Cinga Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 39 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said: or if the definition has recently changed within the culture. “Defund,” “racism,” “fascism,” and even “abolish” are the most recent culprits. For me, my pet peeve has always been “socialism.” None of those words have changed in definition though, especially your "pet peeve" socialism. Misuse of the English language doesn't change a definition.
GregPersons Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Cinga said: None of those words have changed in definition though, especially your "pet peeve" socialism. Misuse of the English language doesn't change a definition. Where does language come from? God? Really love the folks dying on this hill. "Language never changes, snowflake!" lol Kind of a really direct example of how racists really need to insist on their own fictional reality with highly developed selective listening skills. Let's see how it manifests this time... 47 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said: This is such an important point you’ve made, billsfan1959 (and thank you for doing so while being respectful to Margarita). I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the nature of modern American political discourse and why it’s apparently collapsing all around us. I could list many reasons, but two that I’ll mention have to do specifically with how we use language. We all seem to be talking over and around each other because of our propensity for making sweeping and hasty generalizations, as well as for the reason you mentioned: using words with arbitrary definitions and loose interpretations. In order to avoid confusion, we should all develop habits of specifying beforehand the meaning of a word we’re using if it differs from Webster’s dictionary, if it’s a commonly misused one, if it has multiple definitions, or if the definition has recently changed within the culture. “Defund,” “racism,” “fascism,” and even “abolish” are the most recent culprits. For me, my pet peeve has always been “socialism.” "Defund" is the right word. It means starting the conversation from 0 and building up. Not starting from current police budgets and working down. It's strong language for a reason. It's a negotiating tactic. It communicates the severity and vastness of change needed. It's the right word. It's arguably not strong enough. "Imprison the police" once we remove legal qualified immunity... that's gonna be a fun conversation. Edited June 13, 2020 by GregPersons 1
Doc Brown Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cinga said: None of those words have changed in definition though, especially your "pet peeve" socialism. Misuse of the English language doesn't change a definition. Define it then because some definitions I've seen are vague while some are extremely specific. 1
Chef Jim Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 10 hours ago, Jaraxxus said: Of course I did, because nothing means anything anymore! Isn't language great? ***** you mother*****ing #######. So is the first round on me tonight or you? 1
Uncle Joe Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 57 minutes ago, RealKayAdams said: This is such an important point you’ve made, billsfan1959 (and thank you for doing so while being respectful to Margarita). I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the nature of modern American political discourse and why it’s apparently collapsing all around us. I could list many reasons, but two that I’ll mention have to do specifically with how we use language. We all seem to be talking over and around each other because of our propensity for making sweeping and hasty generalizations, as well as for the reason you mentioned: using words with arbitrary definitions and loose interpretations. In order to avoid confusion, we should all develop habits of specifying beforehand the meaning of a word we’re using if it differs from Webster’s dictionary, if it’s a commonly misused one, if it has multiple definitions, or if the definition has recently changed within the culture. “Defund,” “racism,” “fascism,” and even “abolish” are the most recent culprits. For me, my pet peeve has always been “socialism.” I am old school. I used to program systems that included peoples names. Nothing was normal. Everybody had to be special. I don't know if that is sick or sick. Or if going viral is good or bad. Interesting times. 1
Cinga Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Define it then because some definitions I've seen are vague while some are extremely specific. You just made a good example yourself.
Doc Brown Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cinga said: You just made a good example yourself. You said none of these words change in definition. Define it.
Cinga Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Define it then because some definitions I've seen are vague while some are extremely specific. 10 minutes ago, Cinga said: You just made a good example yourself. 7 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: You said none of these words change in definition. Define it. I know what I said, just as you know that you just demanding the fruits of someone else labor. See, why should you look it up when you can make someone else do it for you?
Doc Brown Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Cinga said: I know what I said, just as you know that you just demanding the fruits of someone else labor. See, why should you look it up when you can make someone else do it for you? Which is why when people on the right throw out the scare term "socialism" it makes it hard for me to take them seriously as they collect their social security check.
Cinga Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: Which is why when people on the right throw out the scare term "socialism" it makes it hard for me to take them seriously as they collect their social security check. Yeah, I understand.... which is why I think the government should give back everything people have paid into SOCIAL SECURITY INSURANCE fund and let them invest it into a more secure 401K or Roth... Have no idea your age, but do you have any idea how much you (and your employer) have paid into that INSURANCE fund? Do you really think you will get it back?
Chef Jim Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hedge said: So they are replacing the police with.............the police?? How Orwellian. Oh sorry @Margarita Am I being too mean? Edited June 13, 2020 by Chef Jim 2
reddogblitz Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 11:35 AM, Cinga said: Too much like a cops huh? #Defund Librarians! librarians in Seattle don't charge late fines.
billsfan1959 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 9 hours ago, RealKayAdams said: This is such an important point you’ve made, billsfan1959 (and thank you for doing so while being respectful to Margarita). I’ve been thinking a lot lately about the nature of modern American political discourse and why it’s apparently collapsing all around us. I could list many reasons, but two that I’ll mention have to do specifically with how we use language. We all seem to be talking over and around each other because of our propensity for making sweeping and hasty generalizations, as well as for the reason you mentioned: using words with arbitrary definitions and loose interpretations. In order to avoid confusion, we should all develop habits of specifying beforehand the meaning of a word we’re using if it differs from Webster’s dictionary, if it’s a commonly misused one, if it has multiple definitions, or if the definition has recently changed within the culture. “Defund,” “racism,” “fascism,” and even “abolish” are the most recent culprits. For me, my pet peeve has always been “socialism.” I have a few thoughts myself, Kay, regarding the reasons for the toxic state of political discourse in this country, a topic which would probably make for a good thread - if the clowns could be kept out of it. As for the topic at hand, I think there has been a shift in how we use language in our national dialogue. We love to apply labels, make sweeping generalizations, conveniently dismiss the complexities of human nature, and place people in defined categories for the expressed purpose of (1) diminishing the legitimacy of their message, (2) demonizing them, and/or (3) pitting groups against each other. In the process utilize words that have somewhat specific textbook definitions, but in reality are expanded into umbrella terms under which we can place any behavior we do not appove of, as long as it can tenuously be tied to the original definition of the term. I know this has always existed to some degree; however, it seems, to me, it has worsened. To be honest, specific textbook/dictionary definitions are a necessary means of creating a common dialogue through a common understanding of words; however, definitions of certain words/terms become relatively useless in their practical application to most human beings. Some words, such as, "defunding," have a specific meaning and should be used accordingly. For other words/terms, such as "racism" and "socialism," we can pull out the primary, agreed upon, dictionary/textbook definitions and read them over and over; but, the truth is, they have been pulled, stretched, and distorted to to such a degree to fit all their applications, from one extreme to another, that, in the end, they have become almost meaningless. Which then denies us that common ground on which to engage in honest dialogue. In those instances we need to find ways to accurately describe what it is we are talking about before we can meaningfully begin to discuss it. 2 1
3rdnlng Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 9 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Which is why when people on the right throw out the scare term "socialism" it makes it hard for me to take them seriously as they collect their social security check. So, socialism=social security? You're better than that, Doc. Your comments immediately reminded me of Tiberius and The Federal Reserve "confusion". Do you really want to be associated with that?
ALF Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) I would think by defund to mean the Camden ,NJ police model. Disband , throw out the old contract and start over again. Rehire the good officers under new rules. https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/takeaway/segments/camden-new-jersey-prototype-national-police-reform Edited June 13, 2020 by ALF 1
Chef Jim Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ALF said: I would think by defund to mean the Camden ,NJ police model. Disband , throw out the old contract and start over again. Rehire the good officers under new rules. Then use a word that defines that like: Restructure Reorganize Reengineer Revamp You know words with a re prefix not a de prefix. And I would love to have had someone go around and ask the protesters when this word came out to define defund. I’m pretty sure a large majority would have described disband. Now? They’d all say “oh that’s not what we meant!” Edited June 13, 2020 by Chef Jim 4
3rdnlng Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 Just now, ALF said: I would think by defund to mean the Camden ,NJ police model. Disband , throw out the old contract and start over again. Rehire the good officers under new rules. That's the problem and no I'm not taking a shot at you. It is important to use precise language so that there is no confusion when discussing an issue. Using words according to your personal definition doesn't bring about any coming together or better understanding but contributes to confusion and misunderstanding. If one wants to qualify "defund" then use adjectives along with it such as "partially", "temporarily", "momentarily" or "somewhat". I know the adjectives wouldn't look good on a protest sign, but just saying "defund the police" is sending a message that not only isn't what the sign holder wants to convey, but makes the people you want to convince immediately oppose. 1
Koko78 Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: So, socialism=social security? You're better than that, Doc. Your comments immediately reminded me of Tiberius and The Federal Reserve "confusion". Do you really want to be associated with that? Don't make me call the FBI Police. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 13, 2020 Posted June 13, 2020 New York City Council backs proposal to slash $1 billion from NYPD budget By Peter Aitken | Fox News New York City Council leaders have issued a joint statement declaring their intent to back proposals slashing $1 billion from the NYPD budget. Speaker Corey Johnson, Majority Leader Laurie Cumbo, Finance Committee Chair Daniel Dromm and Public Safety Committee Chair Donovan Richards, among others, said they support a plan to “get to $1 billion in cuts to New York City’s police spending in the Fiscal 2021 budget.” The NYPD has a proposed budget of $6 billion, which Mayor Bill de Blasio has pledged to cut in response to citywide protests after initially backing the department. The loss of $1 billion in funding would limit the scope and function of the police, but the City Council believes it shows a clear commitment towards reform. “There is no doubt that this is an ambitious goal, but it is one that the time we are in calls for – both here in New York City and nationwide,” read the statement, posted on the council's website. “This is possible," the statement said, noting anticipated savings by "reducing uniform headcount through attrition, cutting overtime, shifting responsibilities away from the NYPD, finding efficiencies" and more. https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-cut-billion-nypd-budget
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