Drew Brees: Controversial comments

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

Not when it hasn’t been included in the collective bargaining contract it’s not.  And it may come as some surprise to you to learn that those buildings don’t belong to the teams in most cases.  They are paid for with our tax dollars.

 

Yes. Still then. Teams have a freedom to hold their employees to a reasonable code of conduct, and if the employees dislike it they can get the union involved. The teams lease the buildings making it their "real property" under every version of the law. It's their decision what can and cannot be done with their uniform and their platform. 

[Success]

Drew Brees isn't the problem.  His statement was pretty tone deaf and I'm sure he regrets it (he did apologize), but people go WAY over the top in the internet age reacting to that stuff.  He's not a bad person all of a sudden because of this - everyone loves to sit behind their keyboards now and act as instant judge & jury of people's lives.  

 

He apologized, and people should accept that and move on from it. There are much more important issues to discuss right now.

 

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes, a lot of the reaction to Brees comments has been blind rage, but for someone who is not tone-deaf is that not to be expected given the current context - where a man died in broad daylight in the presence of 4 police officers, one of whom knelt with his knee on the man's throat for >7 minutes while others apparently held him down.  People are understandably angry about that.  People are enraged.  That's the problem with feelings of rage and long-standing frustration - they erupt, they are not neatly bounded by logic or grammar.

 

Your comments about Ed Reed are correct.

 

It's equally true that Drew Brees comments didn't change anyone's mind or do anything positive.

 

Kaep started his protest - well, here, I think it may be appropriate to return to what he said at the time, 2016, and what the SF49ers said.  Remember the context - in 2016, among other things, a former police officer in St Louis was acquitted of murder for shooting a man through his car window, after being recorded during the pursuit "we're killing this *****, don't you know" and after being allowed to contaminate the scene by going to his cruiser, reaching into his personal bag in the back, and entering the car of the man he shot.  A gun was found in the car that had the officer's DNA but not the DNA of the deceased; the officer had been allowed to enter the car and "safe" the gun that was allegedly there during the pursuit, without wearing gloves.  [I have a close friend whose brother is a recently retired high officer in the StLPD who can say that all of this is 100% against proper crime scene procedure and proper procedure for an officer-involved shooting.]  So yeah, this kind of thing. 

And that was 2016, and it's 2020 now, and nothing has changed, and in some ways things have backslid, gotten worse.  Consent decrees to reform police have been voided,  Justice Department programs to investigate PDs have ended, that kind of thing.

 

Anyway, here's what Kaep originally said and what the 49ers originally said:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

The 49ers issued a statement about Kaepernick's decision: "The national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pre-game ceremony. It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose and participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem."

Niners coach Chip Kelly told reporters Saturday that Kaepernick's decision not to stand during the national anthem is "his right as a citizen" and said "it's not my right to tell him not to do something."

 

Emphasis mine - the club and the coach originally pointed out that American principles allow an individual the right to choose to participate or not.

 

Somehow that changed over the next few months.

 

I personally support the right of the NFL Owners to mandate employee behavior during the anthem on their property and their dime, but let's remember at the very start,  the right of an individual to respectfully choose not to participate was recognized by the club and its coach.  And many who object to Kaepernick's behavior aren't doing so on the former grounds, they're doing so on the grounds that it's somehow "unAmerican" or disrespectful of rights our military fought and died for.  To the contrary.

 

 

Kap started his first game of the year in Buffalo that year if I remember right. I'll never forget the guy behind screaming at Kap to stand up and respect the anthem. I turned around and asked why was he not practicing what he was preaching? 

 

He shut up pretty quick. 

 

Shockingly, the amount of fans cheering, laughing, burping, drinking their beer during the anthem is apparently respectful. But taking a knee isn't

[Billl]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

 

I actually disagree with you somewhat. I think the men and women who have fought and died for our freedoms did so for America and the principles of American freedom, not for the flag.

While I agree with your sentiment, nobody in the military fights and dies for our freedoms.  They fight and die because they’re told to.  The military doesn’t let you pick and choose where, when, and how you fight.  Whether those causes are good, bad, or indifferent have no bearing on whether or not you fight because you have no input in that decision.  Once that 18 year old kid signs on the dotted line, he can only hope he risking his (or her) life for a “good cause”.

[Rocbillsfan1]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I'm not allowed to protest on the job, and my personal viewpoint ultimately came down to concluding that the NFL and the teams as private businesses had the right to set conditions around job performance and say to players you must stand respectfully or stay out of sight during the anthem.  They are on the clock, and IMO employers have the right to set conditions for how employees behave on the clock and on the business premises.

 

But that doesn't mean I agree with people who claim to protest the flag or anthem is never appropriate or hang all sorts of other stuff around it.

God I hate this argument so much. His job is to play football not be used as a pawn while the nfl does their parade with the military at every game. Where in his contract did it say that he has to stand for the national anthem?If it was against policy why didn’t they just fire him? The answer is it’s not which is why he was blackballed and not brought back the following year. Your job would never put you in this type of position because it would be illegal if they made you do something like this outside the scope of your job duties and then fired you for disobeying. The nfl sold themselves out to conservative values by taking money from the military and making this whole pageantry thing a huge spectacle before every game. Don’t pretend to be a fool. This was done under the guise of patriotism but really has nothing to do with patriotism. It’s more about the military using this as a recruitment tool. The nfl are the ones that made this political and they know it. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Rocbillsfan1

[teef]

Just now, Billl said:

While I agree with your sentiment, nobody in the military fights and dies for our freedoms.  They fight and die because they’re told to.  The military doesn’t let you pick and choose where, when, and how you fight.  Whether those causes are good, bad, or indifferent have no bearing on whether or not you fight because you have no input in that decision.  Once that 18 year old kid signs on the dotted line, he can only hope he risking his (or her) life for a “good cause”.

aren't you making the choice when you sign on the dotted line?  i've never served, but i assumed if someone did, they were very aware of what may happen when they enlist.

Edited June 4, 2020 by teef

[MJS]

Brees has just as much right to voice his opinion as anyone else and his personal views on the flag and anthem are legitimate. Doesn't make him racist or a bad person at all. He didn't condemn anyone for trying to fight for social justice.

 

And it's also legitimate for other people to want to protest during the national anthem. It's the most peaceful, silent form of protest imaginable. Better that than out looting and destroying property.

[whatdrought]

Just now, Billl said:

While I agree with your sentiment, nobody in the military fights and dies for our freedoms.  They fight and die because they’re told to.  The military doesn’t let you pick and choose where, when, and how you fight.  Whether those causes are good, bad, or indifferent have no bearing on whether or not you fight because you have no input in that decision.  Once that 18 year old kid signs on the dotted line, he can only hope he risking his (or her) life for a “good cause”.

 

This is wrong. On many levels. 

 

The men and women who join the military do so to act as a shield and sword for the safety and defense of our country. When and where that shield and sword are deployed is decided by the people of the country by proxy of the elected officials (government by the people, for the people). Every soldier who dies in uniform for this country does so for the freedom of American citizens everywhere. If it's done in a way you or I disagree with it's our fault for electing ***** leaders, but that doesn't take anything off of their sacrifice. 

[Billl]

Just now, teef said:

aren't you making the choice when you sign on the dotted line?  i've never served, but i assumed if someone did, they were very aware of what may happen when they enlist.

Pretty sure you don’t sign up to only fight for causes you believe in.  You sign up to do what you’re told.

[Rocbillsfan1]

The military has been hijacked as well unfortunately and has only been used as a tool to kill people of color all over the world since WW2. While I don’t blame the soldiers it’s hardly something to be proud of. 

[MJS]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

While I agree with your sentiment, nobody in the military fights and dies for our freedoms.  They fight and die because they’re told to.  The military doesn’t let you pick and choose where, when, and how you fight.  Whether those causes are good, bad, or indifferent have no bearing on whether or not you fight because you have no input in that decision.  Once that 18 year old kid signs on the dotted line, he can only hope he risking his (or her) life for a “good cause”.

So you are saying those who join the military don't make that choice beforehand? They don't understand what they are doing?

 

I disagree. I think they do know what they are doing and they choose to join often because they want to protect our freedoms.

[BigBillsFan]

8 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

I'm saying that Drew Brees is absolutely entitled to express his views as are those who respond to those views.

 

He should not get special treatment or cover because of what those views are or who he is. Bringing up ancestors who have fought in wars for American freedoms as a reason why others can't protest peacefully seems a little much to me. How many of the people protesting, simply asking for equal treatment from law enforcement, have family members who served or have served themselves. Brees is choosing to stand which is great but others deserve the right to choose as well. 

 

My point is people that both you and Brees have the absolute right to express yourselves peacefully. I do not like how some people are only OK with free speech when they agree with what is said.

 

Who said he deserves special treatment? He didn't others can't protest.

 

This is the problem with this "conversation" is people say things other people said and turn it into dogma. He said why he won't and why others shouldn't. He didn't condemn anyone who did, he didn't say they should shut the F up like others have to him.

 

My point is a conversation, if people genuinely want one, which as I've learned no one really does, is based around people being honest with their views. He gave his honestly, say why you disagree with him, no problem, but don't look to rip him about which is exactly why he needed to "apologize" to the mob because they threatened his sponsored for negative press.

 

If you can't say what you believe is true without it causing harm to your family then it's not a free statement anymore is it?

[Epstein's Mother]

Maybe Drew should just let them burn his house down and call it good.

[LB3]

3 minutes ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

The military has been hijacked as well unfortunately and has only been used as a tool to kill people of color all over the world since WW2. While I don’t blame the soldiers it’s hardly something to be proud of. 

^^^

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If you guys think this was “an innocent mistake by a good guy” I’ve got a bridge for sale. 

Exactly.  Someone was thinking about life after football in politics.

[Billl]

Just now, MJS said:

So you are saying those who join the military don't make that choice beforehand? They don't understand what they are doing?

 

I disagree. I think they do know what they are doing and they choose to join often because they want to protect our freedoms.

They can sign up for whatever reason they want.  I can sign up for the military because I want to fly an F-16.  That doesn’t mean I get to.  It also doesn’t mean I can opt out of getting sent to die in some hellhole if I disagree with the cause.

[Success]

To me, I see it as more of a tribute to those who served when people make use of freedoms that other countries can only dream about.  Think about the countries that we see as oppressive - some would throw people in jail for the perception that they may be "disrespecting" a flag or anthem.

 

That's what makes America what it is - the ability to voice dissent in whatever way we choose, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.  That's what the flag represents as much as anything else, at least to me.

[Happy]

12 minutes ago, Billl said:

So he can say that he disagrees with what they’re doing, but they can’t disagree with what he said?  That doesn’t seem like a double standard or anything.

 

If you like the anthem so much, feel free to listen to it on your iPod and stand at attention all you want.  The US military pays for the anthem to be played before games.  If players want to kneel during what is literally a paid advertisement, that is their right.  If people want to piss and moan about it, that’s their right.  If people want to put those people on blast, that’s their right.  See how this works?

 

Who says no one can disagree with what Brees said?  He didn't...I didn't...no one else I saw said that.  What I do disagree with is people telling Brees to pipe down and silence him.  That is what it all came down to.  I totally disagree with that.

 

See how what works?  A completely misguided second paragraph?  Most players don't have a problem with standing for 30 seconds to honor the country that gives them the opportunity they have on game day, as well as the amount of money they are paid.  The ones that can't should try going to China or Venezuela; I have a feeling their outlook will change in a hurry.

[MJS]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

They can sign up for whatever reason they want.  I can sign up for the military because I want to fly an F-16.  That doesn’t mean I get to.  It also doesn’t mean I can opt out of getting sent to die in some hellhole if I disagree with the cause.

People don't usually make such a big life decision without thinking about it long and hard and thinking through all of the many reasons they do and don't want to join.

 

I bet there are a few who don't quite understand what they are doing, but I bet the majority don't just jump into it.

 

And I haven't met many people who have served in the military tell me that it was a mistake and they wish they hadn't.

[Reader]

1 hour ago, BillsRdue said:

Personally, the responses of other NFL players were more derogatory and offensive than Brees comment. He was flat out attacked for not blindly towing the liberal line.

 

Made it to page two before someone made it about politics, not bad.