Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, GregPersons said: No. The left wants an end to police violence. Then why are they running Biden, a man whose greatest congressional accomplishment was the Crime Bill which did more to tilt the system against black and brown folk than any other piece of legislation since Reconstruction. So they don't want to end police violence, the left wants power back for themselves. That you can't see that distinction proves, yet again, how deeply stupid of a person you actually are. 1
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: His usual nonsense Yeah gee, you'd almost have a point, if you weren't... making it all up to make yourself feel like you understand me and the world. I love to see y'all try to make little boxes to put this in so you can figure out a way to wrap your mind around it. I'm Chinese, I'm Canadian, I'm a paid protestor, I'm a Marxist, and I'm an Italian socialist. I can't wait to find out what I will be on the NEXT page! Just now, Deranged Rhino said: Then why are they running Biden, a man whose greatest congressional accomplishment was the Crime Bill which did more to tilt the system against black and brown folk than any other piece of legislation since Reconstruction. So they don't want to end police violence, the left wants power back for themselves. That you can't see that distinction proves, yet again, how deeply stupid of a person you actually are. You're bringing up Biden like I'm going to defend him. This isn't about Biden. Read my posts, dickweed. This is bigger than any one president. I have said this multiple times. Including once, very recently. READ.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, GregPersons said: Yeah gee, you'd almost have a point, if you weren't... making it all up to make yourself feel like you understand me and the world. I love to see y'all try to make little boxes to put this in so you can figure out a way to wrap your mind around it. I'm Chinese, I'm Canadian, I'm a paid protestor, I'm a Marxist, and I'm an Italian socialist. I can't wait to find out what I will be on the NEXT page! I understand you completely. You've shown your true colors: 1. You're deeply stupid. 2. You're a proud Marxist. 3. You're deeply stupid. That's what you are and what you represent. You're on the losing side of history. Enjoy. 1
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I understand you completely. You've shown your true colors: 1. You're deeply stupid. 2. You're a proud Marxist. 3. You're deeply stupid. That's what you are and what you represent. You're on the losing side of history. Enjoy. I just think you're so cute. You really believe yourself! And then you... say the things you say! AND YOU REALLY BELIEVE THEM! EDIT — But hey let's talk Marxism since you brought it up. What's your problem with Marx? Has he not been proven entirely correct by history? What about his thoughts on Capital do you find disagreeable, specifically? It's all pretty sensible if you actually, y'know... read it. Instead of being scared of it. Edited June 6, 2020 by GregPersons 5
Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, GregPersons said: I just think you're so cute. You really believe yourself! And then you... say the things you say! AND YOU REALLY BELIEVE THEM! I'm just reading the screed you've written. It answers it all. Your posts prove you're deeply stupid and a Marxist. Then to remove all doubt you say this: 2 minutes ago, GregPersons said: EDIT — But hey let's talk Marxism since you brought it up. What's your problem with Marx? Has he not been proven entirely correct by history? 100+ million dead in his name in the last century alone. No, Marx was not proven correct by history, let alone "entirely". Keep proving you're a deeply -- and I do mean DEEPLY -- stupid person. If you closed your mouth you'd suffocate, that's how stupid of a human you are. 2
Troll Toll Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, GregPersons said: No. The left wants an end to police violence. Cops don't need guns. Every example of a "good cop" doing something productive, 10/10 times, they are providing a service that is unarmed. They are mediating, helping reunite lost children from parents, breaking up disputes before they get violent. I keep asking for someone to supply a story with this, and so far nobody has supplied even one — Looking for a news story where a cop directly saved a human life with their firearm. Not "killing a gangbanger who would later kill people" or anything speculative. An example of someone breaking into a home and endangering lives with a weapon of their own, and the cops stopping that with excessive force. What I'd like to see is statistics. Number of lives directly saved by cops with guns Number of lives directly ended by cops with guns Also, curious to know... Number of rape cases solved by police Number of rape cases dismissed by police Because every story I have seen and heard from the women in my life/network/beyond, any woman who reported rape to the police suffered an extremely humiliating experience, and found no help. So the real question is. What are the actual, honest to God, real life services that Police are carrying out that are so essential? Because I really think most of America is mixed up on where their information is coming from. I think people have seen so many cop shows, they think cops are solving that amount of cases in reality. Well, you’ve already written off the reason they are useful. It is true that when seconds matter, the cops are minutes away, which is why the 2nd amendment is so important. That said, people don’t generally kill one person and stop. Cops find the killer and keep him from doing further harm to the community. 2
SoCal Deek Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, GregPersons said: So the real question is. What are the actual, honest to God, real life services that Police are carrying out that are so essential? Because I really think most of America is mixed up on where their information is coming from. I think people have seen so many cop shows, they think cops are solving that amount of cases in reality. And the shark has now officially been jumped! You believe we’re supposed to measure the need for police by the number of crimes they solve?
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I'm just reading the screed you've written. It answers it all. Your posts prove you're deeply stupid and a Marxist. Then to remove all doubt you say this: 100+ million dead in his name in the last century alone. No, Marx was not proven correct by history, let alone "entirely". Keep proving you're a deeply -- and I do mean DEEPLY -- stupid person. If you closed your mouth you'd suffocate, that's how stupid of a human you are. Oh wow great point, I forgot Marx asked people to fight in his name. Oh word? He didn't do that at all? Do you also blame Jesus for the millions killed in his name? Just wondering if you're consistent, on anything at all. His ideas also should be thrown out, too? Answer me, B word. I just, again. You are adorable. You're like a child without the capacity to learn. 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: And the shark has now officially been jumped! You believe we’re supposed to measure the need for police by the number of crimes they solve? Nah you're right, that's unfair to expect competency from police. I think you should judge them by the amount of innocent black people they kill. They're doing GRRRRREAT! 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, GregPersons said: Oh wow great point, I forgot Marx asked people to fight in his name. Oh word? He didn't do that at all? Do you also blame Jesus for the millions killed in his name? Just wondering if you're consistent, on anything at all. His ideas also should be thrown out, too? Answer me, B word. I just, again. You are adorable. You're like a child without the capacity to learn. "Answer me, B word" -- the sound a man makes when he's winning an argument, not being roundly beaten to a pulp. Marx's ideas are pernicious and proven to be evil. Yes, you're a fool if you think he was "proven entirely correct" by history. If he was, show me one successful Marxist state in existence today... go!
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Troll Toll said: Well, you’ve already written off the reason they are useful. It is true that when seconds matter, the cops are minutes away, which is why the 2nd amendment is so important. That said, people don’t generally kill one person and stop. Cops find the killer and keep him from doing further harm to the community. Yeah, after the fact. Detectives who are solving the crime don't need guns for that. So again, not really seeing any kind of real argument for cops having guns other than it seems to help a lot in the shoot-outs we see in movies & TV. But hey, @Deranged Rhinolives in Los Angeles. He can tell you about the heroic cops last year who shot and killed an innocent bystander at the Trader Joes' standoff, a situation that spun out of control because of the LAPD's recklessness. And how the thing that actually worked in the end was...... you guessed it....... non violent tactics.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, Jaraxxus said: I hear north Korea is lovely this time of year He's truly, breathtakingly stupid. It's kind of impressive. 1
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: "Answer me, B word" -- the sound a man makes when he's winning an argument, not being roundly beaten to a pulp. Marx's ideas are pernicious and proven to be evil. Yes, you're a fool if you think he was "proven entirely correct" by history. If he was, show me one successful Marxist state in existence today... go! Oh they're evil! Oh we're judging them by the successful states! Well for one thing, the socialist countries that always rank highest on life satisfaction — Netherlands, Sweden, etc — are following in the ideas of Marx. Not convenient to your argument. The other thing, and I wonder if you know or if you're playing stupid, is that the US government -- the CIA -- specifically overthrew or meddled with or otherwise significantly interfered in every instance of a communist/socialist state getting off the ground. Cold War, ever hear of it? Bay of Pigs was a pretty famous example. But go ahead and pretend it's because of the "marketplace of ideas" rejecting it in favor of our brilliant system in place. You've never read Marx, it's actually becoming clear to me now, have you? It's not even that long. It's a pamphlet. He was like 19 or 20 when he wrote it. He was entirely accurate in his predictive models. You really haven't even read his Manifesto have you? You bring it up all the time and you haven't even read it. 1
SoCal Deek Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GregPersons said: Nah you're right, that's unfair to expect competency from police. I think you should judge them by the amount of innocent black people they kill. They're doing GRRRRREAT! So let me get this straight, the next time I’m pulled over for not coming to a complete stop, I should ask the officer if he/she is ‘on the case’? Greg....you’re truly an idiot! Edited June 6, 2020 by SoCal Deek
Golden Goat Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, GregPersons said: EDIT — But hey let's talk Marxism since you brought it up. What's your problem with Marx? The hair. I can't unsee it. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, GregPersons said: Well for one thing, the socialist countries that always rank highest on life satisfaction — Netherlands, Sweden, etc — are following in the ideas of Marx. Not convenient to your argument. Incorrect -- and shows once again how deeply stupid you are. Those countries are free market societies. Not Marxist. But again, you're too stupid to even know the difference. 5 minutes ago, GregPersons said: The other thing, and I wonder if you know or if you're playing stupid, is that the US government -- the CIA -- specifically overthrew or meddled with or otherwise significantly interfered in every instance of a communist/socialist state getting off the ground. Cold War, ever hear of it? Bay of Pigs was a pretty famous example. But go ahead and pretend it's because of the "marketplace of ideas" rejecting it in favor of our brilliant system in place. Yes, I've never spent any time researching and writing about the CIA overreach. Of course it's irrelevant to Marxism being ideologically sound... but when you're too deeply stupid to understand basic facts, you argue make silly arguments like this. 6 minutes ago, GregPersons said: You've never read Marx, it's actually becoming clear to me now, have you? It's not even that long. It's a pamphlet. He was like 19 or 20 when he wrote it. He was entirely accurate in his predictive models. You really haven't even read his Manifesto have you? You bring it up all the time and you haven't even read it. I have advanced degrees in history, yes I've read it. And unlike you, I understood it. After all that, he can't name ONE successful Marxist state. Not one. But he believes that Marx was "entirely accurate in his predictive models". When someone exposes themselves to be deeply stupid, believe them. 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GregPersons said: Hi. Thanks for the tip. First of all — let's be EXTREMELY clear — Property Violence =/= Human Violence These are not the same. They are not the same conversation. Are you familiar with COINTELPRO? I have to imagine you are. Do you know why I would ask you this specifically with regard to looting and property violence? Because these attitudes, common in modern society, are outgrowths from those (many) attempts to frame the plight of Black America to White Americans as being unreasonable. I understand this is really difficult for people, and I'm not being sarcastic here. Because it does not seem to initially make moral or ethical sense. Why is property violence okay? It's obviously wrong, it's obviously a crime. But this is imagining things in a separate reality instead of the one we live in, devoid of all context. In that alternate universe, I would agree. In this universe, it is not the place of White America to say what is and is not an acceptable form of protest from Black America. Is that unfair? That is still the wrong way of thinking of it. And this, I am arguing, is a result of generations of willful government action to pollute discourse and divide White and Black America for as long as possible. It lasted a very very long time, and we are still in it today. It has never been reckoned with this in this country, in any honest way. That's why I am pushing people here to say their true feelings. There is a lot of national repression on this topic. And as I've said many times already, we know for a fact, the White Establishment (not all Whites individually), that power structure wants nothing more than to put this away and not address it. That's true regardless of if the president is Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump. However back you want to go. BY THE WAY — I'm aware this can seems real ***** wild to people who have not been affected by racism. If you are still struggling with the elementary concepts here, like systemic racism, privilege, etc, then this just seems like crazy talk. It's also why I'm not interested in being anyone's tutor on this. You are big boys who are capable of finding things. White America has -- forget about reparations -- they still refuse to just acknowledge the true history of this country. It's hard to White people to understand this. Again, "race" is only a "touchy" conversation for white people. It's not "touchy" to non-whites, because they have to live with this every day. So to white guys, this is "theory." This is "Marxist theory." To actual people, this is jut the reality of life. Step one is to acknowledge that White America and Black America have never been on equal footing. (Then the racists try to make it seem like you're saying black people are inequal). I am saying — the treatment between the two needs to be first understood. It needs to be understood how this is a long series of cause/effect chain reactions throughout this country's history that has led to the present day. The protests and police violence did not fall out of the sky. They are the obvious culmination of long periods of anger and frustration that have boiled over. Why is that? Because you still see people, probably all over this board, insisting that Black people should just "get over it." Because "it happened a long time ago" and it "wasn't my fault." As though the crime's impact was limited to the initial slavers. The impact extends to RIGHT NOW. So when people unaffected by racism try to tell people who are affected by racism that doesn't exist — that, too, is violence. If property damage is violence, then absolutely so too is economic/social/mental/emotional/psychic violence. And that has been applied, in addition to police violence AND property violence, against Black people throughout history. It is very difficult to explain why you should care about this. It is very difficult to explain to someone with a boot on your face or your throat that this is not right. Why would they agree with that? They're the ones in the power position. Part of me knows typing this out is pointless and I should just call you a *****stick and move on. But I can't help but try to give people a chance. Prove me wrong for doing so. Here’s the rub: you get to decide only how you will behave. You have no say, what so ever, in how I respond. I want you to understand the deeply held morality of the person you are speaking with. I think that government is violence, and I Think that aggression is immoral. I think that the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow has set black Americans back in ways that are massive and unquantifiable. But I also think a few other things: police violence is not a race problem, but rather is a police state problem. Since 2017 55% of all police killings have been white people, while 27% have been black people. This means more than twice as many whites are killed than blacks. Of course, given that blacks make up 13% of the population, and whites make up 72%, the per capita rate of black deaths is much higher. And if you only look at that figure it’s easy to shout racism, but it’s much harder to do so if you try to understand the numbers. A 2017 Harvard University study conducted by RG Fryer concluded that in similar situations blacks were actually less likely to have a gun drawn on them, or to be shot, than a white counterpart (though they were found more likely to be otherwise harassed in general) by police. So, given this, why are there so many more black deaths per capita? Socio-economic reasons. Black Americans are far more likely to be poor than white Americans. Some of this certainly has to do, as I expressed earlier, with the legacy of slavery. However slavery was abolished in this country almost 200 years ago, and people around the world have historically been resilient after finding freedom, and black Americans are just as industrious and résiliant as any other people, so I think the true cause of persistant black poverty lies elsewhere. The root of the current black poverty problem rests at the feet of Lyndon B. Johnson and his “Great Society”, which destroyed the black family and created generations of purposeless, listless black men. But I digress... Poverty correlates strongly with crime. The black community is disproportionately impoverished. Ego, the black community commits more crime. Far more, in fact. While the per capita rate of black shootings by police is stunning at 27% for a demographic which makes up just 13% of the population, even more stunning is the 55% of all violent crime perpetrated by that same 13%, the overwhelming majority of that crime perpetrated on black victims. So what we are left with is a population of people who are committing the majority of crime (again, a socio-economic issue, not a race issue), and they are making black Americans the most likely demographic to be victimized by crime in the process. I happen to think that honest, hard working, poor black people deserve to live in safe communities as much as anyone else does. So how is this achieved? High crime communities receive a much higher degree of policing than low crime communities. These poor communities are disproportionately black, and so being on the receiving end of heavy policing, these individuals receive far more individual contacts with police. More instances increase the chances that a single individual will be involved in a shooting even when a shooting under similar circumstances is more unlikely in any single instance. Infact, when you control for poverty conditions, and examine exclusively white impoverished communities (the Appalachia’s) the data normalizes. Now, none of this is to say that this isn’t incredibly problematic. It is. Unequivocally. However diseases can’t be cured if they’re incorrectly diagnosed. So, to come full circle, the disease is not racism. The disease is a police state government which kills it’s citizens, working in the interests of elites who don’t care about any of us. We are all being manipulated. White Americans are being manipulated into supporting a government which kills them at more than twice the rate it kills black Americans. White deaths are never reported on. Research Tony Timpa. Research Duncan Lemp. You’ve never heard of them. The reason you’ve never heard of them is because the system requires white people to support it. They make up 72% of the population, and the elites could not survive an uprising of white people. Black people are manipulated in the same manner. They’re led to believe they are being genocided by a white supremacy, when the truth is that twice as many whites are killed. This is necessary because the elites need to keep the population divided, to keep black divided against white, in order to keep both groups from looking behind the curtain and confronting the Man who is killing them both in order to enrich himself. And you’re dancing to his tune. Stop listening to his music. Edited June 6, 2020 by TakeYouToTasker 1 1
Koko78 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, GregPersons said: It is, by definition, impossible to be racist toward white people in America. If you understood anything here, you'd already know this. You don't, because it's obvious where you get all of your information. (Will you please tell me how Devin Nunes balls taste, already??) You can be prejudiced against white people, like my post. But nothing I say removes the institutional advantages given to actual ######s like you, and because of your skin color, you are able to go through life -- not only not realizing you are deeply stupid, but mistaking that for a great intellect. 1
Koko78 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: This man is running for Congress. I'd vote for the guy if I wasn't on the other side of the state. 1
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: (a lot of stuff) Okay, chill. (Edit - "chill" as in "that's cool" not "chill" as in "chill out/calm down"). We're more on the same page than we aren't, or at least, more than I expected. You are correct on these points, or rather, these I strongly agree with —This is a police state problem —This is an everybody problem —This affects white people and black people both —Crime is caused by poverty —Black people have been systemically impoverished because of crimes that have not been addressed since, and arguably, are ongoing. (Well, I'm maybe taking the points you made on this a little further in connecting the dots but correct me if you disagree.) Reparations, IMO, would be only possible if it were something that White America saw as an honor. That would not happen this generation. But I can see that mindset happening. In the ways that Trump is sometimes a wildcard, it's occasionally been a flight of fantasy that maybe Trump could beat Democrats by co-opting the left — a lot of which aligns with libertarian goals — and mandating a stronger and more consistent social safety net. Universal health care. Basic universal income. Housing support, etc etc etc. It's not like the money ISN'T there for it. It's just the will isn't there. @Deranged Rhino lives in LA; if he's paying attention, he can tell you about places in Venice and Long Beach and elsewhere, where the money is earmarked for homeless shelters, but white NIMBYism prevents health care from being established and accessible. This is where the unity bit comes in too. White liberals are just as awful as the worst racists, sometimes; their goals can also line up alarmingly quickly. Libertarians would push back against national government services. Maybe. Or maybe they would compromise. Because maybe they would agree — as you said, crime is caused by poverty. Why were the Black Panthers created? It had nothing to do with intimidating White America... not at first, anyway. It was created to give kids breakfasts. They weren't getting breakfast before school. They needed care. They needed people looking out for them. The Black Panthers made sure their elderly got medical care and the children all had clothes and food. Later, the berets and the shades and the guns (btw, remember when the NRA was actually very pro-gun legislation? yeah its when black ppl had the guns out in the open). Freedom isn't possible without security. Not security in the sense of like, fences and guns and cameras and physical protection. I mean security in the sense of basic human necessities. America has the resources to do this. We could live to see a generation make this happen. You provide every single American with the same baseline of services offered -- imagine having tangible benefits of being a legal citizen (which also encourages illegal immigrants to apply for citizenship through legal channels) like UBI and M4A. Imagine not having to work if you didn't want to. And being able to get by, not living on much, but maybe you needed time off to... for whatever reason. Kids. Death in the family. Just wanted a change. Imagine having that opportunity. And why the ***** not? Automation is here. What we need is ingenuity. We need people using their creative skills in productive ways. We don't need Deranged Rhino playing Racist Riddler here. We need him doing something that can challenge fossil fuel companies and accelerate clean energy. Just to name but one existential threat off the top of my head. Instead it's ... such.... stupid.... preventable.... *****. We should have learned this ages ago. It is very annoying that people are still pretending this is hard. Edited June 6, 2020 by GregPersons 1
Koko78 Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 45 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: He's truly, breathtakingly stupid. It's kind of impressive. Not to mention highly entertaining in his dumbassery. 1 2
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