government makes is a political choice. I know. I do Government. And I am not American and I don't care particularly either way I am entirely objective on this. But the military is an organ of the state. It is political. This isn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. You are seeing "political" as Democrat v Republican. That isn't the right prism to look at it. To try and answer your question.... NFL salute to service was a political statement when Obama was President just as much as it is now. Edited June 9, 2020 by GunnerBill 2
brooklynbill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Once Laura Ingraham open her mouth to say "shut up and dribble", the separation of sport and state died instantly. Edited June 9, 2020 by brooklynbill
Hermes Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, OutOfBubbleGum said: The biggest point of this came from kneeling a few years ago. I think it is great the players have a cause they feel so much about. Their choice of kneeling gametime alienated many people. After their work hours have at it, but not when the fans that pay to see the game and relax (get away from it all) are there. If people want to enjoy the game but gameday the NFL and players are pushing it, where is the enjoyment for the fans? So what you're saying is that, essentially a minute and a half of someone expressing an opinion, that you don't like, completely ruins a 3+ hour (180+ minute) event for you!? YOU and people like you are the problem 1 1
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: It isn't about whether the military is good or bad. Nor is it about Obama and Trump or Republican vs Democrat or left vs right. There is nothing in the Government realm that isn't political. Nothing. Every choice a Government makes is a political choice. I know. I do Government. And I am not American and I don't care particularly either way I am entirely objective on this. But the military is an organ of the state. It is political. This isn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. You are seeing "political" as Democrat v Republican. That isn't the right prism to look at it. To try and answer your question.... NFL salute to service was a political statement when Obama was President just as much as it is now. We are arguing different definitions- I mean the right vs left version and you mean simply the govt as a whole. By your standard I agree with you.
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Actually it is against rules for players to waive flags, wear shoes with pigs on them, use a cell phone, do act on Cowboys star, take off jersey to show T-shirt with message, bring in prop rifle to support gun rights and many other things where players need to follow rules. Why does this need an exception? I agree the NFL is inconsistent in its approach. It makes exceptions from its rules. It has decided now that this can be an exception I suspect because it feared a full scale revolt from its talent (ie. the players). The NFL only let overt politicism in when it thinks it is in its business interests to do so. Whether that be salute to service or kneeling during the anthem.
1ManRaid Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 3 hours ago, ProcessAccepted said: True. Generally when someone feels that politics should be kept out of things it's because they do not agree with the political views. Sports is part of daily life as are politics, the two are bound to blend (and should do) occasionally I supported Kaepernick's message about police violence, just not his choice to do it ON THE JOB. If you worked in a call center and campaigned for this or preached for that to every customer calling in to pay their bill, you would be fired real quick. Like when that woman refused to issue marriage licenses because of her personal objections to equality laws. 1 1
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: We are arguing different definitions- I mean the right vs left version and you mean simply the govt as a whole. By your standard I agree with you. I compare the military in the US to the NHS in the UK. It is so widely supported and to an extent glamourised by the public that it is almost perceived as apolitical and above politics. You can't win an election in the UK promising to cut the NHS anymore than you could win one in the USA promising to cut military funding. So the NHS just isn't a left v right issue in the UK. They argue about reforms etc but the principle is almost universally just accepted. But to an American the idea of socialised health care being considered apolitical would be madness, right? But the military and a socialised health care system are both overtly political organs of the state. When other organisations be it the NFL or the 2012 Olympics whoever else ride in with an organ of the state that carries that sort of support it does so very consciously for a commercial reason. Politics, sport, money and power. 4 sides of the same square. 8 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said: I supported Kaepernick's message about police violence, just not his choice to do it ON THE JOB. If you worked in a call center and campaigned for this or preached for that to every customer calling in to pay their bill, you would be fired real quick. Like when that woman refused to issue marriage licenses because of her personal objections to equality laws. I mean Kap was basically out of a job as soon as it was practical wasn't he? Eric Reid spent months without a team too. These guys did lose their jobs and they knew that was a risk that they ran. Edited June 9, 2020 by GunnerBill
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 If they can’t take a knee then take God out of football. no more prayers and signs of the cross. (awaits chairs being thrown) 1
Stenbar Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 I would rather not have the National Anthem sung or played at any sporting event. Play it when it means something, July 4th, Memorial day etc. It is overused and it devalues the significance and sacrifice Americans have made for it. It should not be symbol to protest it should be an honor to hear and salute. If you woukd like to protest, hold a sign and march with your fellow protesters. 2
Brueggs Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 Personally, watching a football game is nice 3 hour escape from normal life. I understand the National Anthem inserts a political element into the event. I am all for the right to protest, but I draw the line at doing it on company time. To me, it is like going out for dinner while my waiter protests animal cruelty, and all I wanted was my steak dinner. Its simply not the time. People need to find their own platforms and not try to hijack what was meant for something else. NFL players in particular, have the ways and means to do just that. 1
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Brueggs said: Personally, watching a football game is nice 3 hour escape from normal life. I understand the National Anthem inserts a political element into the event. I am all for the right to protest, but I draw the line at doing it on company time. To me, it is like going out for dinner while my waiter protests animal cruelty, and all I wanted was my steak dinner. Its simply not the time. People need to find their own platforms and not try to hijack what was meant for something else. NFL players in particular, have the ways and means to do just that. So you are fine with the anthems and the fly pasts but not with a protest you disagree with? 1
Ralonzo Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Jauronimo said: Shut up and dribble! The wisdom of Michael Jordan : Quote Republicans buy shoes, too.
Hermes Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: So you are fine with the anthems and the fly pasts but not with a protest you disagree with? Exactly. People like to think these things are mutually exclusive so they can have one without the other. It baffles me how many people equate their jobs/professions with that of an NFL player. They train tirelessly for their entire lives to reach 'the pinnacle' of their profession yet (you) as a middle class (insert profession here) believe that the conduct of you both should be held to the same standard
Brueggs Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: So you are fine with the anthems and the fly pasts but not with a protest you disagree with? Where did I say I disagree with the protest? I disagree with the timing. Its not the same...
GunnerBill Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Brueggs said: Where did I say I disagree with the protest? I disagree with the timing. Its not the same... Fair. So you are fine with the timing of salute to service?
SDS Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Brueggs said: Where did I say I disagree with the protest? I disagree with the timing. Its not the same... It is not your protest and the protest is not arranged around your comfort or your hard day.
Brueggs Posted June 9, 2020 Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hermes said: Exactly. People like to think these things are mutually exclusive so they can have one without the other. It baffles me how many people equate their jobs/professions with that of an NFL player. They train tirelessly for their entire lives to reach 'the pinnacle' of their profession yet (you) as a middle class (insert profession here) believe that the conduct of you both should be held to the same standard What are you saying? You are elevating NFL players to a higher standard than the middle class, or "regular people" in general? To be "the pinnacle" of any profession requires exceptional effort, not just for people that play a game for a living. Its also a privilege. So I guess what you saying, is if your out to eat and your waiter wants to promote Trump, your'e good with that?
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