Drew Brees: Controversial comments

[Putin]

8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No, because you made the segue from "Drew Brees taking crap for his opinion" to "Drew Brees has no right to voice his opinion" and put your opinion as a statement "the National Anthem is never a place to protest". 

Understand that different people have different views on that.  It doesn't make them un-American.  The very heart of being American IMHO is the Free Speech right, including the right to protest national symbols.

 

Then why even play the National anthem at games ? It will only create division IMO there will be some ( if not all ) players who will basically be force to take a knee just to keep the locker room United , 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

We have a proposal!  We have a proposal on page 17!  Jauronimo and 3rdand12!

 

 

Can you source that?  Because I've lived long enough to put myself in a high covid-19 risk group and I've never heard that before all the Kaep kerfluffle.  Honest, not a word.

 

 

I think going into confederate monuments and their intent is a bit too far afield from football/Kaep/Brees and should be left for another time

Really? I remember during my college graduation (2009) multiple people refusing to stand for the anthem as a protest to, among other things, American Imperialism. What Kap did wasnt a first.
 

Is it better left for another time? If your husband or wife died in service of their country, and kneeling amounts to spitting on that sacrifice, is that no less impactful? Is the scale of the offense less severe? I think the answer is yes, but I dont it is so “far afield.”

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Putin said:

Then why even play the National anthem at games ? It will only create division IMO there will be some ( if not all ) players who will basically be force to take a knee just to keep the locker room United , 

 

From what I know, playing national anthems is not a big deal at sporting events in other countries.
 

I don't have a crystal ball to know whether the owners would take the same view and whether the players would force each other into lock step - I can't see that working well at all, some of them are pretty, um, hard-core in divergent viewpoints, let's say.

It seems to me the real solution is to have some leadership/a plan to address unnecessary use of force and lack of accountability in policing, then give it some space to see if it works but some would justly say I'm all Pollyanna here.

 

 

 

 

[Billl]

11 minutes ago, Putin said:

Then why even play the National anthem at games ? It will only create division IMO there will be some ( if not all ) players who will basically be force to take a knee just to keep the locker room United , 

Why does any multi billion dollar organization do anything?  Because the military pays the NFL to play it.  It’s literally a paid advertisement.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Really? I remember during my college graduation (2009) multiple people refusing to stand for the anthem as a protest to, among other things, American Imperialism. What Kap did wasnt a first.
 

Is it better left for another time? If your husband or wife died in service of their country, and kneeling amounts to spitting on that sacrifice, is that no less impactful? Is the scale of the offense less severe? I think the answer is yes, but I dont it is so “far afield.”

 

My comment "left for another time and place" regards introducing a discussion of the intent and impact of Confederate monuments.  If you must discuss that, take it somewhere else.  Not happening here and now. 

 

Your statement which I bolded and responded to saying I've never heard that before was "kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment. "  So first off, if people didn't stand, how does that show "kneeling has always been a slight", and second, there's this connection again - that protesting during the anthem = slight to those who serve the country for its betterment".

 

For me, your phrase "if.....kneeling amounts to spitting on that sacrifice".  I can understand the perspective that some have that it is.  But I think those people need to understand in return a different perspective- that it is not, that kneeling is seen as a gesture of respect and prayer and that the flag/anthem acknowledgment thereof are NOT intrinsically connected to the military and honoring the military in the minds of everyone - nor is protesting during the anthem intrinsically a slight to those who served.

[K-9]

52 minutes ago, Needle said:

I went to the Black Lives Matter homepage in honest attempt to see what it is about. The only thing on there is a petition to sign for a demand to defund all police and various t-shirts to buy.

 

Since visiting the site, I get a pop up once a day for the whole defunding of police thing.

 

Point is, BLM is definitely saying all police. 

First of all, the question pertains to Kaep and his response to wearing pig socks. 
 

That said, and in an effort to address the larger political question regarding BLM and defunding police: have you researched why they hold this view? I haven’t as yet. Just wondering if you’ve fully acquainted yourself with their reasoning or just don’t care to because they’re an organization you detest. Detesting something makes it very difficult to learn about. Or does a visit to a website make you an authority on everything an organization stands for? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Billl said:

Why does any multi billion dollar organization do anything?  Because the military pays the NFL to play it.  It’s literally a paid advertisement.

 

Do they really?  I thought that " advertisement" applied to color guards and military flyovers, but I thought that playing the anthem etc at sporting events was a tradition that started during an upsurge of patriotism at Baseball games during WWI, then spread to football by order of the NFL commissioner at the end of WWII (another time of surging patriotism).

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My comment "left for another time and place" regards introducing a discussion of the intent and impact of Confederate monuments.  If you must discuss that, take it somewhere else.  Not happening here and now. 

 

Your statement which I bolded and responded to saying I've never heard that before was "kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment. "  So first off, if people didn't stand, how does that show "kneeling has always been a slight", and second, there's this connection again - that protesting during the anthem = slight to those who serve the country for its betterment".

 

For me, your phrase "if.....kneeling amounts to spitting on that sacrifice".  I can understand the perspective that some have that it is.  But I think those people need to understand in return a different perspective- that it is not, that kneeling is seen as a gesture of respect and prayer and that the flag/anthem acknowledgment thereof are NOT intrinsically connected to the military and honoring the military in the minds of everyone - nor is protesting during the anthem intrinsically a slight to those who served.

 

[edit discussion of confederate monuments - take it elsewhere]

 

I don't really have an answer to your second part. All I have is that I have always known that to be case. I was told as much by people who refused to stand for the anthem (in that instance, they were inspired by their opposition to the war in Iraq). I appreciate that is not the sort of authority you were looking for. To be honest, I've never seen anyone suggest that not standing is anything but a slight.  In any event, I don't think there is a reasonable argument to be made that not standing for the anthem is disconnected from those who served to protect and honor our country. 

 

Your third piece brings me back to my original point: intent or perspective is irrelevant. If an action (or monument) with respect to a symbol is intentionally disrespectful to what that symbol represents, it does not matter that there are those that don't "see" it that way.  In other words, there cannot be competing interpretations.  The confederate monuments are racist, period, regardless of intent.  Not standing for the anthem disrespects our service members, period, regardless of intent. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
limit scope more or less to football

[Needle]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

First of all, the question pertains to Kaep and his response to wearing pig socks. 
 

That said, and in an effort to address the larger political question regarding BLM and defunding police: have you researched why they hold this view? I haven’t as yet. Just wondering if you’ve fully acquainted yourself with their reasoning or just don’t care to because they’re an organization you detest. Detesting something makes it very difficult to learn about. Or does a visit to a website make you an authority on everything an organization stands for? 

It is not an organization I detest. It is something I haven't researched enough. You seem to be awfully snarky about something you don't know much about.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Needle

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, Needle said:

It is not an organization I detest. It is something I haven't researched enough. You seem to be awfully snarky about something you don't know much about.

If you haven’t researched it enough, what is your point about the emails you received regarding defunding the police? 
 

My snark stems from you inserting BLM into a conversation about Kaepernick when I never brought them up, just to make a political point. It’s also a product of me not believing that it’s an organization you don’t detest. 

[Needle]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

If you haven’t researched it enough, what is your point about the emails you received regarding defunding the police? 
 

My snark stems from you inserting BLM into a conversation about Kaepernick when I never brought them up, just to make a political point. It’s also a product of me not believing that it’s an organization you don’t detest. 

I really don't care what you believe. You have never met me and have nothing to go on. You said that Kap wasn't against all police. I know that Kap is big into BLM. I simply shared what seems to be their only mission statement as a demand to defund all police. 

 

I served in the Marines with a guy whose father was the head of the NAACP in Houston. I learned a lot about the things that organization does. This friend of mine brought his father to various events. It's not hard to find a clear investment into the black community that the NAACP devotes itself too. Education, legal representation, business investment, etc.

 

I'm sorry that I couldn't find that stuff with BLM. It doesn't make me the racist that you are dying to call me.

[Billl]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Do they really?  I thought that " advertisement" applied to color guards and military flyovers, but I thought that playing the anthem etc at sporting events was a tradition that started during an upsurge of patriotism at Baseball games during WWI, then spread to football by order of the NFL commissioner at the end of WWII (another time of surging patriotism).

 

It started that way, but like anything else it’s become commercialized by sponsorships.  In this case, the DoD.  Whether it’s the song itself they’re paying for or the ceremonies surrounding it with the color guard, flyovers, salute to service, etc., the league would be missing out on revenue by nixing it, so that’s a non-starter.  (Of course not having it now would cause an even bigger uproar from he “look at me” patriot types who demand players stand for the anthems while they lie on the couch and drink beer.)

Edited June 4, 2020 by Billl

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

That doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with what Brees said about never wanting to disrespect the flag or anthem.     Kap's kneeling is just a symbol, not the end unto itself.

 

In today's binary world, it seems there's little ability to hold more than one belief, which is pretty sad, actually...

As a old white guy I agreed with Kaep and his kneeling. He used this platform to draw attention to the systemic racism that has existed in the country for way too long. It was never about disrespecting the flag. And last I checked, the flag also stands for "liberty and justice for all". Not just for white people. Drew screwed up during a very volatile yet important time in our country. He was tone deaf. I don't consider Brees a racist but he did speak with a sense of entitlement. When that flag goes up I think of alot more than my marine corp father who got to return to a world of white privilege.  Black military didn't experience that luxury. Change has to happen now. We need to listen and do a hell of alot more than has been done over the last several decades. 

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

That doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with what Brees said about never wanting to disrespect the flag or anthem.     Kap's kneeling is just a symbol, not the end unto itself.

 

In today's binary world, it seems there's little ability to hold more than one belief, which is pretty sad, actually...

This is dead on accurate...nicely done, sir!

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

[discussion of confed. monuments excised]

 

I don't really have an answer to your second part. All I have is that I have always known that to be case. I was told as much by people who refused to stand for the anthem (in that instance, they were inspired by their opposition to the war in Iraq). I appreciate that is not the sort of authority you were looking for. To be honest, I've never seen anyone suggest that not standing is anything but a slight.  In any event, I don't think there is a reasonable argument to be made that not standing for the anthem is disconnected from those who served to protect and honor our country. 

 

Your third piece brings me back to my original point: intent or perspective is irrelevant. If an action (or monument) with respect to a symbol is intentionally disrespectful to what that symbol represents, it does not matter that there are those that don't "see" it that way.  In other words, there cannot be competing interpretations.  The confederate monuments are racist, period, regardless of intent.  Not standing for the anthem disrespects our service members, period, regardless of intent. 

This is tortured logic at best.  Intent or perspective is irrelevant?  They are entirely relevant and the absolutes you claim simply do not exist.  Kneeling for the anthem is only disrespectful to service members for those believe that to be true.  I have spoken to many current and former service members who would vehemently disagree with your interpretation and tell you that that is what they fought for.  Many from all walks of life and all races would disagree with you.  It is not an absolute.  Legitimate non-violent protest of social injustice is in fact the whole ball of wax when it comes to freedom in America.  This point continues to elude many people.  

  

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
limit scope to football

[Needle]

2 minutes ago, FLFan said:

This is tortured logic at best.  Intent or perspective is irrelevant?  They are entirely relevant and the absolutes you claim simply do not exist.  Kneeling for the anthem is only disrespectful to service members for those believe that to be true.  I have spoken to many current and former service members who would vehemently disagree with your interpretation and tell you that that is what they fought for.  Many from all walks of life and all races would disagree with you.  It is not an absolute.  Legitimate non-violent protest of social injustice is in fact the whole ball of wax when it comes to freedom in America.  This point continues to elude many people.  

  

I have zero problem with players kneeling for the anthem. I don't know a single service member who cares either. I don't think it is a very productive practice though. It doesn't make much sense to distract from the message IMO. 

[GoBills808]

pos Drew Brees and his 'military respect' bs

 

This from the guy who once compared the CBA negotiations to the Iraq War...lmfao 

 

 

Protesting for $$ is okay, otherwise Drew doesn't approve

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Needle said:

I really don't care what you believe. You have never met me and have nothing to go on. You said that Kap wasn't against all police. I know that Kap is big into BLM. I simply shared what seems to be their only mission statement as a demand to defund all police. 

 

I served in the Marines with a guy whose father was the head of the NAACP in Houston. I learned a lot about the things that organization does. This friend of mine brought his father to various events. It's not hard to find a clear investment into the black community that the NAACP devotes itself too. Education, legal representation, business investment, etc.

 

I'm sorry that I couldn't find that stuff with BLM. It doesn't make me the racist that you are dying to call me.

Dying to call you a racist? Not at all. 
 

In the cursory research I’ve done, it seems BLM’s desire to defund police is a bit misguided as it would exacerbate some of the systemic community issues they wish to address. 
 

But some of the reasoning is understandable on the surface as some of the policies they originally advocated for and have seen adopted since their inception like training initiatives and body cams haven’t resulted in the kind of across the board improvement in the lessening of the brutality they’d like to see. It’s no coincidence that this demand to defund comes on the heels of a cold blooded murder at the hands of four police officers when tensions are at their highest. 
 

What is your take on the term, “black lives matter?” Do you see it as exclusionary? 

[Needle]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Dying to call you a racist? Not at all. 
 

In the cursory research I’ve done, it seems BLM’s desire to defund police is a bit misguided as it would exacerbate some of the systemic community issues they wish to address. 
 

But some of the reasoning is understandable on the surface as some of the policies they originally advocated for and have seen adopted since their inception like training initiatives and body cams haven’t resulted in the kind of across the board improvement in the lessening of the brutality they’d like to see. It’s no coincidence that this demand to defund comes on the heels of a cold blooded murder at the hands of four police officers when tensions are at their highest. 
 

What is your take on the term, “black lives matter?” Do you see it as exclusionary? 

I believe that the black community is in need of significant help. I am willing to be a part of the solution even if it means less for me. I think police reform is in order and I would support any kind of improvement suggestions. However I don't think police reform is high on the list of things that would help the black community. I also think a blanketed statement of "defund the police" is pointless.

 

The term Black lives matter is not offensive to me nor is it meaningful. I don't think it means much nor do I think the movement is helping our poor. The black community has been taken advantage of once again by both parties. I have disdain for Republicans and Democrats.

 

Sorry for the political stuff. I know it doesn't belong here.

 

Go Bills?

[HOUSE]

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