Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Billl said: I wouldn’t think Bills fans would be so quick to hope QBs start making racially divisive tweets. Ooooh Burnnnnn 1
Don Otreply Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 The first amendment, granting free speech, and Protesting injustice in our country is always okay, and yes, even during the national anthem. Doing so has nothing whatsoever to do with our military personnel. Having served in the United States Marine Corp for six years, I can never take offense when Americans exercise their constitutional rights that I served to protect, and I applaud those that do so. To do otherwise would be totally UN-AMERICAN. “Of the people by the people for the people” Being that our employers/businesses make way more money off our work than we do, they can stand quietly by while we Americans exercise our constitutional rights. If a business feels that our constitutional rights have no weight in their eyes, well it’s time for a change then isn’t it!! 1 1 1
ytownblofan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: That was never the point. Everyone knows why they are kneeling and its meaning. Some just took offense that they chose to do it in a time that most Americans take pride in which is our flag. Do the kneel at the coin flip, or at kick off or any other time during the game. The national anthem should have been off limits. Players should have noticed and made this adjustment. Good Message, just bad delivery. Definitely understand where you are coming from, but honestly, does the kneel even get noticed at any other point? I would argue a player kneeling during the coin toss or kickoff largely would go unnoticed as players kneel all the time during pregame/gametime and it is seen as normal. Kneeling during the anthem is noticeable, it is a way to ensure that everyone takes notice as it is way out of the norm. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: That was never the point. Everyone knows why they are kneeling and its meaning. Some just took offense that they chose to do it in a time that most Americans take pride in which is our flag. Do the kneel at the coin flip, or at kick off or any other time during the game. The national anthem should have been off limits. Players should have noticed and made this adjustment. Good Message, just bad delivery. First off, it's apparently not true that people know why Kaep and others were kneeling and its meaning. People continue to associate it with disrespecting the military. Second off, I "get it" that you feel the national anthem and flag should be off limits, but that's the very point of the protest - to viscerally make the point that the guys kneeling feel they don't, in fact, have "liberty and justice for all" in this country. If they knelt at some other point, it would not draw as much attention or have as much impact. That said, I reiterate that I personally hold the opinion that the NFL owners did have the collectively bargained right to prohibit "conduct detrimental to the league" or some such wording on the point of their employees, and that in general, employers do get the right to set conduct expectations for their employees. 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Great player... how do you know he's a good man? He did legit do a lot for the city of New Orleans post Katrina. I guess technically that doesn't make him a good man per se but he did do good things. 1
LB3 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, BillsDude said: Yes people "CAN" disagree and respect someone at the same time, but Brees did not do this. He said and suggested the others were showing disrespect because of their views and actions regarding the flag. That is disrespecting them by putting feelings into their mouths. Had he wanted to show respect, he could have just stated his position and what the flag meant to him, but said those who disagreed were not necessarily disrespecting the flag as they are entitled to their own views. He said he believes it's disrespectful. He didn't disrespect their views. He actually went on to say that he agrees that there is a lot wrong in the country. That standing together is more unifying. That's his opinion. That's not disrespectful at all. Unless you think he's guilty of wrongthink. Edited June 4, 2020 by LB3 sausage fingers
Billl Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: That was never the point. Everyone knows why they are kneeling and its meaning. Some just took offense that they chose to do it in a time that most Americans take pride in which is our flag. Do the kneel at the coin flip, or at kick off or any other time during the game. The national anthem should have been off limits. Players should have noticed and made this adjustment. Good Message, just bad delivery. The US Mint doesn’t employ the people who are killing unarmed citizens, so kneeling during the coin flip doesn’t make a lot of sense. Edited June 4, 2020 by Billl
starrymessenger Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Great player... how do you know he's a good man? As KJ has previously noted, Brees did much, perhaps more than any other individual, to bring the great city of New Orleans back from the brink. That much I think I know. That's what is in the public domaine. Now KJ says there are skeletons in his closet, without specifying what they are. If that's true and if I knew what those things were about maybe I would change my opinion of him as a person. Just for the record, I don't think peaceful protest is an insult to the flag or the military and I always thought Kaep was a principled guy ( just not a starting calibre QB). Whats going on now is not just about race, though race is the powerful catalyst. Stay tuned. There's something happening here. Edited June 4, 2020 by starrymessenger
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: What was Joe D's viewpoint on Drew Brees? That he is, and I quote, “A pos.” An opinion Joe D formed during the CBA negotiations in 2011 when Joe D represented retired players seeking better retirement benefits. 2
PromoTheRobot Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 hours ago, billrooter said: So as a white person Drew Brees now has no right voicing his opinion, one that I agree with. Racism goes both ways, it just isn't covered so thoroughly by the media when it is the other way around. This is a complete S&it S%how in my opinion. What exactly did he say that was wrong, the National Anthem IMO is never a place to protest? He's got every right in the world to express his feelings. But that means everyone else has the right to express THEIR feelings on HIS feelings. 1
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: OK, I guess the hypothetical "Bills game" gives this a football connection, but it seems pretty out there. I think if fans can't restrain themselves from going on the field and assaulting players, they should stay home and not go to the game. The problem of peaceful protests being used as a cover for violent acts, theft and destruction is real. We lived it here in St Louis in 2014 and 2016 and we weren't the first. But I think discussing that is too far afield from football and should be taken elsewhere. I don't think putting in a kind of far fetched analogy to fans running amok at a game really gives it that football relevance or ties it in enough to the topic of Drew Brees comments. Point taken. I wish Brees didn't take the bait. Seems the NFL is going to be in the crosshairs of this for awhile. I really miss the NBA, NHL and now MLB. The NFL is the only thing left and it's going to be a target to rile people up. I just want to go back to hating on the Patriots while they implode. Edited June 4, 2020 by BillsRdue
jkeerie Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yeah, this is a tough one because it's 100% football related and it absolutely should be discussed on the main board. The reason the other two threads got locked is that they quickly degraded into what really amount to personal insults and attacks on anyone with a different view than the person writing. I would love to hear anything you feel you can share about Brees skeletons, I know you do have some connections. I would also love to leave this thread open - even though it didn't start as neutrally as the two that were closed - but people, remember - you are talking to other PEOPLE. The very Heart of being an American IMHO is that we accept that we can all have different views. That's it in a nutshell. Our country's symbol is not merely a flag...but it's what that flag stands for....the freedom to take a knee before that flag in protest, or even burn it in protest like they did with Vietnam. That's the beauty of true democracy. It is not an easy system by any stretch. 2
PromoTheRobot Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, jkeerie said: That's it in a nutshell. Our country's symbol is not merely a flag...but it's what that flag stands for....the freedom to take a knee before that flag in protest, or even burn it in protest like they did with Vietnam. That's the beauty of true democracy. It is not an easy system by any stretch. It's also fragile if people take it for granted. 1
Rocky Landing Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 I'm often frustrated in these discussions by the blurring of fact vs. opinion. A fact is a fact, regardless of how it affects someone's narrative. If an opinion is in direct opposition to a fact, then that opinion is wrong. I shouldn't be able to say, "in my opinion, one plus one equals three," and expect to be taken seriously, or even have my opinion respected. And, if I'm too stubborn to adjust my opinion on the basis of solid fact, then that is my problem, and no one should have to waste breath arguing with me. The United States flag is not a symbol of the military, but a symbol of the entire country, as a whole. That is literally a fact. It always has been. Until Kaepernick took a knee, it had never been suggested otherwise. Grenada, Lichtenstein, and Samoa also have flags, and they don't even have any armed forces. I cannot take the opinion that Kaepernick's silent protest during the national anthem disrespects the military, because it disrespects the flag any more seriously than if people were saying that his protest disrespects Denny's. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, BillsRdue said: Point taken. I wish Brees didn't take the bait. Seems the NFL is going to be in the crosshairs of this for awhile. I really miss the NBA, NHL and now MLB. The NFL is the only thing left and it's going to be a target to rile people up. I think there are many ways Brees could have answered that question that would be far less divisive but still be true to his personal beliefs
badassgixxer05 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: First off, it's apparently not true that people know why Kaep and others were kneeling and its meaning. People continue to associate it with disrespecting the military. Second off, I "get it" that you feel the national anthem and flag should be off limits, but that's the very point of the protest - to viscerally make the point that the guys kneeling feel they don't, in fact, have "liberty and justice for all" in this country. If they knelt at some other point, it would not draw as much attention or have as much impact. Yes they associate it with disrespecting the flag because of when its occurring, not just because they took a knee. And you second point there kinda points to the fact that they were trying to disrespect the flag? I do remember Kap making some comments that he cant stand for a flag that stands for him having no rights. By definition that would be purposely disrespecting the flag and people would have the right to then associate just the kneeling part with disrespecting the flag. I see past the bs and see the cause. We need to put more emphasis on that. Flags aside, i think everyone can agree there are issues to be sorted out. 1 cop killing 1 black man is not that issue. The deaths across the board are the issue, and i wish i would see more of these protests everytime a black man is killed. Everytime a white man is killed. Everytime anyone is killed. The violence needs to stop. Gangs need to stop. Meaningless killings need to stop. I hope a day will come where people are not looked at as color and just as people. It takes everyone to forget color not just cops/whites. Lets just all come together and march saying i don't see color. Then anyone against that protest you could then call a racist. 8 minutes ago, Billl said: The US Mint doesn’t employ the people who are killing unarmed citizens, so kneeling during the coin flip doesn’t make a lot of sense. Then deal with the divide. Not sure how else to put it.
Billl Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said: Then deal with the divide. Not sure how else to put it Literally not one person has said Drew shouldn’t have the right to say what he said. Millions have said that the players shouldn’t have the right to protest, though.
Coach Tuesday Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: Literally not one person has said Drew shouldn’t have the right to say what he said. Millions have said that the players shouldn’t have the right to protest, though. To be fair that’s not quite true, one of his teammates literally said Brees should just keep his mouth shut. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: ? I take it for Tre, that would be "apology not accepted" ? 1
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, jkeerie said: That's it in a nutshell. Our country's symbol is not merely a flag...but it's what that flag stands for....the freedom to take a knee before that flag in protest, or even burn it in protest like they did with Vietnam. That's the beauty of true democracy. It is not an easy system by any stretch. One would hope that this is obvious to everyone with even a cursory understating of our history. Unfortunately for many, they let symbols become more important than the very rights those symbols represent. I fully understand that feeling though, as my stomach turns every time I see our flag flying next to the Nazi flag at their meetings or rallies. I have to remind myself that no, our service men and women didn’t fight and just to see a Nazi flag fly next to ours, but for the right to do so instead. That’s a distinction we MUST embrace or the sacrifice is lost entirely. 2 2 1
badassgixxer05 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Billl said: Literally not one person has said Drew shouldn’t have the right to say what he said. Millions have said that the players shouldn’t have the right to protest, though. lol, no everyone is just blasting him all over the internet and unfollowing him. His own teammates. Ill leave the second part alone as ive already stated the issue on that a couple times now.
Recommended Posts