LB3 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: First that birthmark on his face and now this. Guy can't catch a break. 1
Blokestradamus Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, IDBillzFan said: Are you honestly arguing that MLK did it wrong, and because he sought a middle ground, he didn't accomplish much? Because that's kind of what you're saying. No, I'm saying that despite all of his hard work and principles, the system spent countless hours trying to undo all of his work. For everything good that he achieved or tried to achieve, it's still a problem half a century after his death. People have protested in the "right way" for decades and how much has truly changed? When non-violent protest doesn't work, how can people keep doing it expecting the same actions to provide different results? 4
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, LB3 said: You really think his beliefs changed in one day? I doubt it. But a person can recognize how their beliefs impact others without changing theirs. This is Brees apology: "I would like to apologize to my friends, teammates, the City of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community and anyone I hurt with my comments yesterday," Brees wrote in an Instagram post. "In speaking with some of you, it breaks my heart to know the pain I have caused." He's not apologizing for his views, he's apologizing for causing hurt and pain with his comments.
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 46 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: Martin Luther King tried to find the middle ground. That got him blackmailed by the FBI and murdered. Fred Hampton tried to find the middle ground. That got him executed in his own home by his own government. The burden is not on black people or minorites to stop racism. ***** your middle ground. MLK was the most successful black reformist in history. Lol 1
LB3 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Blokestradamus said: No, I'm saying that despite all of his hard work and principles, the system spent countless hours trying to undo all of his work. For everything good that he achieved or tried to achieve, it's still a problem half a century after his death. People have protested in the "right way" for decades and how much has truly changed? When non-violent protest doesn't work, how can people keep doing it expecting the same actions to provide different results? Personally, someone stealing their neighbors stuff doesn't make me think of racial injustice. It just makes me think, "Man. I guess the nosy B word next door isn't so bad."
ProcessAccepted Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, billrooter said: So as a white person Drew Brees now has no right voicing his opinion, one that I agree with. Racism goes both ways, it just isn't covered so thoroughly by the media when it is the other way around. This is a complete S&it S%how in my opinion. What exactly did he say that was wrong, the National Anthem IMO is never a place to protest? You poor baby. White people claiming to struggle with racism is an interesting take on society. Where does this bare out in opportunity, wealth, quality of health care, protection from the police........ So now it's OK for athletes to comment on political issues. Where was your outrage when LeBron (amongst many others) was told to shut up and just entertain us. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/02/19/587097707/laura-ingraham-told-lebron-james-to-shutup-and-dribble-he-went-to-the-hoop I'm a white guy who knows that I got a heck of a head start in life because of my skin color. All they want is to level the playing field. Just think of it as a Bills fan watching the Patriots get away with holds, intentional grounding, PIs etc. 5 1
LB3 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I doubt it. But a person can recognize how their beliefs impact others without changing theirs. This is Brees apology: "I would like to apologize to my friends, teammates, the City of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community and anyone I hurt with my comments yesterday," Brees wrote in an Instagram post. "In speaking with some of you, it breaks my heart to know the pain I have caused." He's not apologizing for his views, he's apologizing for causing hurt and pain with his comments. That's fair. In any case, he won't be forgiven. Edited June 4, 2020 by LB3
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes, a lot of the reaction to Brees comments has been blind rage, but for someone who is not tone-deaf is that not to be expected given the current context - where a man died in broad daylight in the presence of 4 police officers, one of whom knelt with his knee on the man's throat for >7 minutes while others apparently held him down. People are understandably angry about that. People are enraged. That's the problem with feelings of rage and long-standing frustration - they erupt, they are not neatly bounded by logic or grammar. Your comments about Ed Reed are correct. It's equally true that Drew Brees comments didn't change anyone's mind or do anything positive. Kaep started his protest - well, here, I think it may be appropriate to return to what he said at the time, 2016, and what the SF49ers said. Remember the context - in 2016, among other things, a former police officer in St Louis was acquitted of murder for shooting a man through his car window, after being recorded during the pursuit "we're killing this *****, don't you know" and after being allowed to contaminate the scene by going to his cruiser, reaching into his personal bag in the back, and entering the car of the man he shot. A gun was found in the car that had the officer's DNA but not the DNA of the deceased; the officer had been allowed to enter the car and "safe" the gun that was allegedly there during the pursuit, without wearing gloves. [I have a close friend whose brother is a recently retired high officer in the StLPD who can say that all of this is 100% against proper crime scene procedure and proper procedure for an officer-involved shooting.] So yeah, this kind of thing. And that was 2016, and it's 2020 now, and nothing has changed, and in some ways things have backslid, gotten worse. Consent decrees to reform police have been voided, Justice Department programs to investigate PDs have ended, that kind of thing. Anyway, here's what Kaep originally said and what the 49ers originally said: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder." The 49ers issued a statement about Kaepernick's decision: "The national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pre-game ceremony. It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose and participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem." Niners coach Chip Kelly told reporters Saturday that Kaepernick's decision not to stand during the national anthem is "his right as a citizen" and said "it's not my right to tell him not to do something." Emphasis mine - the club and the coach originally pointed out that American principles allow an individual the right to choose to participate or not. Somehow that changed over the next few months. I personally support the right of the NFL Owners to mandate employee behavior during the anthem on their property and their dime, but let's remember at the very start, the right of an individual to respectfully choose not to participate was recognized by the club and its coach. And many who object to Kaepernick's behavior aren't doing so on the former grounds, they're doing so on the grounds that it's somehow "unAmerican" or disrespectful of rights our military fought and died for. To the contrary. I will try to not get lost in the Kaep weeds. I will say, blind rage does not help. It feels good. It feels righteous. It is not productive. Drew Brees has not changed his mind. He has not changed as a person. There was no discussion to be had to facilitate those changes. He will go on continuing to do the same thing he’s always done. 7 minutes ago, Blokestradamus said: No, I'm saying that despite all of his hard work and principles, the system spent countless hours trying to undo all of his work. For everything good that he achieved or tried to achieve, it's still a problem half a century after his death. People have protested in the "right way" for decades and how much has truly changed? When non-violent protest doesn't work, how can people keep doing it expecting the same actions to provide different results? Uh, Jim Crow? The Civil Rights Act?
BigBillsFan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 It's a sad day when a man says he wants to honor his flag and country and loves the national anthem and he's labeled a bigot, ill-timed, racist, and weak and then players tell him to shut the F up. Only 1 voice should count, only one sentiment should be in the air. Any deviations in orthodoxy will make you hated, and the media and social media will sick it's mob on you to conform or apologize or lose your sponsors because you know they will attack your living. Leadership is doing and saying what other people AREN'T doing because it's true. Leadership is not following the mob. 3
LB3 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 If Brees doesn't retire, it will be interesting to see how late hits on him are dealt with. I'm guessing they'll be relatively frequent.
BigBillsFan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Maybe he was flat-out attacked for being totally tone-deaf to issues that hit very very close to home for many of those players. I would wager that most of them have personally experienced or have family that have personally experienced what they believe to be racial profiling or racially biased policing. A number may have lost friends to same. Why is it "tone deaf" to say what you feel about the country on a topic that isn't proven to be racial at all yet? Why can't a man speak without it going through a prism? I've been racially profiled, accused of drug dealing, etc.. Never in my life have I thought a man can't say what he believes to be true today, yesterday or tomorrow.
ProcessAccepted Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: First that birthmark on his face and now this. Guy can't catch a break. He was born with exceptional athletic abilities, has made millions and has a gorgeous wife. I'd say he's caught a few breaks along the way.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) Jesus. It's 2020 GET OVER IT. It's a PEACEFUL protest where no Flags were damaged during its filming. SOLUTION Take the Anthem OUT of the game. Case Closed!!! Edited June 4, 2020 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce 2
Tommy Callahan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 meh definition of bigotry is to be intolerant of others opinions The mob sure wont accept any opposing views or opinions ugh 2
Billl Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: Are you honestly arguing that MLK did it wrong, and because he sought a middle ground, he didn't accomplish much? Because that's kind of what you're saying. Whatever happened to that guy, anyway? Did he retire?
All_Pro_Bills Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) Whether or not I agree with Brees is not important. You'd think he's entitled to his own view and to express it. And I'd hope that the people attacking him would have some recognition or self-awareness about their reactions to his statement and perhaps assess their ability for tolerance and understanding. But not so much of that. There doesn't seem to be much room at this time for mutual respect and understanding which could lead to sitting down and discussing grievances and issues in a constructive setting. Very sad. Edited June 4, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills 1
Billl Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: Are these now the Bickering Saints? This just might be the Bills year after all! Now....we just need Mahomes to do something similar. ?? 1 hour ago, billrooter said: Ravens would work as well. I wouldn’t think Bills fans would be so quick to hope QBs start making racially divisive tweets.
ProcessAccepted Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: Why is it "tone deaf" to say what you feel about the country on a topic that isn't proven to be racial at all yet? Why can't a man speak without it going through a prism? I've been racially profiled, accused of drug dealing, etc.. Never in my life have I thought a man can't say what he believes to be true today, yesterday or tomorrow. Why can't others be afforded that same right just because you disagree with them. He expressed his views which is his right and others are expressing theirs. It kinda sounds like you don't like freedom of expression if you do not agree with what is being said. He's not the first athlete who has been attacked for saying what they believe https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-players-protests-ferguson-new-york-eric-garner-lions-reggie-bush-browns-johnson-bademosi-rams-derrick-rose/vf48lpt3wy6n1j5zg5rly3wsx https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/shut-and-play-patriotism-jock-culture-and-limits-free-speech/
BillsDude Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 The fact is, although he has a right to his personal views about the flag, and what it means to him, his earlier comments stated and/or suggested those others who kneeled or did not think or act like him were wrong. That is where he messed up big time. The flag does not stand for any one thing, regardless what anyone says, as we all have a right to be respected for our personal rights to see that as a representation for whatever we choose, based on our past experiences, sensitivities, national historical events--good or bad-- and what that symbol means to us thus personally. Brees has that same right. He was not breaking the law and has a right to free speech, too, but if he was implying or telling others how they should think or feel, suggesting or stating they are worse humans, otherwise, for not thinking or acting like him, that is where that bs needs to end, and why I am glad he got backlash back. Had he just stated his personal views about what the flag meant to him, I would have respected him for that, regardless if I agreed or not, but when he sat on his high horse and suggested those others who did not think or feel like him were beneath him, that is where he looked like a fool, showing some bias or agenda, instead of compassion for everyone's rights.
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