Defund the Police?

[snafu]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:00 PM, Just Joshin' said:

Curious to whom is in favor of defunding the police and the benefits of doing so?  If in favor of this, please help explain why this is better and the outcomes it will produce.  Any negative impacts?

 

I'm in favor of Creative destruction in this case.  I don't know whether "defund" is an accurate way of putting it, because from what I have read, it sounds like they're talking about restructuring.  A total police budget wouldn't be eliminated, and "policing" wouldn't go away.

 

I honestly think they should use the slogan "repeal and replace".

 

 

[GregPersons]

2 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I'm in favor of Creative destruction in this case.  I don't know whether "defund" is an accurate way of putting it, because from what I have read, it sounds like they're talking about restructuring.  A total police budget wouldn't be eliminated, and "policing" wouldn't go away.

 

I honestly think they should use the slogan "repeal and replace".

 

 

 

That is a better slogan, tbh.

 

I like Defund and Abolish and I think they do well to communicate that drastic overhaul is needed; "reform" isn't taking the change needed seriously enough.

 

But yours does communicate things simpler.

[Sig1Hunter]

If you think policing is bad now, just wait until qualified immunity is removed. Contrary to what Greggy thinks, most cops are college educated. What college educated, military background (aka in demand in the private sector) person is going to risk getting sued at every corner whenever they have to take lawful police action? What decent cop is gonna be proactive in taking police action when they have to worry about getting sued at every corner? Greggy likes to make the joke about high school dropouts, but in reality those are going to be the cops of the future if this passes. The people interested in law enforcement with a good resume are going to go into private sector work. More pay, less risk. 

[Buffalo_Gal]

4 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said:

If you think policing is bad now, just wait until qualified immunity is removed. Contrary to what Greggy thinks, most cops are college educated. What college educated, military background (aka in demand in the private sector) person is going to risk getting sued at every corner whenever they have to take lawful police action? What decent cop is gonna be proactive in taking police action when they have to worry about getting sued at every corner? Greggy likes to make the joke about high school dropouts, but in reality those are going to be the cops of the future if this passes. The people interested in law enforcement with a good resume are going to go into private sector work. More pay, less risk. 

Yup, this bill is going to pass, and it is going to change the way cops police.  And in spite of best intentions (hey, I am being generous here on  the intentions), that will not be for the better for the general public.
 

[Numark3]

This country throws out thousands of frivolous lawsuits because of qualified immunity.  Will be funny if it goes away

[Buffalo_Gal]

Pastor Scott bringing the heat, calling defund the police the stupidest thing he's ever heard of from politicians. He's also called it an attempt to garner votes.

Pointing out that defunding will lead to gangs, vigilantism, and mobs.  He's point out what happened in Cleveland (where he lives) when they cut funding.

If anyone wants to know what happens with "defund the police" get this clip of Pastor Scott's congressional testimony. It is eye opening.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[B-Man]

 

 

BLUE ON BLUE: 

 

In fiery speech, NY police union chief slams media, politicians for “vilifying” cops: “It’s disgusting! It’s disgusting!”

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

 

LAPD: Homicides Up 250% During Past Week of ‘Defund Police’ Peaceful Protests.

 

 

Think of it as a preview of worse things to come.

 

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

DEFUND the POLICE !

 

 

[Capco]

Long (20+ minute) read but worth sharing:

 

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

 

"American policing is a thick blue tumor strangling the life from our communities and if you don’t believe it when the poor and the marginalized say it, if you don’t believe it when you see cops across the country shooting journalists with less-lethal bullets and caustic chemicals, maybe you’ll believe it when you hear it straight from the pig’s mouth."

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, Capco said:

Long (20+ minute) read but worth sharing:

 

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

 

"American policing is a thick blue tumor strangling the life from our communities and if you don’t believe it when the poor and the marginalized say it, if you don’t believe it when you see cops across the country shooting journalists with less-lethal bullets and caustic chemicals, maybe you’ll believe it when you hear it straight from the pig’s mouth."

 

Are you're in favor of defunding the police, Capco? Or no? If no, what's your suggestion for a solution?

[Capco]

5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Are you're in favor of defunding the police, Capco? Or no? If no, what's your suggestion for a solution?

 

I'm still in the process of making my decision on that.  It's quite a complicated issue as I'm coming to find out.  

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[billsfan1959]

21 minutes ago, Capco said:

Long (20+ minute) read but worth sharing:

 

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

 

"American policing is a thick blue tumor strangling the life from our communities and if you don’t believe it when the poor and the marginalized say it, if you don’t believe it when you see cops across the country shooting journalists with less-lethal bullets and caustic chemicals, maybe you’ll believe it when you hear it straight from the pig’s mouth."

 

I have no idea if this particular cop did all that he said he did; however, if he did, he is a POS. It was his own character that caused him to behave the way he did, not LE training. For example:

 

In one paragraph he says, "Sarge called me over to assist him. He was detaining a 70 year old immigrant who spoke no English, who he’d seen picking a coke can out of a trash bin. He ordered me to arrest her for stealing trash. I said, “Sarge, c’mon, she’s an old lady.” He said, “I don’t give a *****. Hook her up, that’s an order.” And… I did. She cried the entire way to the station and all through the booking process. I couldn’t even comfort her because I didn’t speak Spanish. I felt disgusting but I was ordered to make this arrest and I wasn’t willing to lose my job for her."

 

In the very next paragraph he says, "I used to happily hassle the homeless under other circumstances. I researched obscure penal codes so I could arrest people in homeless encampments for lesser known crimes like “remaining too close to railroad property” (369i of the California Penal Code). I used to call it “planting warrant seeds” since I knew they wouldn’t make their court dates and we could arrest them again and again for warrant violations."

 

Either one is disgusted by it or he/she is not. You don't go from "this behavior disgusts me" to "I happily engaged in this behavior."

 

My guess is that he did know other cops who were the same as him and my reply to that is "birds of a feather..." I didn't read anything in that article confirmed systemic racism or even "all cops are bastards. I read about a cop who was a POS and knew some other cops who were similar to him.

 

The saddest part, is that people will read this article, with no verification of anything he wrote and believe every word of it; however, they won't believe the hundreds of thousands of current or retired LE Officers who will say the training they went through was not anything like this guy describes, that they never engaged in this type of behavior, and that, while it certainly exists, it exists in a minority of the LE population - and they are as equally disgusted by it as anyone else.

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

 

Always listen to Pac

[Capco]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

My guess is that he did know other cops who were the same as him and my reply to that is "birds of a feather..." I didn't read anything in that article confirmed systemic racism or even "all cops are bastards. I read about a cop who was a POS and knew some other cops who were similar to him.

 

Racism aside, isn't something like this a systemic problem for accountability?

 

In fact, let me tell you about an extremely formative experience: in my police academy class, we had a clique of around six trainees who routinely bullied and harassed other students: intentionally scuffing another trainee’s shoes to get them in trouble during inspection, sexually harassing female trainees, cracking racist jokes, and so on. Every quarter, we were to write anonymous evaluations of our squadmates. I wrote scathing accounts of their behavior, thinking I was helping keep bad apples out of law enforcement and believing I would be protected. Instead, the academy staff read my complaints to them out loud and outed me to them and never punished them, causing me to get harassed for the rest of my academy class. That’s how I learned that even police leadership hates rats. That’s why no one is “changing things from the inside.” They can’t, the structure won’t allow it.

[Buffalo_Gal]

6 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

I thought he was very good.

Honestly, except for one guy, the hearings this morning (I turned it off after Bongino) were fairly reasonable.  Some of it was feelings, which is to be expected considering who was invited (and it was sad), some of it was data from past defundings, some was ideas for going forward.  Of course there were a few   moments, but for the most part people appeared to want a solution to the bad apples, and to find a way weed out said bad apples. 

The devil is in the details. Some of what was said about the bill (which will pass) will make policing difficult to impossible. It will not attract the best and brightest, and will harm the very communities the people testifying are trying to help.





 

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I have no ide if this particular cop did all that he said he did; however, if he did, he is a POS. It was his own character that caused him to behave the way he did, not LE training. For example:

 

In one paragraph he says, "Sarge called me over to assist him. He was detaining a 70 year old immigrant who spoke no English, who he’d seen picking a coke can out of a trash bin. He ordered me to arrest her for stealing trash. I said, “Sarge, c’mon, she’s an old lady.” He said, “I don’t give a *****. Hook her up, that’s an order.” And… I did. She cried the entire way to the station and all through the booking process. I couldn’t even comfort her because I didn’t speak Spanish. I felt disgusting but I was ordered to make this arrest and I wasn’t willing to lose my job for her."

 

In the very next paragraph he says, "I used to happily hassle the homeless under other circumstances. I researched obscure penal codes so I could arrest people in homeless encampments for lesser known crimes like “remaining too close to railroad property” (369i of the California Penal Code). I used to call it “planting warrant seeds” since I knew they wouldn’t make their court dates and we could arrest them again and again for warrant violations."

 

Either one is disgusted by it or he/she is not. You don't go from "this behavior disgusts me" to "I happily engaged in this behavior."

 

My guess is that he did know other cops who were the same as him and my reply to that is "birds of a feather..." I didn't read anything in that article confirmed systemic racism or even "all cops are bastards. I read about a cop who was a POS and knew some other cops who were similar to him.

 

The saddest part, is that people will read this article, with no verification of anything he wrote and believe every word of it; however, they won't believe the hundreds of thousands of current or retired LE Officers who will say the training they went through was not anything like this guy describes, that they never engaged in this type of behavior, and that, while it certainly exists, it exists in a minority of the LE population - and they are as equally disgusted by it as anyone else.

22 minutes ago, Capco said:

Long (20+ minute) read but worth sharing:

 

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

 

"American policing is a thick blue tumor strangling the life from our communities and if you don’t believe it when the poor and the marginalized say it, if you don’t believe it when you see cops across the country shooting journalists with less-lethal bullets and caustic chemicals, maybe you’ll believe it when you hear it straight from the pig’s mout

 

I am supposed to care what a guy says who is either a liar or a horrible person? If this guy did all these things then I hope he rots in hell when he dies. I know members of large and small police forces and while all acknowledge people like him exist they are the exception. The sad part is that articles like this which has no way to verify gets spread as "truth" with no way to argue because every charge is vague and every fact is blurry. I would be embarrassed if I put this trash out there. 

 

37 minutes ago, Capco said:

Long (20+ minute) read but worth sharing:

 

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

 

"American policing is a thick blue tumor strangling the life from our communities and if you don’t believe it when the poor and the marginalized say it, if you don’t believe it when you see cops across the country shooting journalists with less-lethal bullets and caustic chemicals, maybe you’ll believe it when you hear it straight from the pig’s mouth."

lockquote widgetblockquote widget

[billsfan1959]

18 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

Racism aside, isn't something like this a systemic problem for accountability?

 

In fact, let me tell you about an extremely formative experience: in my police academy class, we had a clique of around six trainees who routinely bullied and harassed other students: intentionally scuffing another trainee’s shoes to get them in trouble during inspection, sexually harassing female trainees, cracking racist jokes, and so on. Every quarter, we were to write anonymous evaluations of our squadmates. I wrote scathing accounts of their behavior, thinking I was helping keep bad apples out of law enforcement and believing I would be protected. Instead, the academy staff read my complaints to them out loud and outed me to them and never punished them, causing me to get harassed for the rest of my academy class. That’s how I learned that even police leadership hates rats. That’s why no one is “changing things from the inside.” They can’t, the structure won’t allow it.

 

To be systemic, it has to be pervasive. That is my point. Not that it doesn't exist, but that it exists in a minority who are characterologically flawed. LE Officers do feel a brotherhood with each other because they share a common bond. It is human nature. It is also human nature to want to believe and protect those you feel close to.

 

But only to a point.

 

Think of your own life in regard to family and friends. Would you willingly assist a family member or close friend in degrading some innocent person for no reason at all? Would you willingly assist a family member or close friend in falsely accusing someone of something to get them arrested and sent to jail? Would you willingly assist a family member or close friend in physically assaulting someone because of their race or other non-justified reason? Would you willingly assist a family member or close friend in  killing someone because of their race or any other non-justified reason? Would you just stand by and not try to stop them from committing any of these acts? Would you lie under oath to protect them for any of these acts? Would you actively cover up any of these acts for them?

 

My guess is most people would say no to most of those questions.

 

There are bad LE Officers, just as there are bad people in every other segment of society. Sometimes you don't know those character flaws until it is too late. Sometimes you don't know the degree of those character flaws and whether or not they should be removed. Sometimes you feel they should and it is difficult to actually get them removed. Sometimes you are successful in getting them removed.

 

The law enforcement community has worked as hard as any other entity in this country to rid themselves of this type of s**t. Unfortunately, when it does rear its ugly head, it is on every news outlet around the country 24/7. And the rest of LE gets painted with the same brush stroke

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by billsfan1959

[B-Man]

 

 

AMERICA, WE ARE LEAVING. At Law Officer.com, Travis Yates writes:

You aren’t going to have to abolish the police, we won’t be around for it.

 

And while I know, most Americans still appreciate us, it’s not enough and the risk is too high. Those of you that say thank you or buy the occasional meal, it means everything.

 

But those of you that were silent while the slow turning of the knives in our backs happened by thugs and cowards, this is on you.

 

Your belief in hashtags and memes over the truth has and will create an environment in your community that you will never expect.

 

If you think Minneapolis will turn into Mogadishu and that is far from you, it’s coming.

 

And when it does, remember what your complicity did.

 

This is the America that you made.