Politics in Football, Sports in General

[SoTier]

On 6/9/2020 at 1:23 PM, OutOfBubbleGum said:

What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral.

 

 

If you want to have a sanitized NFL playing in a vacuum where "the outside world" doesn't intrude, I suggest Madden.  The NFL is made up of people, and people can't divorce themselves from their experiences or from what happens in the world.   Deal with it.

 

This applies as much today as it did 394 years ago ...

 

"No man is an island entire of itself; every man

is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;

if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe

is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as

well as any many of thy friends or of thine

own were; any man's death diminishes me,

because I am involved in mankind.

And therefore never send to know for whom

the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."

     John Donne, 1624

 

 

[Putin]

43 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

The idea that the military is "political" is interesting.  

 

Is the military conservative or liberal?  Before you answer, consider recent statements from Generals Colin Powell, James Mattis, John Kelly, and Admiral William McRaven.

 

Collin Powell also endorsed Obama over John McCain 

[Niagara Bill]

There are advantages to athletes speaking out.

1. You at least know that what they are saying (in general) could potentially  ruin their celebrity cache so they must feel strongly about their convictions.

2. You generally have known of them for a lengthy period of time so you  do know they are not a paid agent of Putin and this is not fake news....I hope.

3. If they signed with the Dolphins as a free agent you know the athlete is nuts and just discount everything they say ?

 

[JMF2006]

22 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Not trying to be an antagonist but I asked this earlier and no one responded. How, specifically, is someone kneeling during the anthem impacting your experience? Are you still thinking about that with 3:38 to go in the 2nd quarter? Once the game starts the only thing that I’m thinking about is how the Bills can have more points when the clock hits zero. I just don’t really understand. 
 

“Wanting to escape” to me is code for “I don’t like the protest.” That’s why I’m asking the question. I want to be educated. If anyone wants to explain how it changes their experience watching the game I’m all ears. It’s just something I can’t wrap my head around at this point.

 

I didn't mention kneeling but seeing as you brought it up I am not an American..... I am Canadian but I proudly stand for your anthem and support your country and despite some flaws and warts its still the envy of most of the worlds population who  would move to your country in a minute if they could.

 

Kneeling to me is disrespectful to all who have served or made the ultimate sacrifice for our combined freedoms(I say combined because if the good ole USA ever fell Canada would be in dire straits)

[GG]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In what sense?

 

3 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

i’ m all ears. How does it ideally “go both ways?”

 

Keep ALL politics & individual protests off the playing field.

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, GG said:

 

 

Keep ALL politics & individual protests off the playing field.

Including the anthem itself and the Air Force flyovers?

[GG]

17 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Including the anthem itself and the Air Force flyovers?

 

It is the National anthem.   I could care less about the fly overs at the games, although they are cool to watch.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

It is the National anthem.   I could care less about the fly overs at the games, although they are cool to watch.

It’s political.  Keep it out.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[GG]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

It’s political.  Keep it out.

 

The anthem is supposed to be apolitical.  It's the National anthem.  That's the whole point.

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

The anthem is supposed to be apolitical.  It's the National anthem.  That's the whole point.

See how this works?

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

See how this works?

 

Again, you're conflating playing the anthem with the private employer's rule of conduct.  The NFL will very likely change its rules this year.  Has nothing to do with playing the anthem before the games or not, or how individuals choose to respond to the National anthem.

[Coach Tuesday]

5 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Again, you're conflating playing the anthem with the private employer's rule of conduct.  The NFL will very likely change its rules this year.  Has nothing to do with playing the anthem before the games or not, or how individuals choose to respond to the National anthem.

 

So if the private employer ok's kneeling during the anthem, you're good with it?

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BillnutinHouston said:

 

The idea that the military is "political" is interesting.  

 

Is the military conservative or liberal?  Before you answer, consider recent statements from Generals Colin Powell, James Mattis, John Kelly, and Admiral William McRaven.

 

 

I wasn't arguing that the military itself has a political persuasion. But it is an arm of the state. It answers to the Secretary of Defense and ultimately the President - politicians. It is, by its very nature, political. Not in a right v left way. It isn't party political. It is in a "delivery arm of the state" way. 

44 minutes ago, GG said:

 

 

Keep ALL politics & individual protests off the playing field.

 

In principle, yes. In practice it is almost impossible to keep all politics out of any billion dollar industry. 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In principle, yes. In practice it is almost impossible to keep all politics out of any billion dollar industry. 

 

It's easy to keep it off the playing field.  Do whatever you want to do once the final whistle sounds

 

7 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

So if the private employer ok's kneeling during the anthem, you're good with it?

 

It's the private employer's rules and my opinion only matters if I want to consume that employer's product.

[Coach Tuesday]

11 minutes ago, GG said:

It's the private employer's rules and my opinion only matters if I want to consume that employer's product.

 

Great!  We agree.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, GG said:

 

It's easy to keep it off the playing field.  Do whatever you want to do once the final whistle sounds

 

And everything being discussed in this thread happens before the first whistle sounds and stays very much out of the game itself.

[Kirby Jackson]

12 minutes ago, GG said:

 

It's easy to keep it off the playing field.  Do whatever you want to do once the final whistle sounds

 

 

It's the private employer's rules and my opinion only matters if I want to consume that employer's product.

I think that’s a fairly utopian view. Should they not fly the flag at games? That’s political. We’ve been over the anthem. We have flyovers. We have presidents throwing out first pitches. We sing God Bless America in the 7th inning stretch. We honor military heroes during games. We do a salute to service month. The stadiums are funded by the public. There are lots and lots of political aspects of sports. That’s never going to change.

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And everything being discussed in this thread happens before the first whistle sounds and stays very much out of the game itself.

That’s one of the things that I keep going back to. If a DB takes a knee on 3rd and 4 it becomes an issue.

[GG]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And everything being discussed in this thread happens before the first whistle sounds and stays very much out of the game itself.

 

I can clarify it to when the players take to the playing field.  I'm not thrilled with the post-game prayers either.

 

25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that’s a fairly utopian view. Should they not fly the flag at games? That’s political. We’ve been over the anthem. We have flyovers. We have presidents throwing out first pitches. We sing God Bless America in the 7th inning stretch. We honor military heroes during games. We do a salute to service month. The stadiums are funded by the public. There are lots and lots of political aspects of sports. That’s never going to change.

That’s one of the things that I keep going back to. If a DB takes a knee on 3rd and 4 it becomes an issue.

 

Of course it's utopian.  Most of those are all National symbols, are largely for the fan benefit and something that the private employer approves.  It's up to the leagues to come up with the workplace rules that appease clients & employees.  Let's see how this plays out.

[Kirby Jackson]

16 minutes ago, GG said:

 

I can clarify it to when the players take to the playing field.  I'm not thrilled with the post-game prayers either.

 

 

Of course it's utopian.  Most of those are all National symbols, are largely for the fan benefit and something that the private employer approves.  It's up to the leagues to come up with the workplace rules that appease clients & employees.  Let's see how this plays out.

It’s not for fan benefit. It’s because the military is a giant sponsor. https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/amount-money-military-gives-nfl.html/
 

 

I agree that we’ve universally accepted it because why would people oppose that? It shouldn’t be “do you accept the anthem or not?” That should be 100% yes. It should be the same with systemic racism too though. That’s where this is headed. It shouldn’t be you sit on one side of the fence or the other. It should have the same universal support. It clearly hasn’t but it is trending in that direction. You aren’t going to see less protesting this year. It will be more and will also be more accepted. It won’t be universally accepted but it won’t be nearly as controversial as when Kaep started.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

I didn't mention kneeling but seeing as you brought it up I am not an American..... I am Canadian but I proudly stand for your anthem and support your country and despite some flaws and warts its still the envy of most of the worlds population who  would move to your country in a minute if they could.

 

Kneeling to me is disrespectful to all who have served or made the ultimate sacrifice for our combined freedoms(I say combined because if the good ole USA ever fell Canada would be in dire straits)

 

The military and the country it protects are not synonymous.  The national anthem, like the flag, is simply a symbol of the country while the military is an institution subservient to the country.  The military does not make policy, although its members are too frequently expected to sacrifice for those policies it has no voice in making.   What is disrespectful of the military is presidents sending American soldiers/sailors/flyers into harm's way in pursuit of questionable objectives stemming from short-sighted or foolish policies, not individuals expressing their dissatisfaction with their country during the playing of the national anthem.

 

More importantly, "freedom" rings very hollow if people aren't free to express their dissatisfaction with the conditions in the country or the current government's actions. 

 

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

The anthem is supposed to be apolitical.  It's the National anthem.  That's the whole point.

 

The anthem has NEVER been apolitical as it represents the country which is a political entity.