Politics in Football, Sports in General

[BuffaLoko]

19 hours ago, Billl said:

They should at least be up front about the fact that these displays are advertisements.  They intentionally do it on the sly in order to make people think these are organic displays and not paid sponsorships.  Pretty manipulative, IMO.

Bill .... as in Buffalo Bill.... this beer is for you, great take! the hypocrisy comes from not being transparent or showing upfront what  separates a true act of patriotism from paid advertisement, in regards to an out-of.-the -field institution,  amid being a legit institution... 

[LB3]

11 hours ago, Billl said:

The same crybabies who couldn’t stay away last time won’t stay away this time either.  The NFL has already accounted for the fact that the boomer generation loves to shake their fists, but they can’t throw a punch.  For every fixed income snowflake they lose due to this, they stand to gain a millennial who has actual purchasing power for the next 40 years.  
 

Best get used to the new reality.  People in nursing homes don’t buy season tickets.  They’re now the target demographic for reverse mortgages, copper healing bracelets, “tactical” sunglasses, and cashing in IRAs for gold coins.

And the players don’t care what you say or do seven days a week.

This is interesting. I actually see football as a fading sport once it starts to count on millennial dollars. Too much toxic masculinity for my generation. 

[Billl]

27 minutes ago, BuffaLoko said:

Bill .... as in Buffalo Bill.... this beer is for you, great take! the hypocrisy comes from not being transparent or showing upfront what  separates a true act of patriotism from paid advertisement, in regards to an out-of.-the -field institution,  amid being a legit institution... 

Thanks (Bill is my IRL name as well, BTW) 

[BuffaLoko]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

Thanks (Bill is my IRL name as well, BTW) 

Great! that is a nice coincidence then,?

[SDS]

32 minutes ago, LB3 said:

This is interesting. I actually see football as a fading sport once it starts to count on millennial dollars. Too much toxic masculinity for my generation. 

 

I have one kid who couldn't care less about professional sports and one who will go to Ravens games. I don't sense a strong bond between younger fans and the game.

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, CaliBills said:

 

I am a veteran as well and served in the 2nd Gulf War and I completely agree with you.

 

Having the right to kneel (laydown, play hopscotch, whatever as long as it is not violent or unwanted harm on others) is why I served this country.  

 

I see plenty of ignorant posts on this thread and I would like to think that the ignorant ones are not veterans that actually were willing to put their differences aside and fight for this country (agreeing with the fight or not).

 

I will say, that our politics, this two party system, is going to end our society as we know it.  It happened to the Roman Republic and it will happen to us.  There is a reason George Washington warned about the two party system. It is designed to divide the people. 

 

 

 

 

 

What actually happened in Rome, and it's relevant to current developments in the US, is that what came to be the executive branch eventually destroyed the Roman Republic and the essentially democratic framework of principles upon which it was founded (but only after a very bloody civil war). The executive was represented by autocratic strongmen, beginning with Sulla through Julius Caesar and culminating in Caesar Augustus. 

As the undisputed world superpower, the US is the third Rome (first there is the original, then there was the British Empire, and now this). 

Edited June 10, 2020 by starrymessenger

[LB3]

21 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

I have one kid who couldn't care less about professional sports and one who will go to Ravens games. I don't sense a strong bond between younger fans and the game.

Anecdotally, this is what I've seen. They'll tag along with dad to a game for a day of laughs and fun, but they're not actively looking to go to games themselves and spend their own money. One of my friends actually makes his son leave his phone in the car so that he's not constantly checking his fantasy stats or snap chatting.

[BarleyNY]

23 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The NFL itself politicises the game with all of its salute to service events etc. It is rich of them to then complain when the players politicise it for the causes they support. 

 

As for what do I want as a fan.... I believe that once something is a multi million dollar industry (let alone a multi billion dollar industry) then it is inevitably political in some sense. Politics, sport, money and power. Four sides of the same square. 

 I don’t know if this is common knowledge or not, but the armed forces almost always pay for the salute to service stuff at NFL games.  They are literally just paid advertisements.  

23 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral.

 

In case it has not been mentioned, forcing people who are otherwise able to ignore a big problem or issue to confront the issue is the point of these protests (and pretty much every other protest ever).  The fact that some people typically are able to opt out of having to deal with the issues at hand because they don’t directly affect them is why this protest has come to the sports you love.

 

Edited for clarity and grammar 

Edited June 10, 2020 by BarleyNY

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

55 minutes ago, LB3 said:

Anecdotally, this is what I've seen. They'll tag along with dad to a game for a day of laughs and fun, but they're not actively looking to go to games themselves and spend their own money. One of my friends actually makes his son leave his phone in the car so that he's not constantly checking his fantasy stats or snap chatting.

I’m trying to get off my phone more but when your in 3 FFL’s for a total of 1,200$$$ it’s hard not to look at your phone.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, LB3 said:

Anecdotally, this is what I've seen. They'll tag along with dad to a game for a day of laughs and fun, but they're not actively looking to go to games themselves and spend their own money. One of my friends actually makes his son leave his phone in the car so that he's not constantly checking his fantasy stats or snap chatting.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/episodes/football

 

Both podcasts are interesting but the Ghosts of Football Future touches on the decline in interest among the younger generation.  E-Sports/video games is pointed to again and again as a leading cause of waning participation by youth coaches.  There are more options for entertainment today.  Less kids playing football and other sports means less interest in the pro game.

[CuseBill]

If anyone is interested in a great, well-written book about the intersection between sports and politics, read "Something In The Air" by Richard Hoffer.  It is about the 1968 Mexico City Olympics (remember the Tommie Smith and John Carlos raised fist salute on the podium?).   It gives an interesting historical perspective on what we are all talking about here, set in a year which was about as turbulent as it gets, and gives great insights into what it is like to be an athlete in politically tumultuous times.

[Coach Tuesday]

“We will protest quietly, in the most inoffensive way possible, on our own time and in a manner that draws no attention to ourselves.  We want everyone to be completely comfortable at all times, and we will ask only ordinary people, not celebrities or other influentials, to take part.”

 

- said no successful protest, ever 

 

EDIT:  the Boston Tea Party disrespected the Crown.  Should the colonists have done something less offensive to show their anger at taxation without adequate representation?

 

EDIT 2:  Maybe the problem isn't politics in sports, it's sports in politics.  People treat politics like they're rooting for sports teams, against other teams.  The "don't disrespect the flag" crowd acts like THEY'RE the flag being disrespected - like they're on "Team Flag," and that someone who silently kneels during the Anthem is somehow protesting THEM.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

 I don’t know if this is common knowledge or not, but the armed forces almost always pay for the salute to service stuff at NFL games.  They are literally just paid advertisements.  

 

It is irrelevant to the point though. If you allow the military to hold PR rallies at your event that choice is in itself political. Any advertising choices the NFL makes are political to an extent.... but most of them are not arms of the state. Most of them don't take their orders, ultimately, from politicians. I don't have any problem with the NFL behaving in that way, but once you open to door to those sorts of political decisions (even with ultimately a financial motive) it is very difficult to say politics must stay out. 

[GreggTX]

23 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral.

 

 

You're very fortunate to be apolitical. Others are not so fortunate. They can't ignore the things that impinge their rights and safety any more than you can turn a blind eye to your home being burned down. This is a sign of white privilege. I'm not remotely suggesting that you are a racist. I take your words at face value.

 

Try to understand that for some people, racism has brought terrible injustice and fear in every aspect of their lives. To hear players, coaches and commentators address such important issues seems like a very small price to pay and it won't put the slightest dent in my enjoyment of the game. In fact, I think it's very reassuring.

[Alphadawg7]

On 6/9/2020 at 10:23 AM, OutOfBubbleGum said:

What is everyone's opinion? Should politics be kept out of the NFL? My opinion is yes, keep it out. For starters, after a long week of working and seeing the news, I personally want to escape from all of that outside influence and relax watching football. I do not care who is sitting next to me at a football game, from any walk of life, I just want to watch the game and high five. Yet when things become political, the game isn't as enjoyable. My opinion is sports and sports teams should be like Switzerland and be neutral.

 

 

While I agree to some degree with your "why", let me tell you why I think you should reconsider somewhat in my honest opinion...

1. Sports were made political by the forcing of the National Anthem decades ago that has nothing to do with sports at all, and still contains oppressive lyrics to those of color.  
   1. You want no politics and sports then remove the national anthem from all sporting events and find a new way to open up games that doesn't contain a political message.  For as long as the National Anthem is played, sports will always...literally always...have a political connection.
2. We are inherently a really, for a lack of better word, STUPID society that is heavily influenced by shiny objects and celebrity.  What I mean by that is simple...as a society, we NEVER elect the most qualified candidates for anything.  Our votes trend to those who have a charisma or some other draw.  We live in a country where the great candidates the Republican Party had were defeated by a man long known for corruption, lying, sexual assault, etc who was a reality TV star and many times over failed business man.  On the democratic side, both in 2016 and 2020 we let a woman no one trusted, with controversy following her and her husband for decades rise to the top of the list and in 2020 we had a deep roster of some really good candidates get over shadowed by a guy with his own skeletons in his closet regarding sexual misconduct, questionable policies on his resume, and who has quite honestly losing his mind a bit with his very old age.  SO...where am I going with this.  Because we are such a HIGHLY influenced society by news, social media, and even fake news...its become even more important for those with influence in those arenas to speak up for whats right and wrong because we as a society keep burying our heads at the facts in front of us, and seem to only listen when those with influence speak up.  
3. I feel like people with ability to reach the masses have a certain responsibility to use that very very very rare podium that less than 1% of the people have at their disposal, to reach out and try and create the change we all know is needed but yet never do anything about.  What a waste to have that ability, to make a positive impact on this world and just let it slip past and just collect a check for their play on the field.  
4. I realize its a double edge sword, as not everyone with influence spreads a positive message or a proactive message.  But that shouldn't prevent us for letting those with something to say that we all need to hear who has the ability to reach the masses from speaking the truth.  And that includes, those who may have a message that you don't necessarily agree with, its still in all of our best interests to hear that message and hope that it spurs productive dialogue from both sides to try and better understand the different lenses we all see things though.  Without that dialogue, we might as well be a country with a dictator, with no freedom of speech...

Again, totally get your reasons...we all watch football for the love of the game, entertainment, fan hood, and even fantasy sports (again entertainment).  And keeping that separate from politics is a reasonable request in that regard.  But for as long as we are forced to politicize sports through the forced National Anthem and our politicians now campaigning on the reaction to it like Trump, it will never stop being blended with politics.  And thats just the truth.  

 

If Trump just shut up about it when Kap was doing it, then it NEVER would have been nearly as big of an issue as it was.  How do I know this?  When Mahmoud Abdul-Rahouf did it in the NBA, while there was initial outrage by those offended, it quickly went away and was no longer a major political point of contention.  With Kap and the kneeling, we are STILL here debating it 4 years later because Trump decided to make a huge deal out of it, openly admitting to Jerry Jones he only does because it was the ONLY thing he was seeing a boost in the polls from at that time.  He literally, factually, does not even know the lyrics to the song.  He doesnt care about whether you kneel or not...he is just fanning the emotions of his fan base, and that is it.  

 

So we also need the politicians, which in terms of the NFL currently its pretty much mostly republicans running for election (no offense to anyone thats a republican, but if you look at the list of politicians aggressively expressing their displeasure its predominantly republican candidates looking for the same voter base pop that Trump gets trolling this subject).  So it also needs to stop being politicized by them, which leads to the media also politicizing it, which further blends politics and sports together and essentially FORCES athletes to use their voice in politics.

 

Finally...reminder...simple solution.  Get rid of the National Anthem from sports...it never belonged there, was not written for that, and does not contain language that is inclusive to all in some of its lyrics.  But the reality is we all know NONE of the professional sports leagues, or at any level of that sport, will ever have the balls to remove the anthem from pregame play.  So, sadly...sports and politics will be forever intertwined.  

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

While I agree to some degree with your "why", let me tell you why I think you should reconsider somewhat in my honest opinion...

1. Sports were made political by the forcing of the National Anthem decades ago that has nothing to do with sports at all, and still contains oppressive lyrics to those of color.  
   1. You want no politics and sports then remove the national anthem from all sporting events and find a new way to open up games that doesn't contain a political message.  For as long as the National Anthem is played, sports will always...literally always...have a political connection.
2. We are inherently a really, for a lack of better word, STUPID society that is heavily influenced by shiny objects and celebrity.  What I mean by that is simple...as a society, we NEVER elect the most qualified candidates for anything.  Our votes trend to those who have a charisma or some other draw.  We live in a country where the great candidates the Republican Party had were defeated by a man long known for corruption, lying, sexual assault, etc who was a reality TV star and many times over failed business man.  On the democratic side, both in 2016 and 2020 we let a woman no one trusted, with controversy following her and her husband for decades rise to the top of the list and in 2020 we had a deep roster of some really good candidates get over shadowed by a guy with his own skeletons in his closet regarding sexual misconduct, questionable policies on his resume, and who has quite honestly losing his mind a bit with his very old age.  SO...where am I going with this.  Because we are such a HIGHLY influenced society by news, social media, and even fake news...its become even more important for those with influence in those arenas to speak up for whats right and wrong because we as a society keep burying our heads at the facts in front of us, and seem to only listen when those with influence speak up.  
3. I feel like people with ability to reach the masses have a certain responsibility to use that very very very rare podium that less than 1% of the people have at their disposal, to reach out and try and create the change we all know is needed but yet never do anything about.  What a waste to have that ability, to make a positive impact on this world and just let it slip past and just collect a check for their play on the field.  
4. I realize its a double edge sword, as not everyone with influence spreads a positive message or a proactive message.  But that shouldn't prevent us for letting those with something to say that we all need to hear who has the ability to reach the masses from speaking the truth.  And that includes, those who may have a message that you don't necessarily agree with, its still in all of our best interests to hear that message and hope that it spurs productive dialogue from both sides to try and better understand the different lenses we all see things though.  Without that dialogue, we might as well be a country with a dictator, with no freedom of speech...

Again, totally get your reasons...we all watch football for the love of the game, entertainment, fan hood, and even fantasy sports (again entertainment).  And keeping that separate from politics is a reasonable request in that regard.  But for as long as we are forced to politicize sports through the forced National Anthem and our politicians now campaigning on the reaction to it like Trump, it will never stop being blended with politics.  And thats just the truth.  

 

If Trump just shut up about it when Kap was doing it, then it NEVER would have been nearly as big of an issue as it was.  How do I know this?  When Mahmoud Abdul-Rahouf did it in the NBA, while there was initial outrage by those offended, it quickly went away and was no longer a major political point of contention.  With Kap and the kneeling, we are STILL here debating it 4 years later because Trump decided to make a huge deal out of it, openly admitting to Jerry Jones he only does because it was the ONLY thing he was seeing a boost in the polls from at that time.  He literally, factually, does not even know the lyrics to the song.  He doesnt care about whether you kneel or not...he is just fanning the emotions of his fan base, and that is it.  

 

So we also need the politicians, which in terms of the NFL currently its pretty much mostly republicans running for election (no offense to anyone thats a republican, but if you look at the list of politicians aggressively expressing their displeasure its predominantly republican candidates looking for the same voter base pop that Trump gets trolling this subject).  So it also needs to stop being politicized by them, which leads to the media also politicizing it, which further blends politics and sports together and essentially FORCES athletes to use their voice in politics.

 

Finally...reminder...simple solution.  Get rid of the National Anthem from sports...it never belonged there, was not written for that, and does not contain language that is inclusive to all in some of its lyrics.  But the reality is we all know NONE of the professional sports leagues, or at any level of that sport, will ever have the balls to remove the anthem from pregame play.  So, sadly...sports and politics will be forever intertwined.  

 

A short reply to a long post:  Why is the national anthem political.  It is what it is - a song about the country we live in.  It becomes political when people assign it values and people disagree on those values.

 

There are things we all, every person, can agree upon it seems to me.  Pride in the country we live would seem to be one of them.  I have had the opportunity to travel the world for my job and that pride is warranted.  I have seen poor areas that do not exist in the US.  Yes there are areas of opportunity and always will be but if you want to live free and have the opportunity to make a better life, there is no country better in the world.

 

I really don't care if the anthem is played or not.  Would prefer it so but not lose any sleep if stopped.  If that is removed then something else political will take its place.  The problems will not be solved but the people who want to divide and demote the country will be happy for 2 minutes then onto the next symbol.

[KD in CA]

I guess I don't know what 'keep politics out of the NFL'  really means.  Every business engages in politics in one way or another.  No reason for the NFL to not act like any number of other large businesses do when it comes to making social statements.   I don't see where there is much politics on display during the game.  And once off the field, athletes and other entertainers are entitled to their opinions like anyone else.

 

Because of their celebrity, those people have a much wider audience than most people, and yes, some people confuse having a wide audience with having an informed and intelligence opinion.   Of course, some of people who have a wide audience are informed and intelligent.  Some are not.  (Same with the people who don't have a wide audience).

But everyone has the choice to not listen if they don't wish to hear another's opinion, so if it bothers you, just tune in at kickoff and tune out at the final whistle and don't watch ESPN or follow social media.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

22 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

I guess I don't know what 'keep politics out of the NFL'  really means. 

 

It really means: “keep politics I don’t agree with out of the NFL.”

[ALF]

Just remove the National Anthem from NFL games ( I'm a veteran ) end controversy ,( I support BLM )

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is irrelevant to the point though. If you allow the military to hold PR rallies at your event that choice is in itself political. Any advertising choices the NFL makes are political to an extent.... but most of them are not arms of the state. Most of them don't take their orders, ultimately, from politicians. I don't have any problem with the NFL behaving in that way, but once you open to door to those sorts of political decisions (even with ultimately a financial motive) it is very difficult to say politics must stay out. 

 You are correct, of course.  I think that it’s good to understand the whole landscape though.