Nextmanup Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 4 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: Draft picks from 2013 to 2017. In theory, these are the "mature" players who should be currently leading this team. Bold = Currently playing for Sabres 2013 1 8 Rasmus Ristolainen 2013 1 16 Nikita Zadorov 2013 2 35 J. T. Compher 2013 2 38 Connor Hurley 2013 2 52 Justin Bailey 2013 3 69 Nicholas Baptiste 2013 5 129 Cal Petersen 2013 5 130 Gustav Possler 2013 5 143 Anthony Florentino 2013 6 159 Sean Malone 2013 7 189 Eric Locke 2014 1 2 Sam Reinhart 2014 2 31 Brendan Lemieux 2014 2 44 Eric Cornel 2014 2 49 Vaclav Karabacek 2014 3 61 Jonas Johansson 2014 3 74 Brycen Martin 2014 5 121 Maxwell Willman 2014 6 151 Christopher Brown 2014 7 181 Victor Olofsson 2015 1 2 Jack Eichel 2015 2 51 Brendan Guhle 2015 4 92 Will Borgen 2015 5 122 Devante Stephens 2015 6 152 Giorgio Estephan 2015 7 182 Ivan Chukarov 2016 1 8 Alexander Nylander 2016 2 33 Rasmus Asplund 2016 3 69 Cliff Pu 2016 3 86 Casey Fitzgerald 2016 4 99 Brett Murray 2016 5 129 Philip Nyberg 2016 5 130 Vojtech Budik 2016 6 159 Brandon Hagel 2016 7 189 Austin Osmanski 2016 7 190 Vasily Glotov 2017 1 8 Casey Mittelstadt 2017 2 37 Marcus Davidsson 2017 2 54 Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen 2017 3 89 Oskari Laaksonen 2017 4 99 Jacob Bryson 2017 7 192 Linus Weissbach You can see how much they have "whiffed" on their drafting. You can see why they made a wholesale termination of the entire scounting department not long ago. Our top picks year in and year out just don't hit. Mittelstadt is a bust too so is JJ. Risto is terrible and always has been, and you might consider him one of the successes. Hell, Reinhart was a miss! Should have taken Draisaitl instead. And Reinhart is one of the few good players on the team. Last night in the post-game show, Paul Hamilton went off on a tear basically stating the team does not have anything close to the talent level people say it has, or think it has. I agree with him. Just now, ScottLaw said: The Sabres are just a cancer from the inside out. Its rubbing off on Eichel.... looks like he may be the scape goat and on his way out. Pegulas are just a disaster with the Sabres. Incredibly incompetent. It all starts with the Pegulas! It has to when it's this bad for this long. Can you imagine not making the playoffs for 10 straight years? In a league where the entire system is rigged for almost all the teams to make the playoffs most of the time? It's similar to what the Bills were looking at with 17 years of no playoffs. It is NOT EASY to do something like that! Quote
May Day 10 Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Nextmanup said: You can see why they made a wholesale termination of the entire scounting department not long ago. Our top picks year in and year out just don't hit. Mittelstadt is a bust too so is JJ. Risto is terrible and always has been, and you might consider him one of the successes. Hell, Reinhart was a miss! Should have taken Draisaitl instead. And Reinhart is one of the few good players on the team. Last night in the post-game show, Paul Hamilton went off on a tear basically stating the team does not have anything close to the talent level people say it has, or think it has. I agree with him. Its one thing to gut the scouting department... and yet another to not replace anybody and go at it with nothing but a barebones crew of extreme inexperience. Development mis-steps and asset management are also to blame. Its organizational failure. 1 Quote
Jauronimo Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Mittelstadt is a bust too so is JJ. Risto is terrible and always has been, and you might consider him one of the successes. Ristolainen is the best defenseman on the team and Mitts is actually looking like an NHL player these days. Quote
oldmanfan Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 Pegulas are the owners, they bear responsibility for the hires they made. With Kruger and Adams I think they want a pair that focuses on process and accountability like they have with the Bills. Whether they are the two is open to question. When do players accept accountability? I’ve watched the Sabres since 1970 and I’ve never seen a team with less heart. Coaches can do so much; when do players look within themselves. If I’m Terry I have Rick Dudley on the phone and ask him for an outside appraisal. 2 Quote
K-9 Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 5 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said: Draft picks from 2013 to 2017. In theory, these are the "mature" players who should be currently leading this team. Bold = Currently playing for Sabres 2013 1 8 Rasmus Ristolainen 2013 1 16 Nikita Zadorov 2013 2 35 J. T. Compher 2013 2 38 Connor Hurley 2013 2 52 Justin Bailey 2013 3 69 Nicholas Baptiste 2013 5 129 Cal Petersen 2013 5 130 Gustav Possler 2013 5 143 Anthony Florentino 2013 6 159 Sean Malone 2013 7 189 Eric Locke 2014 1 2 Sam Reinhart 2014 2 31 Brendan Lemieux 2014 2 44 Eric Cornel 2014 2 49 Vaclav Karabacek 2014 3 61 Jonas Johansson 2014 3 74 Brycen Martin 2014 5 121 Maxwell Willman 2014 6 151 Christopher Brown 2014 7 181 Victor Olofsson 2015 1 2 Jack Eichel 2015 2 51 Brendan Guhle 2015 4 92 Will Borgen 2015 5 122 Devante Stephens 2015 6 152 Giorgio Estephan 2015 7 182 Ivan Chukarov 2016 1 8 Alexander Nylander 2016 2 33 Rasmus Asplund 2016 3 69 Cliff Pu 2016 3 86 Casey Fitzgerald 2016 4 99 Brett Murray 2016 5 129 Philip Nyberg 2016 5 130 Vojtech Budik 2016 6 159 Brandon Hagel 2016 7 189 Austin Osmanski 2016 7 190 Vasily Glotov 2017 1 8 Casey Mittelstadt 2017 2 37 Marcus Davidsson 2017 2 54 Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen 2017 3 89 Oskari Laaksonen 2017 4 99 Jacob Bryson 2017 7 192 Linus Weissbach You can see how much they have "whiffed" on their drafting. The complete incompetence at identifying, drafting, and developing talent is the overriding factor in the failure of this team; more so even than the crappy trades made over the years. Quote
Jauronimo Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 41 minutes ago, K-9 said: The complete incompetence at identifying, drafting, and developing talent is the overriding factor in the failure of this team; more so even than the crappy trades made over the years. This is about as hopeless as its felt over this stretch of futility. 1 Quote
K-9 Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: This is about as hopeless as its felt over this stretch of futility. Agree entirely. They’ve finally managed to suck the last ounce of joy I once had for the game of hockey. Tickets will not be renewed as a result. Can’t say we didn’t give it our all as fans over the years, but enough is enough. Quote
May Day 10 Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 I tossed my season tickets of 20 years before last season was up. I was never this hopeless as a bills fan through the drought. There is no realistic way out of this unless the Pegulas do a 180 and go against most things they have said publicly. It is going to get worse, which is tough to imagine how, but it will. Quote
Rockpile233 Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 2 hours ago, May Day 10 said: I tossed my season tickets of 20 years before last season was up. I was never this hopeless as a bills fan through the drought. There is no realistic way out of this unless the Pegulas do a 180 and go against most things they have said publicly. It is going to get worse, which is tough to imagine how, but it will. I definitely agree it feels much more hopeless. I could always trick myself into getting invested in Bills teams I knew weren’t very good. This team just plays in a way that elicits absolutely no emotion for me. The series of bad hires and terrible draft picks is well known at this point, but I definitely put a lot of the blame on this group of players, especially the ones who’ve been around. I understand Risto has played some of his best hockey this year, Reinhart is actually a pretty solid player, and Eichel is a proven elite point producer, but I honestly believe all three should be gone by next season. Think a radical shakeup needs to take place, this team has been lifeless too long 1 Quote
May Day 10 Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Remember that 10 game winning streak a couple years ago? 😅 You knew the Sabres were in trouble with Pegula’s cluelessness on display when he cited that winning streak in the offseason like it meant something.... When I think back to that streak I remember botterill speaking during the collapse. He was trying to defend staying the course with Housley and he actually said that he/they knew the team wasn't that good during the streak. I was shocked. Couldn't imagine why the players quit on them. Such a loser attitude and it transcends coaches and general managers at this point. Like now how they pretend everything is great and this team is still on the path while winning 4 games in 21 Quote
Jauronimo Posted March 3, 2021 Posted March 3, 2021 6 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: When I think back to that streak I remember botterill speaking during the collapse. He was trying to defend staying the course with Housley and he actually said that he/they knew the team wasn't that good during the streak. I was shocked. Couldn't imagine why the players quit on them. Such a loser attitude and it transcends coaches and general managers at this point. Like now how they pretend everything is great and this team is still on the path while winning 4 games in 21 I don't think it was any secret among observers of that streak that the way we were winning was not sustainable. So many OT wins, last minute goals, getting outshot and outplayed. However, I don't think anyone could have predicted just how far we would fall from at one point, being first in the league in points. Quote
BADOLBILZ Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Sure, but regardless of that. The fact that the Pegulas publicly stated they were on the right track and then pointed to that 10 game win streak as an example just exemplifies how clueless they are.... the team was a disaster down the stretch of that season. It was moronic to cite that winning streak as if it meant anything.....thankfully they got lucky with Beane/McDermott. Just gotta hope they continue to stay out of their way and those guys can figure out how to get Buffalo a Championship. I heard Paul Hamilton on WGR the other day literally say that the Pegula's gave up full control to McDermott and Beane and he knew that they now REGRET giving all that power away........so don't expect them to do the same with the Sabres. Quote
BillsPride12 Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I heard Paul Hamilton on WGR the other day literally say that the Pegula's gave up full control to McDermott and Beane and he knew that they now REGRET giving all that power away........so don't expect them to do the same with the Sabres. If that is true..that is shocking to me...you would think they would feel the exact opposite since the Bills just made it to the AFC championship game Quote
Greg S Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I heard Paul Hamilton on WGR the other day literally say that the Pegula's gave up full control to McDermott and Beane and he knew that they now REGRET giving all that power away........so don't expect them to do the same with the Sabres. If that is true then the Pegula's are idiots. How dare Beane and McDermott go out and build a team that won 13 games and the division. How dare they get this team to the AFCCG. How dare they build a team that has league wide respect and is considered one of the favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl with a good chance of winning it next season. As for the Sabres the Pegula's need to do one of two things. Sell the team and just focus on the Bills. Bring in someone who knows what they are doing and let them run the team. They may not want to give up control but seeing how well the Bills are doing they might want to do the same for the Sabres. It has to be the right hire. See how the Isles have fared with Lou Lamoriello and Barry Trotz in charge. It wasn't that long ago when the Isles were struggling just as badly as the Sabres are now. Quote
Greg S Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: You don't have to be some sort of sports intellect to know that the Pegulas are "idiots" when it comes to sports.... just listen to them talk about their teams. They are clueless.😅 Just have to keep your fingers crossed they stay out of the way on the Bills side of things. The perfect example for the Pegula's to follow is Robert Kraft. He lets Bill run the show and has been rewarded with a dynasty over the past 20 years. Kraft does nothing except sign the checks and watch the games in his press box. Terry should do the same expect he might want to avoid getting his "Jimmy" waxed in massage parlors like Kraft likes to do. I doubt Kim would stand for any of that. Quote
May Day 10 Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: You don't have to be some sort of sports intellect to know that the Pegulas are "idiots" when it comes to sports.... just listen to them talk about their teams. They are clueless.😅 Just have to keep your fingers crossed they stay out of the way on the Bills side of things. That's just it. I hesitate to just blanket them with the 'idiot' label... I mean, they have several billion dollars in assets. The way they have run the Sabres, and how stubborn they have been is nothing short of comical. Just hire a team President and don't get in his way. Nobody needs to hear your 'exchange of ideas'. Terry Pegula sounds like a low information sports fan, and I never believed the huge Sabres fan origin story. When he speaks he sounds like the low information guy in a group watching a game who keeps making dumb or overly simplistic comments and everyone else rolls their eyes. The over-arching pattern with this team is they always chase former high 1st round draft picks, even if they are busted out. No rhyme or reason other than that. Its crazy to think of the inexperience and ineptitude there is running the Sabres with next to no scouting, training, or development staff. We have the Pegulas, Kruger, and Adams in a model where both Kruger and Adams report directly to the owners. That doesnt work in the NHL. They took over this team and the city was still all about the Sabres. There was a locked-in STH waiting list and they were relatively healthy as an organization. They have bungled it in so many ways, and there is nobody/nothing else to blame. If they would just let someone with experience do their job... Sabres fans would still give the Pegulas a mountain of credit, it would be more 'fun' to run the team (although they wouldnt be intimately involved on many decisions), the team would be profitable, they wouldnt be besieged by the media local and nationally, etc... I dont get it. How is this fun? And dont think the Bills are safe in any way. I think they are very susceptible for a "Linda Bogdan" moment. 1 Quote
ALF Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 23 hours ago, 4merper4mer said: Skinner’s “style of play” was as conducive to helping a winning franchise as a Jackrabbit’s “style of running” would be to winning marathons. He's not worth having for 40 goals at his style of play at $9M a year ? Quote
BADOLBILZ Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 13 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Yikes that’s ridiculous. You’d think they’d realize their own incompetence.... Its not going to be an easy road if they ever have to hire a new HC/GM again.... I’d expect more Rex like hires and incompetence than what they’ve lucked into with McBeane. When I heard that it occurred to me that we are taking for granted with the Bills that there will be team success and peace among ownership and management and highest paid players............just because it makes sense. I think it's much easier to look good as an owner in the NFL because the league really promotes parity and they are true partners in that they help each other everywhere except on the field. It's set up to allow a kooky screwball like Mark Davis to take over his dad's Raiders and fail into success............so it's a perfect place for any ownership group that doesn't know what it doesn't know. The NHL is a bit more "every team for itself" so it's concerning that the Sabres are the worst organization in hockey every year. 1 Quote
snafu Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 48 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: That's just it. I hesitate to just blanket them with the 'idiot' label... I mean, they have several billion dollars in assets. The way they have run the Sabres, and how stubborn they have been is nothing short of comical. Just hire a team President and don't get in his way. Nobody needs to hear your 'exchange of ideas'. Terry Pegula sounds like a low information sports fan, and I never believed the huge Sabres fan origin story. When he speaks he sounds like the low information guy in a group watching a game who keeps making dumb or overly simplistic comments and everyone else rolls their eyes. The over-arching pattern with this team is they always chase former high 1st round draft picks, even if they are busted out. No rhyme or reason other than that. Its crazy to think of the inexperience and ineptitude there is running the Sabres with next to no scouting, training, or development staff. We have the Pegulas, Kruger, and Adams in a model where both Kruger and Adams report directly to the owners. That doesnt work in the NHL. They took over this team and the city was still all about the Sabres. There was a locked-in STH waiting list and they were relatively healthy as an organization. They have bungled it in so many ways, and there is nobody/nothing else to blame. If they would just let someone with experience do their job... Sabres fans would still give the Pegulas a mountain of credit, it would be more 'fun' to run the team (although they wouldnt be intimately involved on many decisions), the team would be profitable, they wouldnt be besieged by the media local and nationally, etc... I dont get it. How is this fun? And dont think the Bills are safe in any way. I think they are very susceptible for a "Linda Bogdan" moment. This is spot on. The ownership (a) doesn't want to spend on scouting and development (b) doesn't want to spend on front office personnel (c) doesn't want to give up control of a team that they have shown to know nothing about. (a)+(b)+(c) = cheap with important decisions. Sure, they'll throw money at free agents, but that doesn't make them *not* cheap when it comes to the Sabres. The result is that they're bleeding longtime fans and when the arena can open up to full capacity someday, they're going to find out that people have noted their incompetence and failure to spend money on the entire organization -- which is what this team desperately needs. Ownership is simply not committed to this team. And I'd wager that the players can see it. It bleeds into the on-ice performance. Quote
BillsVet Posted March 4, 2021 Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, May Day 10 said: That's just it. I hesitate to just blanket them with the 'idiot' label... I mean, they have several billion dollars in assets. The way they have run the Sabres, and how stubborn they have been is nothing short of comical. Just hire a team President and don't get in his way. Nobody needs to hear your 'exchange of ideas'. Terry Pegula sounds like a low information sports fan, and I never believed the huge Sabres fan origin story. When he speaks he sounds like the low information guy in a group watching a game who keeps making dumb or overly simplistic comments and everyone else rolls their eyes. The over-arching pattern with this team is they always chase former high 1st round draft picks, even if they are busted out. No rhyme or reason other than that. Its crazy to think of the inexperience and ineptitude there is running the Sabres with next to no scouting, training, or development staff. We have the Pegulas, Kruger, and Adams in a model where both Kruger and Adams report directly to the owners. That doesnt work in the NHL. They took over this team and the city was still all about the Sabres. There was a locked-in STH waiting list and they were relatively healthy as an organization. They have bungled it in so many ways, and there is nobody/nothing else to blame. If they would just let someone with experience do their job... Sabres fans would still give the Pegulas a mountain of credit, it would be more 'fun' to run the team (although they wouldnt be intimately involved on many decisions), the team would be profitable, they wouldnt be besieged by the media local and nationally, etc... I dont get it. How is this fun? And dont think the Bills are safe in any way. I think they are very susceptible for a "Linda Bogdan" moment. I get the sense initially under the Pegula's Sabres ownership that Terry was playing uber-fan and allowed his hockey people to do whatever they could financially and within the cap to win. They tried to spend their way to success and of course it didn't work because the people they inherited (who they retained) didn't know their stuff. And as the team remained at the bottom of the NHL, Terry and/or Kim began asserting more control over the entire operation. They maintained hiring bad executives and blamed the NHL for guidance over these moves. The move to buy the Bills in 2014 required a refocus on the bottom line with all their investments and that meant the Sabres got singled out because they were losing. It couldn't be Terry's toy like it had been before. Not to mention, they over-expanded into all these businesses for some reason. There again, I think there were some bad advisors or they made bad decisions. I know Terry made billions in gas, but I have yet to see how Kim is qualified to be leading these major organizations. Bottom line is they're trying to do things their way as a response to letting others run the team into the ground. What they're not capable of is admitting this "plan" is making things worse. It's their decision-making for why the franchise is losing money, why the fans are so dissatisfied, and why dysfunction exists in the front office. I If they think the Bills can be put on auto-pilot and win without good football management, this sports town is in real big trouble. They'll never recover from that level of stupid. They're in waaaay over their heads and won't admit it now because they look so bad already. 1 Quote
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