GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Rob's House said: If I knew you and trusted that you had a legitimate interest in an honest debate I would be more inclined to take you up on your offer. As is, I have no desire to do so. If you had the authority to bind a major news network, the contract would be easy to enforce. With you, I don't even know who you are. Even if I could establish your real identity and had an enforceable contract it would still not be worth my time to enforce it. I'd have to file suit against you, confirm your location, and serve you with process, then drag you into court to try the case. Even if I go through all that and prevail, I still may not be able to collect, and even if I could it would likely not be worth the hassle. I'm sure you have no insurance policy that would pay, and I doubt you have assets that I could collect against without going through additional legal proceedings and jumping through hoops. If you could establish your identity and address to my satisfaction and provide your credit report, and were willing to sign a contract with provisions for sufficient financial penalties, costs, and attorney's fees in case of breach, as well as choice of law and venue stipulations, and were willing to post a bond for the amount of the agreed upon penalty, I may agree to let you come to me, sit down in person, and do a Joe Rogan style podcast. To be honest though, that's a lot of work on my part, and I'm not terribly inclined to go through all of that to help you with your project. This is a good example of how whiteness really makes mediocre men over-estimate their value. Obviously you know that's not how any of it works. There is no release that exists in legal history that could give you such a guarantee. You can't sign a contract that will control other people outside of the contract (ie, anybody who would take the video and do whatever with it.) But it's an interesting idea, I wonder where you got it. How do you rationalize your real reasons, I wonder? Do you feel embarrassed that you can only share your views anonymously, or in whispers? And you feel, "well, because I'm not in the KKK, I'm not racist" and believe yourself? Somewhat rhetorical. Somewhat really asking. It just seems like a lot of work to maintain the various amounts of layers of delusion required to believe the things you guys believe. I feel like I could see you arguing with a Stop sign that it actually means Go.
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: No post the zoom invite here. Make it for 6pm PST so we can all log in. That would be a much better use of your time vs separate videos. I gave you my definition now it’s your turn to give us yours. Sure, 6pm PST works. However, it does need to be one-on-one. It's not more efficient having everyone on one call, but thank you for the tip. Alright! I will indeed give it to you. Unfortunately, I am realizing the need for a separate thread on this, because I think this kind of remedial refresher is needed for the whole class and not just you. Here are What is racism?Racism is the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character.What is prejudice?Prejudice is the action of making assumptions about people based on their identity. What is discrimination?Discrimination is the action of categorizing the abilities of people based on their identity. Am I racist?Probably, but you don't have to be racist. If you are born white in America, you are experiencing life with the benefits of racism. "You", as in your identity, are not any more "racist" than you are "American" or "capitalist" — as in, you are free to choose your identity. We've all been programmed to accept our American and capitalist identities very explicitly. We have also been programmed to accept our racist identities, too, just much less explicitly, and never by its name.How can I not be racist?You work against the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character. Think of racism like the Christian idea of "being born into sin." You start from a baseline of racism. You work toward redemption by taking actions to remove the societal structures of oppression. The only way to not be racist is to be Antiracist; actively opposing it. No action is too small; racism is insidious and microscopic. But it is continual. It is not a one-time donation. Actively hateful people, whether they understand the implications of their racism, continue to advocate for the same old racist ideas. Often, their advocations go unchallenged. Largely because racist people are extremely unpleasant. They're already socially unpopular and inept, so why would anyone seek them out? (ie, this board). Unfortunately, ignoring racism only perpetuates it. Ignorance is the oxygen of racism.Who is a bigot, and how is that different?A bigot is a person who has chosen hateful discrimination as their identity.Can a black person be racist?Yes. Racist should be thought of as a verb, not a noun. Candace Owens is racist when she supports the structures of systemic oppression. Barack Obama being elected is not racist; it tears down those structures. Obama's response to Trayvon Martin's shooting is racist; it upholds those structures.Can a black person be racist to a white person?No. There is no action that can be taken that will remove the white person's inherent advantages of being born into a society built to benefit them. Any person can be prejudiced (ie, "all white people marry their cousins") but it is not racism. Ironically, you could hate black people and still oppose racism — prejudice is inherent to the human condition. Racism is a construct. Take some time before you respond to show you gave it some consideration. I'll be creating a thread that expands on this as a kind of FAQ for people who are not used to hearing about race (ie, older white people who don't know many black people irl). Edited June 8, 2020 by GregPersons 1
4merper4mer Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, GregPersons said: Sure, 6pm PST works. However, it does need to be one-on-one. It's not more efficient having everyone on one call, but thank you for the tip. Alright! I will indeed give it to you. Unfortunately, I am realizing the need for a separate thread on this, because I think this kind of remedial refresher is needed for the whole class and not just you. Here are What is racism?Racism is the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character.What is prejudice?Prejudice is the action of making assumptions about people based on their identity. What is discrimination?Discrimination is the action of categorizing the abilities of people based on their identity. Am I racist?Probably, but you don't have to be racist. If you are born white in America, you are experiencing life with the benefits of racism. "You", as in your identity, are not any more "racist" than you are "American" or "capitalist" — as in, you are free to choose your identity. We've all been programmed to accept our American and capitalist identities very explicitly. We have also been programmed to accept our racist identities, too, just much less explicitly, and never by its name.How can I not be racist?You work against the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character. Think of racism like the Christian idea of "being born into sin." You start from a baseline of racism. You work toward redemption by taking actions to remove the societal structures of oppression. The only way to not be racist is to be Antiracist; actively opposing it. No action is too small; racism is insidious and microscopic. But it is continual. It is not a one-time donation. Actively hateful people, whether they understand the implications of their racism, continue to advocate for the same old racist ideas. Often, their advocations go unchallenged. Largely because racist people are extremely unpleasant. They're already socially unpopular and inept, so why would anyone seek them out? (ie, this board). Unfortunately, ignoring racism only perpetuates it. Ignorance is the oxygen of racism.Who is a bigot, and how is that different?A bigot is a person who has chosen hateful discrimination as their identity.Can a black person be racist?Yes. Racist should be thought of as a verb, not a noun. Candace Owens is racist when she supports the structures of systemic oppression. Barack Obama being elected is not racist; it tears down those structures. Obama's response to Trayvon Martin's shooting is racist; it upholds those structures.Can a black person be racist to a white person?No. There is no action that can be taken that will remove the white person's inherent advantages of being born into a society built to benefit them. Any person can be prejudiced (ie, "all white people marry their cousins") but it is not racism. Ironically, you could hate black people and still oppose racism — prejudice is inherent to the human condition. Racism is a construct. Take some time before you respond to show you gave it some consideration. I'll be creating a thread that expands on this as a kind of FAQ for people who are not used to hearing about race (ie, older white people who don't know many black people irl). Just spitballing.....If a black person didn't like white people and killed a white person wouldn't that "remove the white person's inherent advantages of being born into a society built to benefit them"?
3rdnlng Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, GregPersons said: Sure, 6pm PST works. However, it does need to be one-on-one. It's not more efficient having everyone on one call, but thank you for the tip. Alright! I will indeed give it to you. Unfortunately, I am realizing the need for a separate thread on this, because I think this kind of remedial refresher is needed for the whole class and not just you. Here are What is racism?Racism is the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character.What is prejudice?Prejudice is the action of making assumptions about people based on their identity. What is discrimination?Discrimination is the action of categorizing the abilities of people based on their identity. Am I racist?Probably, but you don't have to be racist. If you are born white in America, you are experiencing life with the benefits of racism. "You", as in your identity, are not any more "racist" than you are "American" or "capitalist" — as in, you are free to choose your identity. We've all been programmed to accept our American and capitalist identities very explicitly. We have also been programmed to accept our racist identities, too, just much less explicitly, and never by its name.How can I not be racist?You work against the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character. Think of racism like the Christian idea of "being born into sin." You start from a baseline of racism. You work toward redemption by taking actions to remove the societal structures of oppression. The only way to not be racist is to be Antiracist; actively opposing it. No action is too small; racism is insidious and microscopic. But it is continual. It is not a one-time donation. Actively hateful people, whether they understand the implications of their racism, continue to advocate for the same old racist ideas. Often, their advocations go unchallenged. Largely because racist people are extremely unpleasant. They're already socially unpopular and inept, so why would anyone seek them out? (ie, this board). Unfortunately, ignoring racism only perpetuates it. Ignorance is the oxygen of racism.Who is a bigot, and how is that different?A bigot is a person who has chosen hateful discrimination as their identity.Can a black person be racist?Yes. Racist should be thought of as a verb, not a noun. Candace Owens is racist when she supports the structures of systemic oppression. Barack Obama being elected is not racist; it tears down those structures. Obama's response to Trayvon Martin's shooting is racist; it upholds those structures.Can a black person be racist to a white person?No. There is no action that can be taken that will remove the white person's inherent advantages of being born into a society built to benefit them. Any person can be prejudiced (ie, "all white people marry their cousins") but it is not racism. Ironically, you could hate black people and still oppose racism — prejudice is inherent to the human condition. Racism is a construct. Take some time before you respond to show you gave it some consideration. I'll be creating a thread that expands on this as a kind of FAQ for people who are not used to hearing about race (ie, older white people who don't know many black people irl). You should have provided a link from whence you copied the above: https://www.resetera.com/threads/what-is-racism-are-you-racist.222007/ What is this site called resetera.com?
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 20 hours ago, GregPersons said: I've noticed a lot of our fellow Bills fans are sure that racism isn't real. In an attempt to heal this country, I thought these words could go a long way and help people outside of our community. That's why I'm scheduling a time for all of the folks who've been so strident in their posts here, reminding us all that racism is not real, to go ahead and use their faces and tell us on camera. No need to tell us your name / location. We just want to see your face. Go ahead and wear some Bills gear too, to make us all proud. I will be arranging times for people who've been really loud about this — even people I've put on ignore like @Reality Check, you get another chance here bud — to make time with me. I can be pretty flexible to your schedule. If you have time and interest, and you want to make sure that the world beyond our Bills community has the chance to hear your words of wisdom, please make sure to schedule a time. I will be recording throughout this next week. Let's show people what Buffalo is made of!! @Chef Jim you had a lot of thoughts. What's your schedule? @billsfan1959 you had a lot of great thoughts on racism and police. I know you're not working anymore. What's your schedule this week? @Deranged Rhino you're in Los Angeles so we're in the time zone. You have also made it clear that white genocide is an issue. Can I get you saying that with your mouth instead of your fingers? Who else? I know we've got a lot of smart people here and I don't want to leave anyone out. I have noticed you make this "offer" several times but have yet to see where you have provided a link to your YouTube videos. I have said I think some people on here are Trump paid trolls whose job is to be absurd and just be a unreasonable person but you are the first person I am certain is truly a Trump person just trying to get people riled up. I am not complimenting you and wish you would stop.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I have noticed you make this "offer" several times but have yet to see where you have provided a link to your YouTube videos. I have said I think some people on here are Trump paid trolls whose job is to be absurd and just be a unreasonable person but you are the first person I am certain is truly a Trump person just trying to get people riled up. I am not complimenting you and wish you would stop. Might want to re-think that. 2
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Might want to re-think that. I have read far too much of what he has written and it is all written from an unreasonable viewpoint, he is like Qbaby without the humor.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Buffalo Timmy said: I have read far too much of what he has written and it is all written from an unreasonable viewpoint, he is like Qbaby without the humor. He's not a "Trump" bot in disguise. He's a troll, no question, but he's not here to backdoor support for 45.
Orlando Buffalo Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: He's not a "Trump" bot in disguise. He's a troll, no question, but he's not here to backdoor support for 45. If he is not a Trump guy he is only gonna get Trump reelected with his BS 1
Johnnycage46 Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 2 hours ago, GregPersons said: What data are you lacking? The existence of racism, or of police brutality? What about the most recent data? In Los Angeles, and across the country, protests all weekend. In LA, for the first time, the occupying military left the streets and there was no curfew. Guess what didn't happen? @Deranged Rhino do you know what happened this weekend at the protests? They were entirely peaceful and without incident. And as it just so happens, these also happened to be the ones with the least amount of cop / soldier intervention. What conclusions can we draw from this data? Anyway, otherwise, thanks for your unasked for assessment of my character. I simply want to present a challenge that requires conviction and courage to a bloc of people I suspect are all cowards. A poster, earlier in thread, volunteered to do a call. He even threw out his real name and twitter handle. I don't advise anyone to do that. But of course he's not afraid to share his views because he's not ashamed of them, because he's not advocating for racism. It seems to only be when people are advocating for racism, but don't want to use the word and identify it so baldly, that it seems to be some kind of moral quandary and something to get mealy-mouthed about. So you're interested in putting your face / voice with your writing here on cam, or no? So, is it purely racism when a white police officer kills a black man? If so, it would seem that based on statistics, black people are super racist because the leading cause of death for a young black male...is death by a black male. There is data out there that shows that a police officer actually has ~18 times more chance that they will be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male will be killed by a police officer. I would love to get your thoughts on this. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, Buffalo Timmy said: If he is not a Trump guy he is only gonna get Trump reelected with his BS That's proof of how dumb he is, nothing more. And it's the living example of the (now) old saying around here: "All democrats had to do was not be crazy, but they just couldn't do it."
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 38 minutes ago, GregPersons said: Sure, 6pm PST works. However, it does need to be one-on-one. It's not more efficient having everyone on one call, but thank you for the tip. Alright! I will indeed give it to you. Unfortunately, I am realizing the need for a separate thread on this, because I think this kind of remedial refresher is needed for the whole class and not just you. Here are What is racism?Racism is the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character.What is prejudice?Prejudice is the action of making assumptions about people based on their identity. What is discrimination?Discrimination is the action of categorizing the abilities of people based on their identity. Am I racist?Probably, but you don't have to be racist. If you are born white in America, you are experiencing life with the benefits of racism. "You", as in your identity, are not any more "racist" than you are "American" or "capitalist" — as in, you are free to choose your identity. We've all been programmed to accept our American and capitalist identities very explicitly. We have also been programmed to accept our racist identities, too, just much less explicitly, and never by its name.How can I not be racist?You work against the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character. Think of racism like the Christian idea of "being born into sin." You start from a baseline of racism. You work toward redemption by taking actions to remove the societal structures of oppression. The only way to not be racist is to be Antiracist; actively opposing it. No action is too small; racism is insidious and microscopic. But it is continual. It is not a one-time donation. Actively hateful people, whether they understand the implications of their racism, continue to advocate for the same old racist ideas. Often, their advocations go unchallenged. Largely because racist people are extremely unpleasant. They're already socially unpopular and inept, so why would anyone seek them out? (ie, this board). Unfortunately, ignoring racism only perpetuates it. Ignorance is the oxygen of racism.Who is a bigot, and how is that different?A bigot is a person who has chosen hateful discrimination as their identity.Can a black person be racist?Yes. Racist should be thought of as a verb, not a noun. Candace Owens is racist when she supports the structures of systemic oppression. Barack Obama being elected is not racist; it tears down those structures. Obama's response to Trayvon Martin's shooting is racist; it upholds those structures.Can a black person be racist to a white person?No. There is no action that can be taken that will remove the white person's inherent advantages of being born into a society built to benefit them. Any person can be prejudiced (ie, "all white people marry their cousins") but it is not racism. Ironically, you could hate black people and still oppose racism — prejudice is inherent to the human condition. Racism is a construct. Take some time before you respond to show you gave it some consideration. I'll be creating a thread that expands on this as a kind of FAQ for people who are not used to hearing about race (ie, older white people who don't know many black people irl). I can understand all the points up until the end. As a White Man who has been discriminated against by Black and Brown people, I know it can happen. It is just as ugly and just as wrong. Also it doesn't make sense, you posted the definition of racism as "Racism is the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character." There is no "except if Black people are doing it." This type of thinking is in itself racist and wrong, and is how we got to where we are today. 1
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Posted June 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: I can understand all the points up until the end. As a White Man who has been discriminated against by Black and Brown people, I know it can happen. It is just as ugly and just as wrong. Also it doesn't make sense, you posted the definition of racism as "Racism is the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character." There is no "except if Black people are doing it." This type of thinking is in itself racist and wrong, and is how we got to where we are today. Black and Brown people can discriminate against White people, yes. Unless they have a time machine, they can't change the fact that as a White person, if you are harassed and call the police, you are more likely to be believed and accommodated than the Black and Brown people. That is why they can't be racist. The distinction is (relatively) new, so it's fine to be a bit confused. However, the reason it is necessary is because the language is limited and needs to evolve to match our understanding of it. Racism's definition including the systemic aspect is more accurate to what the word needs to convey. Racism's definition NOT including the systemic aspect implies that it is something equally felt by White people, but that is not true. It's not the same level of discrimination, and conflating it is both incorrect and morally wrong. Racism is generational and institutional and everything else. And if we want to blame people for not having more words for race, it should be directed at the people who made those decisions. You don't have to blame only COINTELPRO but it's a good start
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, GregPersons said: Tasker, what set of criteria do you use to evaluate people? Individually and in group scale? I don’t assign people group identities as I don’t think they are particularly valuable, and they diminish the self. I don’t much care where a person comes from, but rather I value where they are going. So while I absolutely understand that individuals are shaped by their experiences, those experiences are anecdotal, personal, and don’t invalidate data and truth. I evaluate individuals based on the way they present themselves and their arguments. Do they seek a soap box from which to preach, condemning others; or do they seek to understand the arguments others are making, and then to honestly test their own ideas using the rigors of debate? This is exactly why I say I’m willing to have an honest discussion with anyone. I leave open the possibility that my argument may not be correct, and that others may have more knowledge, or more complete data. This has happened multiple times on this forum, and many more throughout my lifetime.
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 38 minutes ago, GregPersons said: Black and Brown people can discriminate against White people, yes. Unless they have a time machine, they can't change the fact that as a White person, if you are harassed and call the police, you are more likely to be believed and accommodated than the Black and Brown people. That is why they can't be racist. The distinction is (relatively) new, so it's fine to be a bit confused. However, the reason it is necessary is because the language is limited and needs to evolve to match our understanding of it. Racism's definition including the systemic aspect is more accurate to what the word needs to convey. Racism's definition NOT including the systemic aspect implies that it is something equally felt by White people, but that is not true. It's not the same level of discrimination, and conflating it is both incorrect and morally wrong. Racism is generational and institutional and everything else. And if we want to blame people for not having more words for race, it should be directed at the people who made those decisions. You don't have to blame only COINTELPRO but it's a good start So basically the Left is now changing definitions of important words to divide us as a nation. What's next, changing the definition of Equality so that it only exists if White people are in an inferior position in society to Black and Brown people?
Chef Jim Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 1 hour ago, GregPersons said: What is racism?Racism is the systemic oppression of people based on their physical character. The above is as far as I got. So let me get this straight. If I oppress someone because they have red hair that's racism? Good lord dude. We waited nearly 24 hour for you to come back and ***** up the definition THAT badly? Bwahahahahahhaha! I won't debate you. You're too ***** dumb to waste my time with.
GregPersons Posted June 8, 2020 Author Posted June 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: So basically the Left is now changing definitions of important words to divide us as a nation. What's next, changing the definition of Equality so that it only exists if White people are in an inferior position in society to Black and Brown people? Reality can be challenging! Did you assume that language did not change? Did you think the language of racism has not changed? Why are you calling them "Black and Brown" people then? Change is hard!
Wacka Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Did joe have a mullet 25 years ago or did a muskrat climb on his neck? Edited June 9, 2020 by Wacka 2
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