FireChans Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, RaoulDuke79 said: Should be moved to PPP ....no? Eh, hopefully some folks can behave and it doesn’t need to be. 1
HamSandwhich Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 19 hours ago, klos63 said: Reasonable people can disagree on this statement. i.e. Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier in MLB. Made baseball much better to watch in the long run. Can reasonable people agree with the statement you are referencing or are they unreasonable because they don’t go with the flow? The virtue signaling by large companies in this country is astounding. Don’t mistake what it’s a about, $$$.
ProcessAccepted Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 20 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: I’m not sure about momentous. The NFL is so far behind the NBA, this coming from someone who hasn’t watched a full NBA game in years and years, that it’s not even funny. I’m all for improvements, don’t get me wrong. I’m just not sure that Goodell or owners should be getting getting credit for something they are doing so late. Also, proof is in the puddin Roger. It’s your move. Better late than never. I wish it was years ago but I'm glad that Goodell was as clear and direct as he was and that he admitted that the league had gotten it wrong.
Happy Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 40 minutes ago, BarleyNY said: I understood what you wrote, but you’re missing my point. What you don’t like about it is exactly the point of it being done that way. I see. It's ok then for people to pay $100+ for a ticket to get into a game, in addition to paying an exorbitant amount for food and drinks all for the privilege of being educated, made to feel uncomfortable, etc by people who take it upon themselves to voice (including their actions) the misdeeds of a small amount of American police forces? Imagine if any other business got into customer's faces about <name the issue> and expected the customer to come back; won't happen. Same with the NFL, and no, it is not too big to fail. Careful about what you're proposing. 1
Billl Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 19 hours ago, Happy said: Concur that black inclusion in pro sports has made them better. i have to disagree that current events are like Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. The league is already integrated and overall is not racist; there may be players here and there, but as a whole racism is not tolerated. What is happening now concerns race relations with a fraction of the nation's police force. Players are not prevented from playing sports because of their ethnicity. People on your side have always been of the opinion that enough has been done for equality, and they always will.
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Billl said: People on your side have always been of the opinion that enough has been done for equality, and they always will. On whose side? Aren’t you being a bit presumptuous?
Logic Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) This thread has illustrated perfectly how much work there still is to do in this country to eliminate systemic racism, police brutality, and oppression of people of color. The mere fact that there are still people who legitimately believe that there’s no such thing as racism in our country, that “the real problem is black-on-black crime”, or who think that they themselves are in no way racist or complicit in the perpetuation of an unjust system is heartbreaking, though not surprising. All of us, every single one, would do well to reflect on the degree to which our own silence and inaction over the years have contributed to the problems we face today. We have all, in privilege and apathy, ignored systemic racism for too long. I encourage self-reflection, self-education, and if you are moved by this struggle, donation to worthy causes, signing of petitions, and writing to politicians. For anyone who legitimately thinks that our country and specifically our criminal justice system are not absolutely FILLED with racism, I suggest watching “13th” on Netflix. I don’t expect people whose minds are already made up on this issue to actually do so, but I think they’d really benefit from it. As as for the NFL: talk is cheap, and long past due. Let’s see them back up their talk with action. One more thing, for the people in the back: Black lives matter. Edited June 6, 2020 by Logic 1 2 2
HamSandwhich Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 33 minutes ago, SDS said: Have you thought about sitting around a table with other middle-aged white men, who vote other middle-age white men into office, where you all belong to a party with single-digit black people in it and discuss how unfairly you are being treated when you are trying to explain to black people how wrong they are, how this is all their fault and if you blame discrimination on white people they are cowards? It might make you feel better. It also could be that your opinion is just racist. Occam‘s razor. So it’s only middle aged white males who have voted these people in?
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Logic said: This thread has illustrated perfectly how much work there still is to do in this country to eliminate systemic racism, police brutality, and oppression of people of color. The mere fact that there are still people who legitimately believe that there’s no such thing as racism in our country, that “the real problem is black-on-black crime”, or who think that they themselves are in no way racist or complicit in the perpetuation of an unjust system is heartbreaking, though not surprising. All of us, every single one, would do well to reflect on the degree to which our own silence and inaction over the years have contributed to the problems we face today. We have all, in privilege and apathy, ignored systemic racism for too long. I encourage self-reflection, self-education, and if you are moved by this struggle, donation to worthy causes, signing of petitions, and writing to politicians. For anyone who legitimately thinks that our country and specifically our criminal justice system are not absolutely FILLED with racism, I suggest watching “13th” on Netflix. I don’t expect people whose minds are already made up on this issue to actually do so, but I think they’d really benefit from it. As as for the NFL: talk is cheap, and long past due. Let’s see them back up their talk with action. One more thing, for the people in the back: Black lives matter. The only part of this that presents a bone worth picking is the idea that everyone is either racist or complicit. I don’t believe that’s true.
Logic Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 I find it weird how people that are offended by Kaep’s protest AREN’T offended by the constant onslaught of ads during NFL games trying to sell them alcohol. I’d rather see one 2-minute silent protest before a game than 37 beer ads during it. Raising attention for a worthy and vital social cause is far more noble than taking advantage of captive viewership to try to sell them a product linked to addiction, disease and death. Put another way: if you find a quick, silent, peaceful protest profane and distasteful, but you don’t find the constant barrage of advertising profane, I question where your heart lies. And if you say “well, the NFL needs the ad money!”, guess what? They also need the black players. 1
Happy Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, Billl said: People on your side have always been of the opinion that enough has been done for equality, and they always will. on my side? Am I a Confederate Army General, or something? 1
Logic Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: The only part of this that presents a bone worth picking is the idea that everyone is either racist or complicit. I don’t believe that’s true. I respectfully disagree. I’ll use myself as an example. I have seen countless instances of police brutality against black people over the years. I have not lifted a finger to protest, I have not donated money to any causes that work toward fighting systemic racism, I have not written to politicians about it. Simply posting on social media about it or saying “I don’t support that” isn’t enough. I have a voice, and I haven’t chosen to use it for allyship, and that makes me (inadvertently) complicit. Not any more. I will never fail to use my voice or open up my wallet to be an ally to my black brothers and sisters again. White silence is violence. 1
Happy Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Logic said: I find it weird how people that are offended by Kaep’s protest AREN’T offended by the constant onslaught of ads during NFL games trying to sell them alcohol. I’d rather see one 2-minute silent protest before a game than 37 beer ads during it. Raising attention for a worthy and vital social cause is far more noble than taking advantage of captive viewership to try to sell them a product linked to addiction, disease and death. Put another way: if you find a quick, silent, peaceful protest profane and distasteful, but you don’t find the constant barrage of advertising profane, I question where your heart lies. And if you say “well, the NFL needs the ad money!”, guess what? They also need the black players. I'm lost on equating beer ads with Kaepernick's protests. I have no idea how you came up with that apples to oranges comparison. Whether you agree with it or not, people view Kaepernick's stance disrespectful; no one thinks twice about a beer ad.
SDS Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Happy said: I'm lost on equating beer ads with Kaepernick's protests. I have no idea how you came up with that apples to oranges comparison. Whether you agree with it or not, people view Kaepernick's stance disrespectful; no one thinks twice about a beer ad. They are both messages. What is for the social good the other is to get you drunk. Why is one offensive and one not noticed? 1
Logic Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Happy said: I'm lost on equating beer ads with Kaepernick's protests. I have no idea how you came up with that apples to oranges comparison. Whether you agree with it or not, people view Kaepernick's stance disrespectful; no one thinks twice about a beer ad. Thats literally my point. People who find Kaep’s protest disrespectful seem to feel that his using captive NFL viewership as an audience to his social justice message is wrong. “Stick to sports!”, they say. Meanwhile, Anheuser-Busch uses captive NFL viewership as a way to sell a product that is linked to 88,000 deaths a year in our country, and the same people don’t find THAT disrespectful. Kneeling to bring attention to a cause that wants to SAVE lives is enough to get people to want to turn off their TVs and swear off the NFL. Meanwhile, the constant barrage of ads during an NFL broadcast for a product linked to 88,000 deaths a year doesn’t make them bat an eye. Where’s the “stick to sports!” Cry then?
Bob in STL Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, Logic said: I find it weird how people that are offended by Kaep’s protest AREN’T offended by the constant onslaught of ads during NFL games trying to sell them alcohol. I’d rather see one 2-minute silent protest before a game than 37 beer ads during it. Raising attention for a worthy and vital social cause is far more noble than taking advantage of captive viewership to try to sell them a product linked to addiction, disease and death. Put another way: if you find a quick, silent, peaceful protest profane and distasteful, but you don’t find the constant barrage of advertising profane, I question where your heart lies. And if you say “well, the NFL needs the ad money!”, guess what? They also need the black players. You would have had a bigger problem back in the days when they sold cigarettes on TV. The puts tons of money into some classic advertising for the worst product ever. 1
FireChans Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, SDS said: They are both messages. What is for the social good the other is to get you drunk. Why is one offensive and one not noticed? One was during the national anthem and one was during a stoppage in play? 2 minutes ago, Logic said: Thats literally my point. People who find Kaep’s protest disrespectful seem to feel that his using captive NFL viewership as an audience to his social justice message is wrong. “Stick to sports!”, they say. Meanwhile, Anheuser-Busch uses captive NFL viewership as a way to sell a product that is linked to 88,000 deaths a year in our country, and the same people don’t find THAT disrespectful. Kneeling to bring attention to a cause that wants to SAVE lives is enough to get people to want to turn off their TVs and swear off the NFL. Meanwhile, the constant barrage of ads during an NFL broadcast for a product linked to 88,000 deaths a year doesn’t make them bat an eye. Where’s the “stick to sports!” Cry then? Just wait til you find out about how many deaths are linked to automobile accidents. You’ll never have a normal blood pressure during a Ford ad ever again. 1
Logic Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) If folks don't like the beer ad comparison, how about the "Salute to Service" week? If people feel that football is not the right forum for political/social issues and the league should "stick to sports", shouldn't we stop with the military flyovers, camouflage gear, and troops at games? Edited June 6, 2020 by Logic 2
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