JaCrispy Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Tiberius said: No, environment shapes human culture, the individual and society. BLM can do what? Do explain how they can fix everything Well, I agree with you that environment contributes to culture. But I also believe that, within that environment, people make choices, everyday, as to whether they are going to act in positive ways or negative ways... As human beings, regardless of race, gender, or our circumstances in life, we are all going to be tested, emotionally, with unfortunate and frustrating situations...it’s up to all of us to overcome those moments of anger, fear, frustration, and rage, by not giving in, and preserving on... BLM can use their platform to bring awareness to inner city violence, through marches and protests, cookout block parties with police, etc...So many are fed a narrative that police hate black people and want them dead...I feel these get-togethers would be a good way to show that most police are looking out for them, and want to work with them... BLM can show solidarity with inner city communities and the police that are trying their best to mitigate gang violence...teach young people how to comply with law enforcement so that they don’t put their lives in danger when pulled over... I watch body cam videos of countless pull overs and 9 times out of 10 I see everything going smoothly until someone decides they are not going to comply or they resist arrest for an outstanding warrant...it is so sad...a person’s life could be saved if only they had complied...But I just feel they are fed a lie that cops just want to kill them all day long...and the statistics and video just don’t concur with that narrative...I feel it just further makes them fear law enforcement.... I just wish BLM actually cared about black lives...Because if they did, I would support them...Unfortunately I fear they are making it worse by making excuses for criminal behavior... If the community banded together, instilling responsibility and accountability, I have no doubt they could overcome the black on black violence... Edited April 19, 2021 by JaCrispy 1 1
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 21 hours ago, JaCrispy said: I disagree with the OP’s definition of racism...racism has nothing to do with being systemic, as it can be on an individual level as well...it also has nothing to do with having power...these separate features were intentionally added on to encompass specific people and exclude others... This new definition, that is now being used, is simply an ideological tactic to move the goalposts, so as to create a new narrative that will help to undermine western civilization... therefore, no need to go any further... I'm not sure if racism is "systemic" or "not systemic". I'm finding it unproductive to even discuss or debate because as currently defined it is a completely subjective term based on the specific interpretation of anyone and everyone. I expect that you, and I, and almost everyone on the board has a different understanding and definition of the term systemic as it might relate to race. So when we debate the presence or absence of systemic problems we're all coming to the party with different expectations. How can you debate, resolve, or agree on something that you cannot first quantify, much less fix it? For example, there are millions of encounters and interactions between people of different races every day and it might be safe to say that 99.999% of those encounters are civil and lead to no acts of bias or harm. So while we need to acknowledge acts of bias exists does a level of .001% equate to systemic? Some might say yes some might say no. When I hear the word systemic I envision some factor that effects something at a high rate and impact. But what is the impact and rate of being systemic. In my experience if you can't quantify a problem then you can't fix it. 1
JaCrispy Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: I'm not sure if racism is "systemic" or "not systemic". I'm finding it unproductive to even discuss or debate because as currently defined it is a completely subjective term based on the specific interpretation of anyone and everyone. I expect that you, and I, and almost everyone on the board has a different understanding and definition of the term systemic as it might relate to race. So when we debate the presence or absence of systemic problems we're all coming to the party with different expectations. How can you debate, resolve, or agree on something that you cannot first quantify, much less fix it? For example, there are millions of encounters and interactions between people of different races every day and it might be safe to say that 99.999% of those encounters are civil and lead to no acts of bias or harm. So while we need to acknowledge acts of bias exists does a level of .001% equate to systemic? Some might say yes some might say no. When I hear the word systemic I envision some factor that effects something at a high rate and impact. But what is the impact and rate of being systemic. In my experience if you can't quantify a problem then you can't fix it. Great post...I agree... I just remember growing up, there weren’t all these adjectives in front of the word “racism” to qualify it as such...you either thought certain races were superior/inferior or you just judged people on an individual level... I think those who like to use the word “systemic” do so because it justifies them wanting to change the system...However, when you pin those people down on specific instances of “systemic” racism, they are either describing something from the 1950s (that no longer exists) or they are describing discrimination on an individual level imo (ie a person gets pulled over for having flashy rims or blasting rap music)... But nowhere do I see law or policy within the “system” that discriminates against certain groups of people, except for Affirmative Action policies, which, legally, discriminate against white and Asian people, and privileges black and brown people... Edited April 19, 2021 by JaCrispy 2
BillStime Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Great post...I agree... I just remember growing up, there weren’t all these adjectives in front of the word “racism” to qualify it as such...you either thought certain races were superior/inferior or you just judged people on an individual level... I think those who like to use the word “systemic” do so because it justifies them wanting to change the system...However, when you pin those people down on specific instances of “systemic” racism, they are either describing something from the 1950 (that no longer exists) or they are describing discrimination on an individual level imo (ie a person gets pulled over for having flashy rims or blasting rap music)... But nowhere do I see law or policy within the “system” that discriminates against certain groups of people, except for Affirmative Action policies, which, legally, discriminate against white and Asian people, and privileges black and brown people... Really? Ask your gay and transgender friends what they think about some of the laws out there...
JaCrispy Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BillStime said: Really? Ask your gay and transgender friends what they think about some of the laws out there... Well, the conversation was about racism...and there are gays and transgenders of every race... Edited April 19, 2021 by JaCrispy
BillStime Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Well, the conversation was about racism...and there are gays and transgenders of every race... "But nowhere do I see law or policy within the “system” that discriminates against certain groups of people..."
All_Pro_Bills Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Great post...I agree... I just remember growing up, there weren’t all these adjectives in front of the word “racism” to qualify it as such...you either thought certain races were superior/inferior or you just judged people on an individual level... I think those who like to use the word “systemic” do so because it justifies them wanting to change the system...However, when you pin those people down on specific instances of “systemic” racism, they are either describing something from the 1950 (that no longer exists) or they are describing discrimination on an individual level imo (ie a person gets pulled over for having flashy rims or blasting rap music)... But nowhere do I see law or policy within the “system” that discriminates against certain groups of people, except for Affirmative Action policies, which, legally, discriminate against white and Asian people, and privileges black and brown people... When people make references to systemic racism and grouping of people by race I think about the manager that hired me into my position a couple years ago. She is a very intelligent and accomplished African-American women that left our firm about a year ago for a corporate VP position at a large commercial bank. Earlier this year she was voted onto the board of directors of an S&P 500 company. Quite an accomplishment for anyone, much less a women of color. We still keep in touch and I can't say enough about her abilities and how she helped me. But I can't help wonder how she could rise to the considerable income and position she's currently holding as a 'victim' of systemic racism that is supposed to exist. Surely the system would not allow this? How can the believers in the systemic theory explain this contradiction? And for that matter the accomplishments of a multitude of other famous and affluent blacks. And while we're at it the plight of poor and uneducated mostly rural whites. Are these poor whites choosing not to take advantage of their superior position in life to live better than how a majority of oppressed minorities live? Lots of questions and no good answers. That's a fundamental problem with racial grouping. It ignores the qualities and attributes of the individual, their specific circumstances, and assumes they all share the same homogeneous traits. Whites are oppressors, blacks are victims. Other successful minority groups unexplained or left out of the theory. And what is a mixed race white/black child? Their identity must be an exercise in confusion for the groupers. 1 1
JaCrispy Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BillStime said: "But nowhere do I see law or policy within the “system” that discriminates against certain groups of people..." Well, forgive me...The thread is about racism, and my response was about “systemic” racism, so I just assumed it was was self evident in my post what I was referring to...apparently not... Edited April 19, 2021 by JaCrispy 2
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 4 hours ago, JaCrispy said: Well, I agree with you that environment contributes to culture. But I also believe that, within that environment, people make choices, everyday, as to whether they are going to act in positive ways or negative ways... As human beings, regardless of race, gender, or our circumstances in life, we are all going to be tested, emotionally, with unfortunate and frustrating situations...it’s up to all of us to overcome those moments of anger, fear, frustration, and rage, by not giving in, and preserving on... BLM can use their platform to bring awareness to inner city violence, through marches and protests, cookout block parties with police, etc...So many are fed a narrative that police hate black people and want them dead...I feel these get-togethers would be a good way to show that most police are looking out for them, and want to work with them... BLM can show solidarity with inner city communities and the police that are trying their best to mitigate gang violence...teach young people how to comply with law enforcement so that they don’t put their lives in danger when pulled over... I watch body cam videos of countless pull overs and 9 times out of 10 I see everything going smoothly until someone decides they are not going to comply or they resist arrest for an outstanding warrant...it is so sad...a person’s life could be saved if only they had complied...But I just feel they are fed a lie that cops just want to kill them all day long...and the statistics and video just don’t concur with that narrative...I feel it just further makes them fear law enforcement.... I just wish BLM actually cared about black lives...Because if they did, I would support them...Unfortunately I fear they are making it worse by making excuses for criminal behavior... If the community banded together, instilling responsibility and accountability, I have no doubt they could overcome the black on black violence... Black organizations have worked forever to address the problems of violence and poverty. Not see easy to undo history. The Irish for many decades had this problem, but they were allowed into the middle class much sooner than blacks were and overcame their historic repression, but not right away
Boatdrinks Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Black organizations have worked forever to address the problems of violence and poverty. Not see easy to undo history. The Irish for many decades had this problem, but they were allowed into the middle class much sooner than blacks were and overcame their historic repression, but not right away Sadly, proven paths to the middle class such as the two parent nuclear family, and stressing education in the home ( the most proven path of all) are not promoted by hateful organizations such as BLM. They are derided as “ white”. The biggest problem faced by young people “ of color” is a broken culture that is proven to fail. A more positive organization promoting things such as JaCrispy mentioned could go a long way. Instead, they promote a culture of victimhood, violence and death. 1
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 Just now, Boatdrinks said: Sadly, proven paths to the middle class such as the two parent nuclear family, and stressing education in the home ( the most proven path of all) are not promoted by hateful organizations such as BLM. They are derided as “ white”. The biggest problem faced by young people “ of color” is a broken culture that is proven to fail. A more positive organization promoting things such as JaCrispy mentioned could go a long way. Instead, they promote a culture of victimhood, violence and death. Broken culture forced upon them through government policy that forced poverty on them. And BLM is hateful for fighting against racism? Ya, ok. Was Martin Luther King a bad person? He was sure called on a lot.
Boatdrinks Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Broken culture forced upon them through government policy that forced poverty on them. And BLM is hateful for fighting against racism? Ya, ok. Was Martin Luther King a bad person? He was sure called on a lot. You mean the Democrat plantation that has been detrimental to them over the years? You really don’t believe in freewill or the power of the individual, do you? BLM does a lot of things, but fighting actual racism isn’t one of them. Out of great respect for MLK, he really shouldn’t be mentioned in any discussion of BLM.
Tiberius Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Boatdrinks said: You mean the Democrat plantation that has been detrimental to them over the years? You really don’t believe in freewill or the power of the individual, do you? BLM does a lot of things, but fighting actual racism isn’t one of them. Out of great respect for MLK, he really shouldn’t be mentioned in any discussion of BLM. Democratic plantation? Isn't that a right wing talking point? I guess you think the Democratic Party is worse than the slave holders, huh? MLK is nothing like BLM? LOL, you guys. So happy you guys are losing elections.
Chef Jim Posted April 19, 2021 Posted April 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Tiberius said: No, environment shapes human culture, the individual and society. BLM can do what? Do explain how they can fix everything For one be FOR the nuclear family vs AGAINST it. Absente fathers have ruined more lives (of any color) than any police brutality ever will! 5 hours ago, BillStime said: Really? Ask your gay and transgender friends what they think about some of the laws out there... This is a serious question. What laws discriminate against gays and transgendered people? 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Broken culture forced upon them through government policy that forced poverty on them. What government policy of today forces a broken culture and poverty? 1 1
Unforgiven Posted April 23, 2021 Posted April 23, 2021 To be fair, I don't consider the white rules to be racist, lets face it, self loathing white libtarts may be the most selfish and self important people in America. 1 1
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