4BillsintheBurgh Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I don't have a problem with that. I would love to see the Dems support the same thing with the Teacher's Union... Camden is no beacon of "transformative thinking." They essentially increased the police force by 56%.The violent crime rate fell from 2012-2014 and has remained fairly constant since then. However, that violent crime rate is awful. I think this would also work well with many areas of ineffective government agencies. There has been a stagnation that cries out for a reset in a lot of places. I was hoping that the last couple of presidents would take something like this to heart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said: Yeah, We used to call it E-0, since you wore no rank. I knew a guy who got busted all the way from E-6 down to E-1. Let me guess, alcohol related incident? 35 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I don't have a problem with that. I would love to see the Dems support the same thing with the Teacher's Union... Camden is no beacon of "transformative thinking." They essentially increased the police force by 56%.The violent crime rate fell from 2012-2014 and has remained fairly constant since then. However, that violent crime rate is awful. The teachers unions are going to have a lot of issues with this new distance learning and budget cuts, so they might be in the cross hairs too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilzfancy Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said: Yeah, We used to call it E-0, since you wore no rank. I knew a guy who got busted all the way from E-6 down to E-1. I once got busted from e-3 to e-2 simply for not saluting an officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The teachers unions are going to have a lot of issues with this new distance learning and budget cuts, so they might be in the cross hairs too I think they should be. There are two real systemic problems, not only in policing, but across all government agencies: Rewarding mediocrity and an inability to get rid of employees who can't even reach that low standard of performance. We have allowed it to reach a point where it is almost impossible to get rid of the bad apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: Thanks for this. So true that education resources are not equal. But I can't say that fixing that will be a magic bullet that solves poverty. All problems and solutions start in the home. If a child grows up around violence, ignorance and substance abuse then the chances of that child growing into a solid citizen diminish greatly. The black experience in America has not been one to foster healthy social environments. The weight of history on the backs is pretty heavy and you don;'t just unring the bell of oppression overnight. The racist love it that blacks have so many social problems and want to use their favorite ploy of blaming the victim. Hopefully the times are changing and there will be more room for trial and error where every failure won't automatically be a successful tool for the right to scream their heads off and have people listen to them. Let them scream, but ignore them. But how the hell do you break the cycle of poverty? Education is important, yes. So is decent affordable housing which is a situation wildly difficult to deal with for so many reasons in a city. The countryside can just lay out some more trailer parks. The war on drugs has been a disaster for many Americans. Once you have a police record many doors for advancement are closed to that person. More experimentation with dealing with the drug problem needs to happen. Every child born in America needs to a healthy and safe environment to grow. That is not happening right now. There should be a New Deal for children and have a huge investment in social services. This would not be easy or clear cut, but through trial and error they could create a system that could do a better job of keeping an eye on children at risk, promoting reading, nutrition, exercise and better parenting practices. The military has been a great anti-poverty program. Over the last five decades or so millions of young people have left home to see a new world and gained mightily from the experience. There should be something else like a jobs corp to get at the young people and do the same building a better America. You know, your arguement, as far as I'm concerned, holds no merit. Republicans LOVE when people are employed and have success. ALL people. That means a better and safer country for all of us. Republicans do not celebrate minority unemployment and woes in life like the Left want people to believe. That's pure BS. Democrats love social programs. We need this, we need that....all it really is is keeping people dependent on the system. The cycle is never ending for most. That's where Democrats prey on people...get those that depend on government to vote for them. Ultimately, it comes down to personal responsibility. If you can't raise a child to even graduate high school, or even care that your child graduates high school, you shouldn't be bringing kids into this world. It's not all that hard to use birth control. Edited June 9, 2020 by Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I think they should be. There are two real systemic problems, not only in policing, but across all government agencies: Rewarding mediocrity and an inability to get rid of employees who can't even reach that low standard of performance. We have allowed it to reach a point where it is almost impossible to get rid of the bad apples. Education just got a real kick in the azz from corona. Change is coming whether people like it or not. 5 minutes ago, Beast said: You know, your arguement, as far as I'm concerned, holds no merit. Republicans LOVE when people are employed and have success. ALL people. That means a better and safer country for all of us. Republicans do not celebrate minority unemployment and woes in life like the Left want people to believe. That's pure BS. Democrats love social programs. We need this, we need that....all it really is is keeping people dependent on the system. The cycle is never ending for most. That's where Democrats prey on people...get those that depend on government to vote for them. Ultimately, it comes down to personal responsibility. If you can't raise a child to even graduate high school, or even care that your child graduates high school, you shouldn't be bringing kids into this world. It's not all that hard to use birth control. Social responsibility One really good development of the emerging Democratic majority is that they will not have to rely on people like you who are totally chained to the status quo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) Minneapolis Manufacturer Leaving After Plant Burned During Riots: ‘They Didn’t Protect Our People’ ▪ June 9, 2020 "The fire engine was just sitting there, but they wouldn't do anything." Edited June 9, 2020 by B-Man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, GG said: Did you & the other disband/defund police proponents read the article? Everyone is applauding the precedent, but it was more of an administrative move to disband the union and get MORE cops on the street. Here are the operative punchlines: why are your panties in such a bind over what you inferred we are to have said or understood regarding the article? By disbanding you Guess folks mean eliminate police. Maybe it never meant that at all and you Inferred it did. Ever think of that? Ive posted recently regarding even police being sickened and disgusted by that scumbag cop in Minneapolis. If the unions are so strong that the governments hands are tied relating to removing those kinds of cops I'd think you'd be in favor of a way to weed those guys out. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Margarita said: why are your panties in such a bind over what you inferred we are to have said or understood regarding the article? By disbanding you Guess folks mean eliminate police. Maybe it never meant that at all and you Inferred it did. Ever think of that? Thanks for confirming that words only matter when they are applied to conservatives? What else should people assume when the slogans are "disband the police" and "defund the police?" I'm guess that "Take administrative action to disband the police union and add more cops on the beat" doesn't have the same ring to it, or are you not in step with the leaders of the movement whose public goal is most certainly disbanding the police departments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: Thanks for confirming that words only matter when they are applied to conservatives? What else should people assume when the slogans are "disband the police" and "defund the police?" I'm guess that "Take administrative action to disband the police union and add more cops on the beat" doesn't have the same ring to it, or are you not in step with the leaders of the movement whose public goal is most certainly disbanding the police departments? the words you are putting into peoples minds are what don't matter. Maybe it takes eductating ourselves and not coming to snap judgments? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just now, Margarita said: the words you are putting into peoples minds are what don't matter. Maybe it takes eductating ourselves and not coming to snap judgments? Just a thought. I'm trying to interpret what the words mean. But don't listen to me, listen to the movement's leaders. Words matter. Not only when a conservative says something. Quote Some supporters of divestment want to reallocate some, but not all, funds away from police departments to social services. Some want to strip all police funding and dissolve departments. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 24 minutes ago, Margarita said: why are your panties in such a bind over what you inferred we are to have said or understood regarding the article? By disbanding you Guess folks mean eliminate police. Maybe it never meant that at all and you Inferred it did. Ever think of that? Ive posted recently regarding even police being sickened and disgusted by that scumbag cop in Minneapolis. If the unions are so strong that the governments hands are tied relating to removing those kinds of cops I'd think you'd be in favor of a way to weed those guys out. Just sayin'. You are aware that the 4 cops were FIRED before any of the protests started, right? They were fired the day after George Floyd was murdered. You are aware that the cop that killed George Floyd was charged with 3rd degree murder 4 days after the incident, right? And that 5 days after that the charge was bumped up to 2nd degree murder and the other 3 officers involved had charges brought as well, right? Just how badly were the "governments hands ... tied?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, GG said: I'm trying to interpret what the words mean. But don't listen to me, listen to the movement's leaders. Words matter. Not only when a conservative says something. the key word there is SOME. You can't cop to that even on a message board where there are many views and opinions expressed. You lumped me into a "Pro" group after what a few posts of discussion......I dont presume to know your every view and thought on every political thought unless you really do just kowtow to your partiy leaders line hook line and sinker. 3 minutes ago, Taro T said: You are aware that the 4 cops were FIRED before any of the protests started, right? They were fired the day after George Floyd was murdered. You are aware that the cop that killed George Floyd was charged with 3rd degree murder 4 days after the incident, right? And that 5 days after that the charge was bumped up to 2nd degree murder and the other 3 officers involved had charges brought as well, right? Just how badly were the "governments hands ... tied?" come on man how many infractions did that cop have before he even met George Floyd..? WHY was he still employed is more the question Im curious about. Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: I don't have a problem with that. I would love to see the Dems support the same thing with the Teacher's Union... Camden is no beacon of "transformative thinking." They essentially increased the police force by 56%.The violent crime rate fell from 2012-2014 and has remained fairly constant since then. However, that violent crime rate is awful. My guess it was about 15 years ago when I had been doing a lot of site selection and real estate development in NJ I made a wrong turn off (I think) Rt 30 and instead of heading for Haddenfield I turned into Camden. I can honestly say I was never more concerned for my life because of the location I was in than at that moment. I literally did a u-turn using part of a parking lot and never looked back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Margarita said: the key word there is SOME. You can't cop to that even on a message board where there are many views and opinions expressed. You lumped me into a "Pro" group after what a few posts of discussion......I dont presume to know your every view and thought on every political thought unless you really do just kowtow to your partiy leaders line hook line and sinker. come on man how many infractions did that cop have before he even met George Floyd..? WHY was he still employed is more the question Im curious about. Hmmmm I think that is a great question that should be posed to the Democratic Police Chief, Democratic County Attorney, Democratic City Council members, Democratic Mayor, Democratic Governor, or Democratic Attorney General - particularly since they had already had 2-3 high profile unjustified killings by Officers from that department in te last few years. Edited June 9, 2020 by billsfan1959 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Margarita said: the key word there is SOME. You can't cop to that even on a message board where there are many views and opinions expressed. You lumped me into a "Pro" group after what a few posts of discussion......I dont presume to know your every view and thought on every political thought unless you really do just kowtow to your partiy leaders line hook line and sinker. come on man how many infractions did that cop have before he even met George Floyd..? WHY was he still employed is more the question Im curious about. Hmmmm In my time on this board, it's a consistent truism that the conservative side here is far less likely to toe the line of the party leaders. There's far more diversity of opinion across the right than the straight parroting of the DNC talking points of the day. Reforming the police unions (and all public service unions) is not something that the majority would oppose. But for most people sitting on the sidelines of this mess are watching with intense interest as this movement can't even get its goals aligned. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Keep in mind people, that although the killing of George Floyd was horrific we average about 10 killings a year (in the U.S.) of unarmed black people by the police. Of those 10 most of them have tried to attack the police physically. Keep things in perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Margarita said: the key word there is SOME. You can't cop to that even on a message board where there are many views and opinions expressed. You lumped me into a "Pro" group after what a few posts of discussion......I dont presume to know your every view and thought on every political thought unless you really do just kowtow to your partiy leaders line hook line and sinker. come on man how many infractions did that cop have before he even met George Floyd..? WHY was he still employed is more the question Im curious about. Hmmmm Have no idea why. Maybe somebody could ask those in charge. His trial will be very interesting. The racial angle is obviously getting a ton of coverage, but these 2 knew each other from the cop's 2nd job. Was there bad blood between them? What made him put his knee to his throat in the 1st place and then keep it there at least 100 seconds after his suspect was beyond subdued? Expecting this will turn out to be bad blood between the 2 and that their history was why the charge against him was elevated. And while there nearly definitely need to be changes in how the department operates, disbanding it seems to be far beyond what is called for. (And whether they don't really mean to disband it, that's what they're asking for and people within their movement DO want that. Until they demonstrate they mean something else, will take their word for it that they want to disband the department.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Taro T said: His trial will be very interesting. The racial angle is obviously getting a ton of coverage, but these 2 knew each other from the cop's 2nd job. Was there bad blood between them? What made him put his knee to his throat in the 1st place and then keep it there at least 100 seconds after his suspect was beyond subdued? Expecting this will turn out to be bad blood between the 2 and that their history was why the charge against him was elevated. This seems to be overblown, but I suppose we'll learn more through the trial. Their overlap of employment was less than a year, ex-officer worked outside security, Floyd worked inside security, and the employer said utilization of both inside and outside was rare and couldn't confirm whether they were ever present there at the same time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 48 minutes ago, Margarita said: the words you are putting into peoples minds are what don't matter. Maybe it takes eductating ourselves and not coming to snap judgments? Just a thought. ****projection alert**** as all your allies on this board call the rest of us all racists and nazis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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