Tiberius Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: During that same five year period, 2015-2020, blacks murdered in this country were 7039, 7881, 7851, 7407, and 7400. Over 35,000 black citizens murdered in that span. Approx 95% were murdered by other black citizens. There is something wrong with that. Of those 35,000+ that were murdered, 1164 (3.1%) were killed by police. Approx 50 were unarmed Too many guns out there 19 minutes ago, westside2 said: I agree, democratic leadership Get use to it. The Blue Wave is coming 2
Tiberius Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 43 minutes ago, Gary M said: out of 320 million, drop in the bucket. Hey, wanted to thank you for making me think. This is another topic, but I found this site which is about something else you posted. Enjoy https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2948/milankovitch-orbital-cycles-and-their-role-in-earths-climate/
billsfan1959 Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Too many guns out there I won't disagree that there are too many guns out there in the hands of criminals. I'm not really sure how that can be eliminated when 90% of firearms used in crimes are illegally possessed. There are strict gun laws on the books and the strictest laws are in the areas with highest gun violence. All of that aside, Tibs, there are much deeper issues at play here regarding the extraordinarily high violent crime rate in black communities. I think real solutions to many of the underlying problems have been igored because of partisan politics on both sides. Yet, even that is separate from the issue of dealing with the extreme levels of violence. You can have all of the empathy and sympathy in the world for how those communities arrived at the state they are now in, particularly regarding violent crime; however, you still have to deal with the reality of what exists. Law enforcement is the front line for that. It doesn't excuse any unjustified use of aggression or force by the police. It also shouldn't be ignored as a contributing factor to the manner in which law enforcement interacts with the community. Complex issues, my friend Edited June 8, 2020 by billsfan1959 1
Doc Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, Tiberius said: So you are happy the police have the power of judge, jury and executioner? Someone has to do it. They receive training but they're still human.
Sig1Hunter Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 26 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: This is as good a thread as any I guess. This was posted by a moderator of a verified LEO-only forum on behalf of a cop in Minneapolis PD that wanted to vent anonymously. Submitted without comment. Great share, Levi. Thank you. The perspective is eye opening. 1 1
Cinga Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Spin, spin, spin.... So she insults those of her own progressive movement by calling them small minded? Not incremental change but transformative? What the hell does that mean anyway? What changes is ANYONE suggesting? We can't just demand change and leave it at that! 1 1
keepthefaith Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: I won't disagree that there are too many guns out there in the hands of criminals. I'm not really sure how that can be eliminated when 90% of firearms used in crimes are illegally possessed. There are strict gun laws on the books and the strictest laws are in the areas with highest gun violence. All of that aside, Tibs, there are much deeper issues at play here regarding the extraordinarily high violent crime rate in black communities. I think real solutions to many of the underlying problems have been igored because of partisan politics on both sides. Yet, even that is separate from the issue of dealing with the extreme levels of violence. You can have all of the empathy and sympathy in the world for how those communities arrived at the state they are now in, particularly regarding violent crime; however, you still have to deal with the reality of what exists. Law enforcement is the front line for that. It doesn't excuse any unjustified use of aggression or force by the police. It also shouldn't be ignored as a contributing factor to the manner in which law enforcement interacts with the community. Complex issues, my friend Parenting has to dramatically improve in low income neighborhoods. Easy to write. Really hard to do. 35 minutes ago, Cinga said: So she insults those of her own progressive movement by calling them small minded? Not incremental change but transformative? What the hell does that mean anyway? What changes is ANYONE suggesting? We can't just demand change and leave it at that! Oh you're not going to get numbers/facts/goals from her crowd. Edited June 8, 2020 by keepthefaith 1
Chef Jim Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 16 hours ago, GregPersons said: OK I am logging off now, but since you got this in under the window, I will give you a bonus chance and tell you that is not the correct definition. You are permitted to take another swing. I will return! I see you've logged back in. May we have the correct definition of racism please? 2 hours ago, Tiberius said: Too many guns out there I agree. How do you propose we get them off the street and out of the wrong people's hands?
Unforgiven Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: I see you've logged back in. May we have the correct definition of racism please? I agree. How do you propose we get them off the street and out of the wrong people's hands? No, he means those guns are fine, it's whiteys guns that are the issue.
Capco Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: The problem in most issues facing our country right now is that no one is willing to recognize that there are no absolute right or wrong answers. Compromise used to be a good thing and now it is looked upon as some kind of evil. I walked in a protest walk in my town the other day. I did so because we have got to come together as a society. There are not many black individuals in my city, but those that I know well and am proud to call my friends have shared experiences of how they are pulled over routinely for traffic stops in our town, when they have done nothing wrong. My daughters have seen the same thing with their friends. I know one young black man who was the star of the high school musical, he was the Phantom in Phantom of the Opera, and he got hassled by some because he was a black kid playing that role. The black community has a lot they have to work on themselves, but as a 64 year old white guy who has never had to deal with the crap many black men and women deal with, I felt it was time to show my support and actually listen to what's going on out there. And it was the experience of a friend of my daughter, who like my daughter is adopted and of Asian heritage, that finally convinced me I can't just sit on the sidelines. Her friend went into a grocery store to run an errand, asked a white clerk for help, and the white clerk told her that she can't wait on people like her. If it had been my daughter, I can't begin to think what I would have done; getting her fired would have been the first step. Different minority, but similar prejudice. So I walked. And I was the oldest person there. And the mostly kids I was walking with chanted, but were respectful and the folks along the route downtown were as well. And as I walked, I made sure to thank each police officer I met along the route for the horrifically difficult job they do each and everyday protecting me and my family and my community. As did a number of the young folks. it is a time to stop and think, a time to discuss calmly and rationally, a time to recognize and value peaceful protest while recognizing looters and rioters and scum like the guy that shot the Las Vegas officer in the back of the head deserve the maximum punishment, a time for police forces and unions to acknowledge they have some guys that should not be wearing the badge and that hen they break the law they too should be held accountable. It is a time for us to all listen to the other guy and put ourselves in his or her shoes. Excellent post. Thank you for your candor.
Capco Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: During that same five year period, 2015-2020, blacks murdered in this country were 7039, 7881, 7851, 7407, and 7400. Over 35,000 black citizens murdered in that span. Approx 95% were murdered by other black citizens. There is something wrong with that. Of those 35,000+ that were murdered, 1164 (3.1%) were killed by police. Approx 50 were unarmed I believe the key to fixing black-on-black violence and crime in black communities is to fix black poverty. The poverty rate for the whole country is 11.8%. For whites, the rate is 8.1%, and for blacks, the rate is a whopping 20.8%. http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html Some might say "well the reason so many blacks are in poverty is because so many are committing crimes and spending time in jail" but in fact the opposite is true. The reason so many blacks commit violent crime is because so many are trapped in poverty because of systemic, passive racism. Remember in our country that public school districts are locally funded. If your community is dirt poor, your high school is almost certain to become a drop out factory. This can affect Americans of all colors, but again due to decades of system racism in the economy, this ends up disproportionately affecting black economic outcomes in predominantly black communities. One thing I would like to see is to replace school taxes with a system of federal funding for all public school districts. Each student in the country should be allotted the same amount of funding with respect to regional cost-of-living differences or Purchasing Power Parity. There shouldn't be such massive public education outcome differences in an egalitarian country like our own. Otherwise, you are left in the situation we are currently in that is more akin to "quasi-public" schools. Imagine there's an excellent school district in your locale with fantastic outcomes. It's public, which means it's free at the point of delivery to all those who attend. But what's the caveat to attend? Well, you have to live in the district... and in this case living in the district almost invariably means owning a +$1 million home. Combine the property tax method with the value of those all those million dollar homes, and you might have several times the amount of money to spend per student than those districts that are dirt poor. The public school system in America as it stands today has financial barriers to entry, which runs counter to why public education was conceived in the first place (i.e. the Enlightenment philosophes believed that education was for everyone, not just the rich). tl;dr: Poverty causes crime. Education lifts people out of poverty. Eliminating/reducing poverty lowers crime rates, increases tax revenues, lowers the need for lifelong public assistance, decreases the need for militarized police, and can help put an end to active racial discrimination. And I didn't blame any one side or political party. 2
mead107 Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 Our governor Cuomo could have put a lot more money into poor districts. now all of a sudden he cares.
Capco Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 1 minute ago, mead107 said: Our governor Cuomo could have put a lot more money into poor districts. now all of a sudden he cares. We can stop pointing fingers and fix the problem. Or we can play the blame game indefinitely with no recourse or solution in play. Which is more important to you? Fixing the problem and looking towards the future or laying blame and staying in the past?
billsfan1959 Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Capco said: I believe the key to fixing black-on-black violence and crime in black communities is to fix black poverty. The poverty rate for the whole country is 11.8%. For whites, the rate is 8.1%, and for blacks, the rate is a whopping 20.8%. http://federalsafetynet.com/us-poverty-statistics.html I agree 100% that bringing up the socioeconic standards of poor communities would be incredibly helpful in al kinds of ways, including crime. I believe that black communities have been pawns and victims of politicians on both sides and also from self-appointed black leaders in this country. It's disgraceful. However, like I said in another post, we can feel all the empathy and sympathy in the world for how these communities arrived at the condition they are in, yet we have to acknowledge the reality and what those conditions are. One of those realities is that there is an extraordinary amount of violent crime. It is an important variable in the interaction between law enforcement and the black communities. 1
Gary M Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Tiberius said: Too many guns out there Not in Chicago !!!! It's a gun free zone!!!
muppy Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) My posting won't add insight into this issue, defunding the police, disbanding police? WHAT!?!?! I honestly don't understand how a city/municipality would act in this extreme a manner without at least attempting a less severe less radical solution first. I don't understand how this would look in reality, I dont understand who these future leaders, experts and architects of a disbanded police society are miraculously going to come from? Minneapolis cannot be advocating no police equaling favoring anarchy right? I'm so confused. Im going to try to research and wrap my head around this but to me this idea is batschitt CRAZY Edited June 8, 2020 by Margarita
mead107 Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Capco said: We can stop pointing fingers and fix the problem. Or we can play the blame game indefinitely with no recourse or solution in play. Which is more important to you? Fixing the problem and looking towards the future or laying blame and staying in the past? Why now. 10 years he could have made a difference. let’s start fresh with someone that really wants to make a difference. mr idiot blaming everyone but himself. goes for a lot of the leaders on both sides.
Just Joshin' Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 21 hours ago, bilzfancy said: Disbanding and defunding are 2 different things, which is it? If it's disbanding, it'll be like the wild west there Intent does not not equal done. I suspect then calmer heads prevail, this will not occur. Then again, Minn is trying hard to be NY or CA. 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: I see you've logged back in. May we have the correct definition of racism please? I agree. How do you propose we get them off the street and out of the wrong people's hands? Why don't we sell some guns to the cartels and then track them when they return to the US? 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, Capco said: We can stop pointing fingers and fix the problem. Or we can play the blame game indefinitely with no recourse or solution in play. Which is more important to you? Fixing the problem and looking towards the future or laying blame and staying in the past? Playing the blame game indefinitely is what politicians want us to do. Look at all the leaders in Congress pretending to be outraged today, staging photo ops of them bending a knee. These people, like Pelosi and Schumer and Nadler and many more have been in power, with the ability to change things, for decades. Yet they've done nothing. Why? Because the blame game keeps them in power and us fighting with one another. Fixing problems is not on their agenda. Want real change? Vote them out. Don't fall in line with their latest propaganda ploy. 3
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