Black People Legally Murdered By White People in America

[SoCal Deek]

Some people are spending a whole lot of time these days trying to convince Americans that they hate each other. Why, exactly?

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Poor thread title aside (In order for something to be legal there needs to be law specifically condoning it), there are no laws which state white people can murder, or even simply kill (again, “murder” is a legal term with a narrow meaning), black people with impunity.
 

Present your crime data demonstrating three things:

 

1) there is an epidemic of white on black violence.
 

2) a disproportionate number of suspected white on black crimes which go unsolved.

 

3) the percentage of suspected white on black crimes which go uninvestigated until there is an uprising.
 

Or, you can allow me to save you the time:  there is zero data demonstrating what you say is true.

You mean it's not legal for whites to kill blacks? Ooops. 

[Wacka]

GregPersons  Murders English Language. News at eleven.

[Koko78]

So I'm thinking of broiling a steak for supper tonight.

[billsfan1959]

8 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

So I'm thinking of broiling a steak for supper tonight.

 

I was actually thinking of grilling some salmon and roasting some vegetables.

[Motorin']

This video is difficult to watch, but appears to show police department coverup of the murder of a black man.

I'd love to hear @billsfan1959 point of view as a LEO. Is this justified? If so, how? If not, can you see how this type of coverup makes is indicative of systemic problems in law enforcement that lend credence to the conception that the system protects officers how commit unjust killings? 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Motorin'

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

This video is difficult to watch, but appears to show police department coverup of the murder of a black man.

I'd love to hear @billsfan1959 point of view as a LEO. Is this justified? If not, can you see how this type of coverup makes all law enforcement look bad? 

 

 

 

Any crime committed by a cop is egregious and should be fully investigated/prosecuted. No one argues otherwise. 

 

But to argue that because there are one (or 100) bad cops, all cops are bad is as simple minded as saying all Muslims are bad because of what happened on 9/11. It's a nonsense argument. 

[Motorin']

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Any crime committed by a cop is egregious and should be fully investigated/prosecuted. No one argues otherwise. 

 

But to argue that because there are one (or 100) bad cops, all cops are bad is as simple minded as saying all Muslims are bad because of what happened on 9/11. It's a nonsense argument. 

 

Ok, allow me to rephrase. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Motorin' said:

 

Ok, allow me to rephrase. 

 

That wasn't directed at you personally. It was a general statement to show how silly that kind of argument is. It's reductive and shallow.

[Motorin']

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

 

That wasn't directed at you personally. It was a general statement to show how silly that kind of argument is. It's reductive and shallow.

 

I revised. The argument is that there are systemic problems, not a few bad apples.  

[Cinga]

1 hour ago, Koko78 said:

So I'm thinking of broiling a steak for supper tonight.

Don't ruin it! If you don't have one, get a good grill, fire it up super hot, and sear that baby!

 

I use my Weber almost every night over the summer. Gotta get an old fashioned charcoal to use once in a while, but the propane Weber is soooooo convenient! 

Oh, and edit to add the asparagus! 

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I was actually thinking of grilling some salmon and roasting some vegetables.

Which veggies and what's your favorite salmon grilling recipe?

Edited June 8, 2020 by Cinga

[Beast]

Language warning

 

 

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Motorin' said:

This video is difficult to watch, but appears to show police department coverup of the murder of a black man.

I'd love to hear @billsfan1959 point of view as a LEO. Is this justified? If so, how? If not, can you see how this type of coverup makes is indicative of systemic problems in law enforcement that lend credence to the conception that the system protects officers how commit unjust killings? 

 

 

 

Hey Motorin', sorry for not immediately responding. I needed to watch the video and I also read through a report on the shooting that I found at:

 

https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/JSID_OIS_05_2019_Ross.pdf

 

I will preface my response with the following: I don't like to provide an assessment of a crime without having the ability to review the entire case file and all related evidence. I have no idea if the extraneous information being provided alongside the videos is accurate or not.

 

After watching the video and reading the report, without any other information I would say the following:

 

1. I believe Kenneth Ross was involved in the shooting for which the police were chasing him.

     a.  He was identified at the scene and literally pointed out, by a witness, to a police officer as Mr. Ross was running from the scene. Another officer, Officer Colon sees him on the corner and you see him take off running as Officer Colon follows in her vehicle. 

     b. In the video, when they approach Mr. Ross, after he was shot, there is a point where it is pointed out that there is no gun in his left pocket.

     c. In the report, it was reported that a gun was found in Mr. Ross' front left pocket, a 9mm semiautomatic.

     d. As I said in the video they say there is no gun. However, the close-up they show is of the back of the shorts, implying because there is no "bulge" there can be no weapon. But, as the video continues and as they are handcuffing him, you can see that there does appear to be a "bulge" in the shorts on the left side. When they role him over, whoever edited the video put the text right over the left pocket area. Then, the video cuts off, even though they stated the camera ran the entire time. I would like to see the video unedited.

    c. A bullet, a bullet fragment, and 8 shell casings recovered from the original shooting scene were matched with the handgun police say they recovered from the body.

   

Based on the above, I do believe Mr. Ross was involved in a shooting and a handgun was recovered from his pocket.

 

2. I didn't see anything on any of the videos that suggested to me that Officers Colon and Medeiros ever acted outside of protocol. When Officer Medeiros arrives on his motorcycle, he has his handgun drawn, because he is responding to the pursuit of a shooting suspect believed to be armed. As he begins chasing the suspect, he places his gun in the holster and pulls out his taser. This tells me he did not think the suspect had a weapon in his hand.

 

3. Officer Robbins arrives and sees the suspect running. He gets out and immediately trains his rifle on the suspect and yells for him to stop or he'll shoot. Mr. Ross continues running behind a small utility building and out the other side, at which point Officer Robbins fires two shots and kills Mr. Ross.

 

4. Based soley off the video, I would have a hard time justifying Officer Robbins' use of deadly force. He stated that he believed the suspect "looked" toward him and "cocked his arm," prompting Offficer Robbins to believe Mr. Ross was "about to draw down and shoot me." It is hard to see Mr. Ross' movements clearly in this video and it is difficult to judge actual distances between people. I would like to have all of the videos to review in their entirety and crime scene sketches/diagrams to determine distances. However, based on what I saw, it looked like Mr. Ross was continuing to run away from all the officers, including Officer Robbins.

 

Based soley on this video, I do not believe Mr. Ross posed an iminent threat to Officer Robbins and do not believe the shooting was justified and believe he should have been charged.

 

I will say that I think whoever put this video together was not being honest about the weapon. With that said, it doesn't change the fact that I do not believe Officer Robbins was justified in shooting Mr. Ross and should have been charged.

 

I do see how people can look at a incident like this and feel the problem is systemic. There is no doubt that incidents like this do occur. People are human beings and sometimes fail to do the right thing. I also believe that each and every incident of violence, by the police or anyone else, should be evaluated based on the facts specific to that incident.

 

Incidents like this will always occur. It is an unfortunate aspect of our society that we literally have law enforcement officers and civilians armed and interacting with one another in emotionally charged situations.

 

I believe in looking at new and innovative ways of improving law enforcement. I also believe  the vast majority of law enforcement officers truly are trying to do the right thing and are not represented by the bad apples or those who engage in willful ignorance. Just as I do not think those violent offenders in black communities represent the vast majority of the citizens in those communites.

 

I don't know if this answers your questions. Feel free to follow up.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by billsfan1959

[billsfan1959]

11 minutes ago, Cinga said:

Which veggies and what's your favorite salmon grilling recipe?

 

I do a light coating of olive oil and literally cover it with lemon/pepper seasoning. I grill the salmon filets at 400, turning them over 4 times (every four minutes for a total of 8 minutes on each side). My wife and I both like our salmon cooked well.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I was actually thinking of grilling some salmon and roasting some vegetables.

Slow down guys. We just finished lunch out here. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Chef Jim

[4BillsintheBurgh]

14 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Hey Motorin', sorry for not immediately responding. I needed to watch the video and I also read through a report on the shooting that I found at:

 

https://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/JSID_OIS_05_2019_Ross.pdf

 

I will preface my response with the following: I don't like to provide an assessment of a crime without having the ability to review the entire case file and all related evidence. I have no idea if the extraneous information being provided alongside the videos is accurate or not.

 

After watching the video and reading the report, without any other information I would say the following:

 

1. I believe Kenneth Ross was involved in the shooting for which the police were chasing him.

     a.  He was identified at the scene and literally pointed out, by a witness, to a police officer as Mr. Ross was running from the scene. Another officer, Officer Colon sees him on the corner and you see him take off running as Officer Colon follows in her vehicle. 

     b. In the video, when they approach Mr. Ross, after he was shot, there is a point where it is pointed out that there is no gun in his left pocket.

     c. In the report, it was reported that a gun was found in Mr. Ross' front left pocket, a 9mm semiautomatic.

     d. As I said in the video they say there is no gun. However, the close-up they show is of the back of the shorts, implying because there is no "bulge" there can be no weapon. But, as the video continues and as they are handcuffing him, you can see that there does appear to be a "bulge" in the shorts on the left side. When they role him over, whoever edited the video put the text right over the left pocket area. Then, the video cuts off, even though they stated the camera ran the entire time. I would like to see the video unedited.

    c. A bullet, a bullet fragment, and 8 shell casings recovered from the original shooting scen were matched with the handgun police say they recovered from the body.

   

Based on the above, I do believe Mr. Ross was involved in a shooting and a handgun was recovered from his pocket.

 

2. I didn't see anything on any of the videos that suggested to me that Officers Colon and Medeiros ever acted outside of protocol. When Officer Medeiros arrives on his motorcycle, he has his handgun drawn, because he is responding to the pursuit of a shooting suspect believed to be armed. As he begins chasing the suspect, he places his gun in the holster and pulls out his taser. This tells me he did not think the suspect had a weapon in his hand.

 

3. Officer Robbins arrives and sees the suspect running. He gets out and immediately trains his rifle on the suspect and yells for him to stop or he'll shoot. Mr. Ross continues running behind a small utility building and out the other side, at which point Officer Robbins fires two shots and kills Mr. Ross.

 

Based soley off the video, I would have a hard time justifying Officer Robbins' use of deadly force. He stated that he believed the suspect "looked" toward him and "cocked his arm," prompting Offficer Robbins to believe Mr. Ross was "about to draw down and shoot me." It is hard to see Mr. Ross' movements clearly in this video and it is difficult to judge actual distances between people. I would like to have all of the videos to review in their entirety and crime scene sketches/diagrams to determine distances.

 

Based soley on this video, I do not believe Mr. Ross posed an iminent threat to Officer Robbins and do not believe the shooting was justified.

 

I will say that I think whoever put this video together was not being honest about the weapon. With that said, it doesn't change the fact that I do not believe Officer Robbins was justified in shooting Mr. Ross and should have been charged.

 

I do see how people can look at a incident like this and feel the problem is systemic. There is no doubt that incidents like this do occur. People are human beings and sometimes fail to do the right thing. I also believe that each and every incident of violence, by the police or anyone else, should be evaluated based on the facts specific to that incident.

 

Incidents like this will always occur. It is an unfortunate aspect of our society that we literally have law enforcement officers and civilians armed and interacting with one another in emotionally charged situations.

 

I believe in looking at new and innovative ways of improving law enforcement. I also believe  the vast majority of law enforcement officers truly are trying to do the right thing and are not represented the bad apples or those who engage in willful ignorance. Just as I do not think those violent offenders in black communities represent the vast majority of the citizens in those communites.

 

I don't know if this answers your questions. Feel free to follow up.

 

My MIL was a trainer for the local city cops.We had a shooting around here where a suspect was fleeing and was shot in the back and killed. I talked to her about it and she said the police were trained to do that because they are protecting the rest of the population from an armed aggressor. The key part being the suspect was armed and in this case that does seem to be in question. So how do you confirm the suspect is armed? The guy doing the shooting doesn't seem to be able to, assuming he's going on the reports he heard getting to the scene. Maybe more verification of possession of a weapon is needed before using deadly force, but if there is a time when a cop could have taken a guy down and didn't that results in an innocent life lost that's not a good outcome either.

 

The easy thing is to not run from the cops if they think you might have a gun.

 

[mead107]

How about everyone has to have a  chip put in their brain that will keep everyone from killing.  
come on Bill Gates

Edited June 8, 2020 by mead107

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

My MIL was a trainer for the local city cops.We had a shooting around here where a suspect was fleeing and was shot in the back and killed. I talked to her about it and she said the police were trained to do that because they are protecting the rest of the population from an armed aggressor. The key part being the suspect was armed and in this case that does seem to be in question. So how do you confirm the suspect is armed? The guy doing the shooting doesn't seem to be able to, assuming he's going on the reports he heard getting to the scene. Maybe more verification of possession of a weapon is needed before using deadly force, but if there is a time when a cop could have taken a guy down and didn't that results in an innocent life lost that's not a good outcome either.

 

The easy thing is to not run from the cops if they think you might have a gun.

 

 

Most shooting situations are very fluid and decisions are often made incredibly fast. That is one of the reasons officers train so much - so that they, hopefully, it becomes "second nature" to them and they react accordingly in stressful situations. I don't believe any officers are trained to shoot fleeing suspects. In order to use deadly force, an officer has to be able to articulate an "imminent" threat, such as, "he raised his weapon, pointed it at me, and I believed he was going to shoot me."

 

There are situations where deadly force can be used on a fleeing suspect; however, I believe that the officer still has to articulate an "imminent" danger to others.  

[GregPersons]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Most shooting situations are very fluid and decisions are often made incredibly fast. That is one of the reasons officers train so much - so that they, hopefully, it becomes "second nature" to them and they react accordingly in stressful situations. I don't believe any officers are trained to shoot fleeing suspects. In order to use deadly force, an officer has to be able to articulate an "imminent" threat, such as, "he raised his weapon, pointed it at me, and I believed he was going to shoot me."

 

There are situations where deadly force can be used on a fleeing suspect; however, I believe that the officer still has to articulate an "imminent" danger to others.  

 

Question — did you ever see reports of uses of deadly force where the imminent threat was claimed but did not appear justified? How rare or frequent did you personally see this? And how much do you suspect it happens nationwide? 

 

Not rhetorical; genuinely asking. 

[Reality Check]