Westside Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, SDS said: it also could be the fact that ignorant racist views are just in fact racist. Occam’s razor. Who decides what's racist? I'm against the killing of George Floyd, I'm against police brutality. I think everyone should be judged on their character, not their skin color. Am I a racist?
FireChans Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, aristocrat said: also lebron, don’t say anything bad about China cause it costs me money. Lebron is just as big of a hypocrite as the next guy. The NBA STILL has a ban on Free Hong Kong posters in their arenas. Oh and any mention of the Chinese concentration camps. Pro-tip for everyone, being "brand loyal" when EVERY brand is about maximizing profits is being silly or willfully ignorant. Notice how brands are active NOW and silent months and years ago. They feel the wind turning and THEN decide to come out politically. 4
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 31 minutes ago, Putin said: I’m sorry you lost you’re mom I can’t even imagine how painful that must be may she R I P ? . There is nothing divisive about fighting racist I’m with you on that 110% !!! that’s not what I met , where we obviously disagree is whether or not National Anthem is the right place I appreciate that. It was a couple years of the worst situation that you could imagine. It’s a brutal, brutal disease. In terms of the “when” I guess that the anthem is better than 2nd and 6. I’m only kind of kidding here. That’s an opportunity for them when they have their most eyes without having any impact on the actual game. I suppose the 2 minute warning of the 1st half could work? You could do it similar to the 7th inning stretch. It’s a moment that pauses the game to bring eyes on it. Just thinking out loud here... 1
Westside Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I think you could benefit from a break in the action. I'm starting to realize I'm not allowed to have a different opinion of others. Is that what's this country is coming too?
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Laura Ingraham: LeBron James: "Shut up and Dribble, keep political commentary to yourself" Drew Brees: "He's allowed to have an opinion" That's sarcasm, right? Although I guess she would in truth likely write stuff to silence voices of oppression Sarcasm it is
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: 1.) Hyperbole is a time honored literary tool used for emphasizing a larger point. I know you know this. It’s possible CP knows this, too, and he didn’t see the need to insult the intelligence of people by having to explain that to us. It was clear to me he was being purposely hyperbolic to emphasize his larger point so I suspect others who also saw how clear that was chose to disregard that just to discredit his message. That said and in retrospect, CP should have explained the reason for the hyperbole to better serve his own interests. Then again, that wouldn’t have satisfied anyone was outraged and offended. 2.) The 49ers organization supported his decision to protest during the anthem. In retrospect you’re probably correct about #1, and I think that a more measured approach would have been more beneficial Regarding #2, that’s my personal opinion as to how I would feel. I have a fan base and a business to consider, and what do I do the next time when a player wants to protest on the field for a cause that may not be benevolent? Again JMO
K-9 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Posted June 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, westside2 said: Spare me your liberal indignation. Have you bowed down and ask for forgiveness yet? The reason Democratic cities are such sh$tholes have nothing to do with racist whites. People need to be responsible for their own actions in life. Stop the blame game. Do you have white guilt? Do you have a clue?
FireChans Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: Sarcasm it is Don't try to walk back your subscription to the Fox News Opinion newsletter you swine! 1
krf139 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 We all have to pander to this movement now regardless of opinions - if we don’t, we’ll be called racist. The NFL is no different
Westside Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: Do you have a clue? Why don't you answer the question? Instead of trying to insult.
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, westside2 said: I'm starting to realize I'm not allowed to have a different opinion of others. Is that what's this country is coming too? Oh you can have an opinion, and you can express it. I’m saying that you seem to be getting a bit emotional and the content of your contributions isn’t leading to constructive discussion. Like I said: I know a thing or two about that type of delivery
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, westside2 said: I'm all for protesting racism. Just not during sports. Racism has been around before we had this country. It didn't start with America. If we're going to have this discussion, let's be honest. Totally honest. Not this, if you don't agree with me, or if your white and haven't asked for forgiveness BS. Shout "all lives matter" during a protest or riot and see how peaceful people are. I think my chances of success are slim, but I will try some analogies here. 1) Your friend passes away from cancer. An event is organized to raise awareness of cancer and the need to fight it. You stand up and yell "All patients matter! More people die from heart disease!" It's true that more people die from heart disease than of cancer, but it's also totally beside the point at an event organized to focus attention on the specific health problem of cancer. You will not be well-received 2) You hear sirens and run out to see fire trucks racing down the street. You see smoke and observe that your neighbor's house is on fire. As the firefighters are hooking the hose to the hydrant and preparing to spray down the burning house, you run down the street and get in their face and insist they must give attention to YOUR house too, because "all houses matter". You're correct, all houses matter but it's also totally beside the point because right now the house which needs firefighter attention is the one that is burning. You will not be well received. Everybody knows that all lives matter. But if the protest is against excessive force used on black people by law officers who have wide latitude and are seldom accountable for the injuries or deaths they cause, then it's appropriate to focus attention on that by saying "black lives matter". Insisting that "all lives matter" in that context is like insisting "heart diseases matters!" at a cancer fundraiser or insisting "all houses matter!" while your neighbor's house is on fire. 4 2
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 19 minutes ago, westside2 said: I'm all for protesting racism. Just not during sports. Racism has been around before we had this country. It didn't start with America. If we're going to have this discussion, let's be honest. Totally honest. Not this, if you don't agree with me, or if your white and haven't asked for forgiveness BS. Shout "all lives matter" during a protest or riot and see how peaceful people are. Then why is protesting cancer okay during a game? That’s where I’m having a hard time seeing the difference. Both are topics that we universally agree with. If someone DOESN’T agree than the protest is even more necessary.
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, krf139 said: We all have to pander to this movement now regardless of opinions - if we don’t, we’ll be called racist. The NFL is no different Is it pandering to simply say “what is it that you want me to know? I’m listening”? Because that’s something that I’ve struggled with quite a bit (not just on this subject but in general). You might find that what you believe isn’t far off from the people that you feel you’d be pandering to...
Westside Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Oh you can have an opinion, and you can express it. I’m saying that you seem to be getting a bit emotional and the content of your contributions isn’t leading to constructive discussion. Like I said: I know a thing or two about that type of delivery I wish I could have a discussion without being called a racist because I have a different opinions. Believe me, I'm not emotional. I'm not going to be bullied by a mob group I don't agree with.
K-9 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, thebandit27 said: In retrospect you’re probably correct about #1, and I think that a more measured approach would have been more beneficial Regarding #2, that’s my personal opinion as to how I would feel. I have a fan base and a business to consider, and what do I do the next time when a player wants to protest on the field for a cause that may not be benevolent? Again JMO Regrading #2, that was my point; that in spite of what the opinion of their fan base might be and the potential impact on their business, they still issued a statement fully supporting his right to protest during the anthem. I remember all the grand pronouncements made around here about how the NFL and Nike would be really hurt financially when the masses of enraged fans boycotted them over CP’s and others’ anthem protests. That never happened. I remember that enraged Steelers fan who burned all his Steeler gear in his backyard, though. Ooh, that really showed ‘em!
SDS Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 25 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I had two problems with Kaep’s kneeling from the beginning: 1) the original statement where he contended that unarmed black men are murdered by police daily; I understand it’s a very sensitive subject, and yes, it’s 100% true that even one is too many, but his narrative was false. It made his overall purpose of raising awareness of racial and cultural inequities diluted. That’s a shame because I think there would’ve been less backlash if his initial commentary had been more grounded or measured. I’d like to think that I’d have been more receptive, As I admit that it made me listen less. 2) protesting is something to be done on one’s own time; not on the time of a person that is paying you millions of dollars to play a game. All of that said: the players had every right to protest, so long as they were willing to accept that owners had every right to respond as they saw fit. 1. You are giving unequal importance to the messenger over the message. Colin Kaepernick was not elected nor vetted to be the face of any movement. It is something he decided to do on his own. Maybe he felt that something is up, but he got some things wrong. Maybe he showed bad taste in socks and T-shirts. The question isn’t if he is the best spokesperson for the situation, it is if there is a situation at all. If you agree that there is a situation to be addressed then Colin Kaepernick’s role recedes to the back, as the larger issue comes to the front. Attacking the messenger seems to be missing the point by a fair amount. 2. Why are you speaking against someone else’s individual employment situation and making a negative comparison to other peoples? It’s not the same job. People don’t have the same rules. Maybe you’re not allowed to do something similar, but maybe I am. Maybe he is. It seems to me pretty much between him and his employer.
FireChans Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, SDS said: 1. You are giving unequal importance to the messenger over the message. Colin Kaepernick was not elected nor vetted to be the face of any movement. It is something he decided to do on his own. Maybe he felt that something is up, but he got some things wrong. Maybe he showed bad taste in socks and T-shirts. The question isn’t if he is the best spokesperson for the situation, it is if there is a situation at all. If you agree that there is a situation to be addressed then Colin Kaepernick’s role recedes to the back, as the larger issue comes to the front. Attacking the messenger seems to be missing the point by a fair amount. 2. Why are you speaking against someone else’s individual employment situation and making a negative comparison to other peoples? It’s not the same job. People don’t have the same rules. Maybe you’re not allowed to do something similar, but maybe I am. Maybe he is. It seems to me pretty much between him and his employer. Ideally, this is true but history tells us all great sociopolitical movements are led by leaders who exemplify the message and are deified for it. There's a reason we have an MLK day, after all.
SDS Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, westside2 said: I wish I could have a discussion without being called a racist because I have a different opinions. Believe me, I'm not emotional. I'm not going to be bullied by a mob group I don't agree with. Have you thought about sitting around a table with other middle-aged white men, who vote other middle-age white men into office, where you all belong to a party with single-digit black people in it and discuss how unfairly you are being treated when you are trying to explain to black people how wrong they are, how this is all their fault and if you blame discrimination on white people they are cowards? It might make you feel better. It also could be that your opinion is just racist. Occam‘s razor. 1 1
thebandit27 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, SDS said: 1. You are giving unequal importance to the messenger over the message. Colin Kaepernick was not elected nor vetted to be the face of any movement. It is something he decided to do on his own. Maybe he felt that something is up, but he got some things wrong. Maybe he showed bad taste in socks and T-shirts. The question isn’t if he is the best spokesperson for the situation, it is if there is a situation at all. If you agree that there is a situation to be addressed then Colin Kaepernick’s role recedes to the back, as the larger issue comes to the front. Attacking the messenger seems to be missing the point by a fair amount. 2. Why are you speaking against someone else’s individual employment situation and making a negative comparison to other peoples? It’s not the same job. People don’t have the same rules. Maybe you’re not allowed to do something similar, but maybe I am. Maybe he is. It seems to me pretty much between him and his employer. 1. I believe it’s more that I put too much emphasis on the details and not the sentiment. 2. As I said to K-9, that was purely my opinion. And I also made it clear that the players and owners are free to do as they please as long as they accept the fallout
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