Buffalo Sabres & NHL 2020-2021

[Greg S]

7 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Ralph said he is the best breakaway guy on the team, at least in practice. 

 

And now the clock starts on the firing of Ralph Krueger. 

 

I say he will be here for the rest of the season and maybe into next as well!

 

The Sabres are a laughing stock.

 

 

 

 

 

Firing the coach wont do a thing. The Sabres need a true hockey person to run the entire ops. See Lou Lamoriello and NYI as an example of what can happen when a qualified person is in charge. Having Terry/Kim fire the GM/HC only to be in charge of hiring the next GM/HC means nothing. 

[May Day 10]

1 hour ago, Greg S said:

 

Firing the coach wont do a thing. The Sabres need a true hockey person to run the entire ops. See Lou Lamoriello and NYI as an example of what can happen when a qualified person is in charge. Having Terry/Kim fire the GM/HC only to be in charge of hiring the next GM/HC means nothing. 

 

This is where we are.

 

I dont know if it was Kruger who motivated them with some sort of efficiency in management philosophy, but they gutted the entire hockey department last Summer.  They also installed an internal hire for GM who has next to zero experience in kevyn Adams.  Even if you pretend he was observing and learning along the way:  He was observing and learning watching this organization and its failure and dysfunction.  Now we have a coach who has shown he has no clothes and is just a windbag of useless mental management jargon.  They promoted two barely intern-level employees to head up their scouting and analytics departments and expanded those roles to include much more (efficiency!)

 

Also, you have a group of players who quit for entire stretches of game(s).  There is something rotten there, they never appear as a team, the captain never goes out and takes lumps for them publicly.  You see the body language of someone like Staal on day 1.  Other things in the recent past as well.  Players who left that throw a little shade but stop just short.  Berglund quitting.  Players' performance falling off a cliff.  If you were a parent of a draftable 18 year old hockey player, would you ever want your kid drafted by the Sabres at this point?

 

 

This is such a heavy lift.  The entire organization is in shambles.  It needs to be fully rebuilt and redefined.  What they have now is not salvageable.  Look at what the Sabres are up against, just in their Division.  Boston and Tampa have 2 model front offices.  Toronto will be good for the forseeable future.  Florida got serious with Zito and Quenneville.  Detroit has Yzerman and a growing asset pool.  Ottawa is even looking healthier overall with more upside.

[Greg S]

7 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

This is where we are.

 

I dont know if it was Kruger who motivated them with some sort of efficiency in management philosophy, but they gutted the entire hockey department last Summer.  They also installed an internal hire for GM who has next to zero experience in kevyn Adams.  Even if you pretend he was observing and learning along the way:  He was observing and learning watching this organization and its failure and dysfunction.  Now we have a coach who has shown he has no clothes and is just a windbag of useless mental management jargon.  They promoted two barely intern-level employees to head up their scouting and analytics departments and expanded those roles to include much more (efficiency!)

 

Also, you have a group of players who quit for entire stretches of game(s).  There is something rotten there, they never appear as a team, the captain never goes out and takes lumps for them publicly.  You see the body language of someone like Staal on day 1.  Other things in the recent past as well.  Players who left that throw a little shade but stop just short.  Berglund quitting.  Players' performance falling off a cliff.  If you were a parent of a draftable 18 year old hockey player, would you ever want your kid drafted by the Sabres at this point?

 

 

This is such a heavy lift.  The entire organization is in shambles.  It needs to be fully rebuilt and redefined.  What they have now is not salvageable.  Look at what the Sabres are up against, just in their Division.  Boston and Tampa have 2 model front offices.  Toronto will be good for the forseeable future.  Florida got serious with Zito and Quenneville.  Detroit has Yzerman and a growing asset pool.  Ottawa is even looking healthier overall with more upside.

 

You just listed a bunch of reasons/examples as to why Terry/Kim need to find a true hockey person to run the show. Its the only way to turn this around. Its easy for me to state the obvious but the hard part is can Terry/Kim find that person. I am starting to think they got lucky with the hiring of Beane-McDermott. Its one of those...."even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" or "a broken clock is right twice a day" type of situations.

[May Day 10]

The McDermott thing is interesting.  I know the NFL helps guide these things.  Also, in the NFL, organizations have become Coach-centric where everything seems to radiate from the coach.  It is also simpler than an NHL team because you arent scouting apples to oranges 17 year olds around the world and developing them.  You also need to live with mistakes for the long-haul as the contracts are guaranteed.  NFL, you can turn over an entire roster and clear the cap in like 2 years and find a lot of immediate starters in the draft and UFA.  NHL is so much more of a long-haul asset management game.

 

 

I think the Pegulas tried to replicate the McDermott structure with Kruger which is absolutely impossible and doomed to fail.  They absolutely have distrust of outsiders for some reason and feel the need to create this "lines of communication" brand of front office.  Its basically the Bills of the 00s post-Donahoe.  The talk of trading Eichel (or anybody) without any sort of amateur or pro scouting system gives me indigestion.

 

 

I think it is quite easy to find a president of hockey ops.  I can name 3 of them who are available.  Any one would like to do it as long as the $ is fair and the Pegulas vow to stay out of the way and provide decent budget parameters.  Rick Dudley, Dean Lombardi, and Jim Rutherford.  I am also sure there are plenty of people available to the Pegulas who would give a blunt assessment of the situation and provide some ideas.  

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by May Day 10

[SinceThe70s]

8 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

You just listed a bunch of reasons/examples as to why Terry/Kim need to find a true hockey person to run the show. Its the only way to turn this around. Its easy for me to state the obvious but the hard part is can Terry/Kim find that person. I am starting to think they got lucky with the hiring of Beane-McDermott. Its one of those...."even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" or "a broken clock is right twice a day" type of situations.

 

I know you're an Isles fan (#metoo) - and apologies to Sabres fans if the perception is I'm turning this into an Isles thread - but do you think the Isles ownership was a blind squirrel when they hired Lou? How about Trotz? At the very least we lucked into that hire. Who lets their Stanley Cup winning coach walk? I think finding the right guys is easier said than done. 

 

Interesting parallels between the Bills, Sabres and Isles. From the outside looking in the Sabres have a lot of talented players but right now are a train wreck. McBeane came in and made some unpopular moves unloading talented players and managed to turn it around (granted Josh's ascension was a huge factor). When Lou/Trotz came in they lost their marquee player to free agency and replaced him with Filppula, Komarov and Kuhnackl - not exactly household names but the next year the Isles were markedly better and have been ever since.

 

I don't know the first thing about Kevyn Adams except the Pegulas just hired him.  But (again) from the outside looking in the coach looks like he's lost the locker room so as a next step I'd take a page out of the Bills playbook and can Kruger like they did with Ryan when it was obvious it wasn't working.

[May Day 10]

I think Lamoriello and Trotz are as far from a 'lucky hire' as you can get.  

 

Adams is a GM they promoted from within, probably to maintain their and their coach's influence.  He has zero experience, not even as an AGM, director of scouting... anything.  He is basically our Garth Snow hire in terms of the Islanders.

 

 

[Greg S]

8 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

I know you're an Isles fan (#metoo) - and apologies to Sabres fans if the perception is I'm turning this into an Isles thread - but do you think the Isles ownership was a blind squirrel when they hired Lou? How about Trotz? At the very least we lucked into that hire. Who lets their Stanley Cup winning coach walk? I think finding the right guys is easier said than done. 

 

Interesting parallels between the Bills, Sabres and Isles. From the outside looking in the Sabres have a lot of talented players but right now are a train wreck. McBeane came in and made some unpopular moves unloading talented players and managed to turn it around (granted Josh's ascension was a huge factor). When Lou/Trotz came in they lost their marquee player to free agency and replaced him with Filppula, Komarov and Kuhnackl - not exactly household names but the next year the Isles were markedly better and have been ever since.

 

I don't know the first thing about Kevyn Adams except the Pegulas just hired him.  But (again) from the outside looking in the coach looks like he's lost the locker room so as a next step I'd take a page out of the Bills playbook and can Kruger like they did with Ryan when it was obvious it wasn't working.

 

Quick answer on the Isles is their owners L&M (Jon Ledecky & Scott Malkin) are the best thing to happen to the them. They got the new arena in Belmont being built which is coming along great. Hiring of Lou Lamoriello and Barry Trotz have completely turned the organization around. The Sabres(Terry/Kim) really should follow the Isles lead. Closer to home the Bills are another example of what happens when quality people are in charge. The Pegula's see what happens when you have the right people in charge (Bills) so why they can't or won't do the same for the Sabres is odd. 

[SinceThe70s]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You can be a blind squirrel and know that everything Lou Lamoriello touches turns to gold.... I mean the guy who had absolutely 0 clue about basketball hired what is now one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time in Rick Pitino. 
 

He was an absolute no brainer hire....I don’t think he had any interest in the Sabres job and I’m not sure the Sabres had any interest(which is ridiculous but not surprising). When a guy like Lamoriello is available and your franchise is a tire fire you do everything possible to woo him. 

 

Totally agree. My biggest fear for the Isles going forward is Lou's health.

 

The blind squirrel was referencing whether the Isles lucked into him. That team has been a joke for way too long with a bad owner (Wang).  I was surprised when he agreed to come to a team with a bad 30 year run and no arena.

3 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Quick answer on the Isles is their owners L&M (Jon Ledecky & Scott Malkin) are the best thing to happen to the them. They got the new arena in Belmont being built which is coming along great. Hiring of Lou Lamoriello and Barry Trotz have completely turned the organization around. The Sabres(Terry/Kim) really should follow the Isles lead. Closer to home the Bills are another example of what happens when quality people are in charge. The Pegula's see what happens when you have the right people in charge (Bills) so why they can't or won't do the same for the Sabres is odd. 

 

Agreed but my question is whether you think L&M were blind squirrels in landing Lou and Trotz since you think the Pegulas got lucky with McBeane. 

[May Day 10]

2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Totally agree. My biggest fear for the Isles going forward is Lou's health.

 

The blind squirrel was referencing whether the Isles lucked into him. That team has been a joke for way too long with a bad owner (Wang).  I was surprised when he agreed to come to a team with a bad 30 year run and no arena.

 

It comes down to what the owners are willing to provide as far as autonomy and budget.  

 

He wouldnt come to the Sabres not because he hates Buffalo and we dont have a downtown club scene.  He wouldnt come here with the Pegulas telling him what to do, who to have as a head coach, etc. 

 

If the Pegulas gave the keys to someone, they absolutely can hire whoever they want.  

 

That is likely what Ledecky and Malkin did to get Lou.  They were clearly serious about winning hockey games and were willing to give Lou the space needed to make it happen.

 

In Buffalo, we would get, you can be the GM, but you have to keep Adams on as co-gm because he is educated and we think he is an authentic guy, is college educated, played in the NHL and is from Buffalo.  We also hire the coach who reports directly to us.  You also need to have a phone conversation with ownership daily as does the head coach.   

[Greg S]

11 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said:

 

Totally agree. My biggest fear for the Isles going forward is Lou's health.

 

The blind squirrel was referencing whether the Isles lucked into him. That team has been a joke for way too long with a bad owner (Wang).  I was surprised when he agreed to come to a team with a bad 30 year run and no arena.

 

Agreed but my question is whether you think L&M were blind squirrels in landing Lou and Trotz since you think the Pegulas got lucky with McBeane. 

 

Is seems like L&M know what they are doing. They asked permission from the Leafs to interview Lou when he was working for them. I believe they(Leafs) wanted Lou to stay on as an advisor but wanted ( I forget who it was) to be the GM. L&M were willing to give Lou control of the hockey ops which is why Lou agreed to come here. I can't answer on the Pegula's. Looking at it from the outside it looks like the Pegula's are good owners in NFL but horrible NHL owners. Which is weird but if ownership is bad then its bad. If its good then its good. The Pegula's have managed to be both good and bad owners which is rare.

[BillsFan4]

I’m proud of myself. I did not watch the game yesterday, even when I saw they were up 3-1 (and I’m glad I didn’t)!
 

I’ve pretty much lost all interest at this point, which feels weird because hockey was always my favorite sport. I mean, I watched every single game even through the tank years. But at least then we had hope (of high draft picks and better days in the future). Now I have no hope for this team and I don’t see things getting better any time soon.

 

About the only thing they could do to draw me back into this season would be to hire someone like Bruce Boudreau.

[SinceThe70s]

15 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Is seems like L&M know what they are doing. They asked permission from the Leafs to interview Lou when he was working for them. I believe they(Leafs) wanted Lou to stay on as an advisor but wanted ( I forget who it was) to be the GM. L&M were willing to give Lou control of the hockey ops which is why Lou agreed to come here. I can't answer on the Pegula's. Looking at it from the outside it looks like the Pegula's are good owners in NFL but horrible NHL owners. Which is weird but if ownership is bad then its bad. If its good then its good. The Pegula's have managed to be both good and bad owners which is rare.

 

That's the part I find interesting. I could easily argue that the Pegula's hiring the unknown of McBeane is more impressive than the Isles hiring the known commodity of Lou/Trotz. @May Day 10 made a good point about the amount of control the Pegulas are willing to cede to their staff.  But then look at Wang who knew nothing about hockey and gave the keys to the car to Milbury. What a disaster that was! I'm reminded every time I see Chara on the ice 

[The Jokeman]

Bring in Rutherford to be a hockey czar aka over see the team as a whole asap so we can be prepared for the expansion draft and all that follows.

[TBBills]

Was so worried when they were up 3-1...

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

Was so worried when they were up 3-1...

We might as well go back to cheering for the Sabres.

 

A coaching change isn't coming.

 

 

[TBBills]

35 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

We might as well go back to cheering for the Sabres.

 

A coaching change isn't coming.

 

 

Nope, all about complete failure of this team now. That is all that is left.

[BillsFan4]

19 hours ago, TBBills said:

Nope, all about complete failure of this team now. That is all that is left.

🤢🤮

 

I’ll never root for them to fail again. Especially a “complete failure” (which sounds bad). All of the failing has done too much damage.

I don’t want to see Eichel demand out. I don’t want to see Dahlin and all our other young players continue to be ruined by all the losing. I don’t want to see all these guys spirits just absolutely broken. It’s honestly difficult to watch. This team is killing so many players and fans love for the game and it’s painful to see.

 

Nothing good has come from all the losing. 

 

And this draft sucks *** anyway. There’s not even a top player. There’s like 5-10 different guys you could argue could be drafted #1. 
 

What are we even rooting for with the losing? Adams getting fired? Krueger getting fired? What gives you confidence that they’ll replace him with anyone better (and don’t say “well Anyone would be better” because that’s not true, as we’ve seen ourselves. We always think the next guy can’t be worse and he is.).

 

 

I suggest indifference, instead. 😂

[BillsFan4]

 

This short clip in the tweet is a Good listen. Our former captains were dead on. Krueger looks in over his head and The void in leadership has been a big issue since this rebuild started.

 

If you want to listen to the entire interview, the part of the podcast with Tim Graham starts about 20mins in.

 

Heres the article with our former captains:

https://theathletic.com/2426679/2021/03/05/former-sabres-captains-weigh-in-on-teams-woes-a-whole-new-kind-of-unwatchable/
Former Sabres captains weigh in on team’s woes: ‘A whole new kind of unwatchable’

(athletic sub. req)

Edited March 11, 2021 by BillsFan4

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

🤢🤮

 

I’ll never root for them to fail again. Especially a “complete failure” (which sounds bad). All of the failing has done too much damage.

I don’t want to see Eichel demand out. I don’t want to see Dahlin and all our other young players continue to be ruined by all the losing. I don’t want to see all these guys spirits just absolutely broken. It’s honestly difficult to watch. This team is killing so many players and fans love for the game and it’s painful to see.

 

Nothing good has come from all the losing. 

 

And this draft sucks *** anyway. There’s not even a top player. There’s like 5-10 different guys you could argue could be drafted #1. 
 

What are we even rooting for with the losing? Adams getting fired? Krueger getting fired? What gives you confidence that they’ll replace him with anyone better (and don’t say “well Anyone would be better” because that’s not true, as we’ve seen ourselves. We always think the next guy can’t be worse and he is.).

 

 

I suggest indifference, instead. 😂

I don't know how any fan of Buffalo sports who has paid attention to the Bills and Sabres the last 20 years can think things can't get worse. Like theres a lower limit to sucking. Things can always get worse and they usually do when rash decisions are made under the mistaken idea that things cannot get any worse.

[billsfanmiamioh]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I don't know how any fan of Buffalo sports who has paid attention to the Bills and Sabres the last 20 years can think things can't get worse. Like theres a lower limit to sucking. Things can always get worse and they usually do when rash decisions are made under the mistaken idea that things cannot get any worse.

I guess the difference is that if it’s worse than now I don’t really care. It’s already pretty much unwatchable.