Drew Brees: Controversial comments

[Hampton Josh fan]

1 minute ago, BarleyNY said:

Not what I addressed in my post.  Try to stay on topic.  But here’s my take concerning police forces:  A necessary component of a democracy is the ability of its citizens to effectively oversee the people who’s job it is to police them.  (Thus the outrage over Trump’s recent threats to utilize the military against US citizens.)  I know nothing specific about any calls to defund police departments, but I fully support implementing reasonable measures to oversee them.  I would not support blanket defunding of all of them, but I would support any array of disciplinary actions against those found to be chronic violators of people’s civil rights.  Actions should have consequences, no?

Can't disagree with the need for oversight, but defunding which Mayor Garcetti and Deblasio (1 billion) guarantee will be cut from next budget. This is a concept that's getting traction in other cities also.

[Hampton Josh fan]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Speaking as someone who lived through riots in St Louis in 2014 and 2016, I doubt they were told “not to engage”; is there any actual PR or news about that?

It was kind of studied here afterwards from various videos available.  The looting is sometimes very fast and coordinated to take advantage of largely peaceful protestors.  It went something like this:

1) Police line involved in containing/trying to disburse peaceful protestors.  Police have instructions to maintain line (for their safety and safety of brother officers)

2) Agitators step forward out of largely peaceful crowd and throw stuff -bricks, cobblestones, bottles of unmentionable fluids, focusing the attention and engaging the police.  They aren’t part of the crowd per se but they have a symbiotic relationship with it, the crowd will generally not expel them or keep them from fading back into it and may copy them

3) Behind the line, accomplices walk along the targeted stores and smash glass with hammers or bats - it takes only moments to smash a door.  They don’t loot, they move on

4) A different group of people will run into the smashed store and strip it in minutes.  They usually have a car or van positioned strategically to load up and get away

 

This is off-topic I know but seemed relevant.  The point is, even if the police have all the will in the world to engage looters, it’s next to impossible in a crowd control situation.  Officers who break the line are at serious personal risk and put others at personal risk, there isn’t enough “line” to protect all the stores, and the crowd makes rapid and flexible police response impossible.

 

As far as defunding police departments, I don’t know what that would look like.  I personally don’t want to see it, but (getting back to the subject at hand) I also want to see real change in how police interact with citizens, and I’m not sure there’s a simple list that would achieve that.

 

What is your personal definition of the words “I felt”?

Good post. I just interpreted Cuomo's condemnation of the police and Deblasio's response, as a continuation of non-intervention policy the Mayor prefers. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

What is your personal definition of the words “I felt”?  It is my perception.  I have game pass and watched every play of Allen last year and this, sometimes several times and in slo-mo.  But in the end, I call it what it is - my personal belief based on what I saw.  Whatever the reason there seemed to be a lot of “extracurricular” at the end of plays towards Allen especially early in his first season and it died off.

 

My personal definition is conjecture (assumption, inference, supposition) matches closely with your perception.  I don't see Allen toning back stiff arming and trying to show-up defenders if he has to, nor did I ever suspect defenders headhunting Allen based on what you call "racist tweets".   

[HappyDays]

 

Watch the whole video if you have the time.

[LB3]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This is... wow.  Seriously ignorant for one thing.  I don’t think most of the protestors come from gated communities.  Honestly you’re part of the problem.

Honestly. You're so quick to declare ignorance that you couldn't even read what he wrote correctly. Who was he referring to that lived in gated communities? 

[BarleyNY]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Watch the whole video if you have the time.

Wow.  This is the world we live in.  Shannon Sharpe is a concise, coherent, well-reasoned and well-spoken voice in the darkness while our President mostly sits in a bunker sending ridiculous tweets, has peaceful protestors tear gassed for a photo op and threatens to use the US military against its own citizens.  Up is down, high is low, dogs and cats living together.  Mass hysteria.  Honestly, this is the most insane time I’ve ever seen.  By a long, long way.  It’s like we’re all in some crazy Truman Show-like reality show and the producers are sitting there wondering how we haven’t figured it all out yet.  Sometimes your head explodes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course it's not the same, and it's appalling

 

But that hasn't happened in over 150 years. And we will never move past it if we never move forward. The vast majority of white Americans today did not have descendants that were slave owners

 

We will be stuck in 1865 if we never move forward as a society.

 

We take two steps Forward and 3 steps back all the time. And it just keeps us spinning in circles

 

Damn, there are times when I just hate being a mod.  It’s so rough to draw the line on what’s needed to support a football-relevant discussion and what’s extra.  Poor me, I know.

 

I assume you mean “ancestors”, and you’re correct about the vast majority.  Still, and not to stray too far off the football-related discussion, systematic violence targeting blacks has continued far, far more recently than 150 years back.  There’s a book “Fire in a Cane Brake” describing a mass lynching that took place in a small Georgia town in 1946.  A large number of people were present but no one would testify and no one was prosecuted.   Anti-Black violence surged after both WW when returning servicemen came home having seen and experienced a different world and black Veterans were targeted - so much for reverence to men and women who served.   Emmett Till.  I’m sure many more.  And then police actions.

 

But you’re also correct that at some point we have to move forward - the goal of the “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” at the end of apartheid in South Africa.  Not sure how well that worked or is working.

 

Tying this in to the topic at hand, while black people’s experience of feeling targeted and unfairly treated by police officers persists and gets reinforced by horrid incidents like an officer kneeling on a man’s neck for 8 minutes, while they feel “there’s justice for the others but not for the brothers”, we’re not going to advance and for cause.  I think another poster on this thread had a bunch of very valid points - we can’t stamp out or mandate change to what’s in people’s hearts.  But we sure as hell can change how they behave OTJ by creating accountability in police departments.  And when there is accountability, behavior changes.   When behavior changes, eventually hearts change.

 

And looping back to the topic at hand - I appreciate Drew Brees viewpoint and the viewpoint of others that to them, the flag and the anthem represent America and the sacrifice of our fallen soldiers.  But just as I don’t think it works to mandate change to people’s hearts to make them not racist, I don’t think it works to mandate change in people’s perception to make the flag and the anthem represent positive patriotism to people who see it flying in front of court buildings where they feel they don’t get a fair shake.  I think “forced patriotism” is meaningless (and antithetical to America) and people should not be forced to participate in patriotic rituals that don’t represent their experience or belief.

 

Sure some of the response to Brees were ugly - people are angry and upset right now.  That’s reality.  He had his say, others had theirs.  They aren’t all Mensa members and even Mensa members can get muddled when their thoughts are full of anger and horror and hopelessness.  The cure is to find hope.

[Billl]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course it's not the same, and it's appalling

 

But that hasn't happened in over 150 years. And we will never move past it if we never move forward. The vast majority of white Americans today did not have descendants that were slave owners

 

We will be stuck in 1865 if we never move forward as a society.

 

We take two steps Forward and 3 steps back all the time. And it just keeps us spinning in circles

Yeah man.  Why don’t African Americans just move forward and get over it?  Ever since 1865, they’ve had it made, amirite?

[Billl]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I have a history degree, it's my passion

 

And yes I totally get what happened after slavery. I'm not ignorant to it and it's terrible, but you specifically talked about slave owners laughing about beating slaves

 

And I say the vast majority because not even close to 50% of white families owned slaves in america. In the South about 35% of white families were slave owners. Some states were higher like 45 50%, but averaged it's about 35%

 

Then when you include the northern states which abolished slavery early, the percentage of total White's all across America who owned slaves is under 15%. The free states had double the population

 

then you add all the millions and millions of whites who immigrated here post-slavery. And you get tons of white families that have never owned slaves. I'm a second-generation American , I didn't even have family here in 1865

 

And in no way am I trying to stick up for slavery and the antebellum South, it's gross sick and an abomination

We don’t allow slavery anymore.  Today, we just  fly the flag of the losers while crying that blacks are disrespectful to our veterans by kneeling. You know what’s disrespectful to our flag?  Flying the confederate flag. 
 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
generalized political discussion of monuments excised

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

My personal definition is conjecture (assumption, inference, supposition) matches closely with your perception.  I don't see Allen toning back stiff arming and trying to show-up defenders if he has to, nor did I ever suspect defenders headhunting Allen based on what you call "racist tweets".   

 

OK.  It’s off topic here.  If I feel moved enough about it, I could double-check my stats and make a football post about it.  Right now, I don’t feel strongly enough.  Let’s just say that for whatever reason, Allen has toned back the stiff-arming quite a bit (and I think that’s a Good Thing), and for whatever reason, the “extracurriculars” (not head hunting per se) also appear to have dialed back.

[BarleyNY]

56 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

Can't disagree with the need for oversight, but defunding which Mayor Garcetti and Deblasio (1 billion) guarantee will be cut from next budget. This is a concept that's getting traction in other cities also.

I just looked this up and the reality is VERY different from what you are indicating.  The proposal is to redistribute $1B over four years our of a $6M yearly budget.  That money would go toward revitalizing disadvantaged neighborhoods.  $250M of $6B is 4.17%.  Quite frankly, I wonder why their budget rose from $4.6B in 2014 to $6B.  Seems like trimming it to $5.75B in 2021 would be manageable.

 

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/04/brutal-math-the-nypds-6b-budget-must-be-cut-advocates-and-lawmakers-say/

Edited June 5, 2020 by BarleyNY

[Golden*Wheels]

3 hours ago, streetkings01 said:

If you guys are not aware I am a black man living in America. I was always taught when a police officer pulls you over, roll all your windows down and keep your hands on the dash and the steering wheel........never reach in your glove compartment for your registration or in your back pocket for your wallet to get your license. When the officer asks for your license and registration you tell the officer.....my license is in my wallet in my back pocket and my registration is in my glove compartment.......is ok if I reach to get my wallet ......is it ok if it’s reach to get my registration. This is something I have to eventually teach my kids when they start driving.........how many people in here were taught this around 15-16 years old?

Sometimes libertarian dads also kind of give "the talk", but from a kind of different angle of course...as soon as I got my license dad told me "Cops have the ability to end every argument or disagreement with a gun. You will lose that argument every time. Don't start it. Be polite, do what they say."

 

And honestly I seem to recall learning the windows down/ engine off (AND STEREO, always blows me away to see people keep cranking tunes as they walk up)  "rule" in driver's ed, but maybe the guy at Sears was just dropping his own knowledge, I don't know if that was actually taught to others in driver's ed.

 

 

 

 

[Hampton Josh fan]

6 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I just looked this up and the reality is VERY different from what you are indicating.  The proposal is to redistribute $1B over four years our of a $6M yearly budget.  That money would go toward revitalizing disadvantaged neighborhoods.  $250M of $6B is 4.17%.  Quite frankly, I wonder why their budget rose from $4.6B in 2014 to $6B.  Seems like trimming it to $5.75B in 2021 would be manageable.

 

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/04/brutal-math-the-nypds-6b-budget-must-be-cut-advocates-and-lawmakers-say/

This a national movement, that has Minneapolis already dismantling their police force,changing their response to emergency calls, moving to neighborhood action groups. Defunding is a knee jerk reaction to George Floyd's murder. The cities that cut funding will be a litmus test on revolutionizing law enforcement. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Billl said:

We don’t allow slavery anymore.  Today, we just  fly the flag of the losers while crying that blacks are disrespectful to our veterans by kneeling. You know what’s disrespectful to our flag?  Flying the confederate flag.

 

It's a valid point (and relevant to the Brees/Kaep discussion) that we don't seem to hear vocal criticism of publically flying the confederate battle flag and displaying it equal to the American flag (and you're right, that is disrespectful to the American flag and to American veterans!), from the same people who vocally criticize kneeling to the flag/anthem.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

Sometimes libertarian dads also kind of give "the talk", but from a kind of different angle of course...as soon as I got my license dad told me "Cops have the ability to end every argument or disagreement with a gun. You will lose that argument every time. Don't start it. Be polite, do what they say."

 

And honestly I seem to recall learning the windows down/ engine off (AND STEREO, always blows me away to see people keep cranking tunes as they walk up)  "rule" in driver's ed, but maybe the guy at Sears was just dropping his own knowledge, I don't know if that was actually taught to others in driver's ed.

 

Now that you mention it, I do recall being taught in Driver's Ed how to behave when stopped by a police officer (turn off engine, engage parking brake, turn off radio, roll down window, keep hands in sight, speak respectfully).   So maybe it was part of the curriculum Back in Da Day.

 

The perspective from the relatives, though, was from the POV of having relatives in LE: "they have a difficult job, they never know when they're going to encounter a crazy or violent person so they are always on edge, make their job easier, make it clear you are not 'that guy'.  Be respectful, say "sir" (not many women police in their day), keep your hands in sight, tell them what you're going to do before you do it."

[Hampton Josh fan]

46 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I just looked this up and the reality is VERY different from what you are indicating.  The proposal is to redistribute $1B over four years our of a $6M yearly budget.  That money would go toward revitalizing disadvantaged neighborhoods.  $250M of $6B is 4.17%.  Quite frankly, I wonder why their budget rose from $4.6B in 2014 to $6B.  Seems like trimming it to $5.75B in 2021 would be manageable.

 

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/04/brutal-math-the-nypds-6b-budget-must-be-cut-advocates-and-lawmakers-say/

I live in NYC. Debasio is universally hated by Dems and GOP. He has alienated NYPD to the extent that they say they feel no support from city Gov't. He now cuts funding, which will effect overtime, headcount and benefits and sensitivity training programs. Why would any rational person put their life on the line to become a cop in that environment.?

[MAJBobby]

On 6/4/2020 at 8:15 AM, billrooter said:

So as a white person Drew Brees now has no right voicing his opinion, one that I agree with. Racism goes both ways, it just isn't covered so thoroughly by the media when it is the other way around. This is a complete S&it S%how in my opinion. What exactly did he say that was wrong, the National Anthem IMO is never a place to protest?

Peoples Opinions on WHEN to use your Rights DO NOT MATTER.  And instead those Opinions are really what is Disrespectful 

[BarleyNY]

29 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

This a national movement, that has Minneapolis already dismantling their police force,changing their response to emergency calls, moving to neighborhood action groups. Defunding is a knee jerk reaction to George Floyd's murder. The cities that cut funding will be a litmus test on revolutionizing law enforcement. 

That’s a sweeping statement and I debunked one example you gave in minutes.  There are looming budget crises in innumerable cities due to the economic slowdown caused by COVID-19.  Police departments are usually impacted the least when cutbacks happen, but they probably won’t dodge them this time due to the magnitude of the budget shortfalls. Rightly, some people have pointed out that under these circumstances PDs should have to shoulder some of the burden. Others do seem to want to do so as a punitive measure.  While I would be wary of using budget cuts punitively, they’ll probably happen this year for economic reasons alone.  Those cuts shouldn’t be confused with punitive ones and it should be up to each city to prioritize their spending.

[Golden*Wheels]

22 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Now that you mention it, I do recall being taught in Driver's Ed how to behave when stopped by a police officer (turn off engine, engage parking brake, turn off radio, roll down window, keep hands in sight, speak respectfully).   So maybe it was part of the curriculum Back in Da Day.

 

The perspective from the relatives, though, was from the POV of having relatives in LE: "they have a difficult job, they never know when they're going to encounter a crazy or violent person so they are always on edge, make their job easier, make it clear you are not 'that guy'.  Be respectful, say "sir" (not many women police in their day), keep your hands in sight, tell them what you're going to do before you do it."

 

Yeah the ask for get your license/tell them before you do it, is stuff I picked up later too. I certainly get the idea of putting the cop at ease and keeping every interaction as easy and friendly as possible. I make no excuses for bad cops, but the way I see some people, of all colors, start off a law enforcement interaction...wow.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

A hypocrite we all are. No one lives perfectly to the principles they espouse.

 

What is also deemed hypocrisy by one person doesn't make it so. The problem is the most people are a terrible judge. Most people are never trained in logic, but they sure think they are. They are the child who accuses his father of hypocrisy because they tell them to go to bed at 10pm and see their father go to bed at 1am.

 

The logic challenged masses are not a judge of hypocrisy.

 

Every man has principles, you do, you think you can call Brees a hypocrite, well tell me you aren't and show me your emails, texts, and a list of 3 of your enemies over the last few years of your life and I guarantee you I'll have a field day. "Wait," you'll say, " it's not fair because there is context to that and people who don't get along with me are bad judges of my character." BINGO

 

Public figures aren't perfect, and they are ripe targets for illogical immature people to cite hypocrisy because they are wanting to put others down to feel morally superior.

 

The reason for his apology tour was he knew he wouldn't have a team to go to, his sponsors would cut him out, and he would seen as a punching bag because of the hatred of what he said and the pressure put on him by his team to stop the angry mob. That's how some people see free speech: free for me but not for thee and if you dare I'll destroy you.

There are varying degrees of phonies. Brees is, and has been for over a decade, a fraud. His image has been carefully crafted and manufactured to protect his future political aspirations. The reality is he isn’t a great dude. He’s no different than anyone else despite the moral high ground that he pretends to stand on. He was just exposed on a much larger scale for the phony that he has always been.