FireChans Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Couldn’t agree more here. You almost have to try to fail. Imagine if they were in South Florida doing this? If the Pegulas were the owners of the Tampa Bay Lightning, the team would have folded by now.
Peter Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, FireChans said: Considering how big of a hockey town Buffalo is, it’s particularly egregious. 10 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Couldn’t agree more here. You almost have to try to fail. Imagine if they were in South Florida doing this? . . . except that each of the hockey people that they hired was well respected and considered a good hire at the time. They then gave those hockey people the resources to succeed. They have done their bit. P.S. Buffalo is a big hockey town . . . in terms of fan interest but not necessarily in terms of dollars. Edited June 6, 2020 by Peter 1
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Peter said: . . . except that each of the hockey people that they hired was well respected and considered good hires at the time. They then gave those hockey people the resources to succeed. They have done their bit. P.S. Buffalo is a big hockey town . . . in terms of fan interest but not necessarily in terms of dollars. Was Jason Botterill considered a great hire? Kruger was about their 10th choice. The arena is falling apart. That’s all a part of it. Ownership is in charge of EVERYTHING. They’ve failed as owners of the Sabres to this point. They’ve done it while acquiring 2 generational talents. That’s hard to do. In terms of the Bills, they got the right people. It was a mess prior. Now they are hands off there. We can go back and forth all night but it’s exhausting. You believe that they are good owners. I believe that they are bad owners. To each his own 14 minutes ago, Peter said: 1. I am glad we agree. 2. Unless one wants to sell the team, an increase in valuation is besides the point. I hope they never sell given that I question just who is out there who would be willing buy the Sabres for that amount - much less keep them in Buffalo given the finances. I consider the Pegulas to be great owners. First, they are committed to keeping both teams in Buffalo. Second, they have given both teams the resources that they need - not to mention much more than any prior owner. Third, they hired people who were respected or had been successful. Some of those did not work out, but that is true for many teams. I continue to give the Pegulas the benefit of the doubt and am grateful that they appeared out of freaking nowhere and bought the Sabres and Bills. Prior to their purchasing the Bills, I always had worried about the team moving elsewhere. I no longer have to worry about that . . . unless their detractors who scream they should sell the teams have their way. I’d bet every dime that I have that if the Sabres went up for sale tomorrow the sale price wOils be north of $500M. 1
notwoz Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 As a subscriber who thinks the Athletic is more sizzle than steak, here's my two cents: It appears the VC investors are putting a serious squeeze on the management of the Athletic. Venture capitalists invest in start-up or early stage companies that are perceived to have high growth potential. They take a substantial stake in the company for their investment. Their goal is to turn that investment into a s**tload of money. They often expect to see 25 percent annual returns for the first years of the company's life. That way, they expect to make a killing when the company sells its shares on the stock market, so that they can sell their stake and move on. For the record, VC investing is high-risk, and many of the companies don't pan out. So the winning investments have to be home runs to make up for the losers. The NFL, NBA, NHL and baseball seasons all in limbo because of the current health crisis. That's not a good scenario for a publication built on sports reporting. This situation has put the kibosh on growth at the Athletic and the VC investors are are getting nervous and demanding profits, which they need in order to sell the product to other investors. If you can't grow revenue, you cut costs. If that doesn't work, you pull the plug. And VC investors will do that without a second thought, or a second of remorse. 2
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Limeaid said: Just like new stadiums financed by PSLs and taxes - they do it because they WANT to not because they NEED to. That’s certainly true to an extent. The only major difference is the precedent that’s been set. It’s easy in stadium financing to go the public/private route because some government will. That gives you the leverage with your government. It’s been done so many times that it’s just the way that it is. In terms of handling a pandemic everyone is doing it for the first time. Every league, team, concession company, etc... is flying blind. They are trying to learn from people operating low Korean Baseball and the Bundesliga. At the same time there isn’t a playbook. It’s trial and error as opposed to a proven recipe.
BillsFan4 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) https://www.forbes.com/teams/buffalo-sabres/#e96bb1564f37 The Forbes link posted earlier in this thread shows the Sabres operating income (Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) as $1.9M for 2019. It also shows they operated at a $13 million loss in 2017. Their best year ever since buying the team shows a $5M operating income. Most years seen to come in around roughly $2M. This doesn’t factor in PSE so I can’t really comment on their operating income. Im not really weighing in on this overall argument. I don’t really know enough about why they were fired to make a judgement but I can definitely see both sides. Edited June 6, 2020 by BillsFan4
vanhalen26 Posted June 7, 2020 Posted June 7, 2020 My athletics renewal was due next month. With the lack of sports I hit cancel. In return I was given a free bonus 3 months.
SDS Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Buffalo619 said: It’s about time. Their business model is unsustainable. Advertising is where the money is at. Not some paywall,, country club, member only site. They should shut down the entire company, avoid bankruptcy while they can. What is your experience that you are so confident about this? 2
GunnerBill Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 12 hours ago, SDS said: What is your experience that you are so confident about this? He has no evidence. If advertising was the successful model for online journalism it would have worked by now and it hasn't. More and more sources are going behind paywalls because if you want quality the advertising model doesn't work. If you want to have dumbed down quality, paying journos straight out of college next to nothing then fine, rely on advertising. On 6/6/2020 at 10:05 PM, Kirby Jackson said: 1. Of course they can make whatever decision they want. They aren’t immune to criticism either. 2. Define “making money.” A franchise value increase of $25M if certainly a good year. In terms of the Pegulas they have been a godsend to Buffalo for saving the teams. They aren’t good owners. Both of those things are true IMO. They were extremely fortunate to get Beane and McDermott. It took a few tries but they were able to get elite leadership. They still haven’t managed that with the Sabres. This is 100% how I see it.
Mr. WEO Posted June 8, 2020 Posted June 8, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 5:26 PM, Kirby Jackson said: Was Jason Botterill considered a great hire? Kruger was about their 10th choice. The arena is falling apart. That’s all a part of it. Ownership is in charge of EVERYTHING. They’ve failed as owners of the Sabres to this point. They’ve done it while acquiring 2 generational talents. That’s hard to do. In terms of the Bills, they got the right people. It was a mess prior. Now they are hands off there. We can go back and forth all night but it’s exhausting. You believe that they are good owners. I believe that they are bad owners. To each his own I’d bet every dime that I have that if the Sabres went up for sale tomorrow the sale price wOils be north of $500M. Exactly. Unfortunately, you cannot convince a true believer of what is plainly in front of his face. Their ownership of that franchise was an immediate disaster and has been since. On 6/6/2020 at 7:07 PM, BillsFan4 said: https://www.forbes.com/teams/buffalo-sabres/#e96bb1564f37 The Forbes link posted earlier in this thread shows the Sabres operating income (Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) as $1.9M for 2019. It also shows they operated at a $13 million loss in 2017. Their best year ever since buying the team shows a $5M operating income. Most years seen to come in around roughly $2M. This doesn’t factor in PSE so I can’t really comment on their operating income. Im not really weighing in on this overall argument. I don’t really know enough about why they were fired to make a judgement but I can definitely see both sides. It's a break even business overall---but more than made up for with the free NFL money. My guess is that their loss leaders are the restaurant/hotel part of the business. Overly ambitious projects hemorrhaging cash.
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