FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, K-9 said: You need to justify your outrage by painting with large brushes. Simple as that. The fact you can’t accept a direct explanation from those who took part in a protest you found distasteful is proof of that. You NEED to project your own intentions rather than accept, from the person himself, the why of it all. But I understand. Evolved thinking often requires us to confront uncomfortable realities in ourselves. You’re killing it today! When did Kaep enunciate his intentions with the pig socks?
Warcodered Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I don't recall the explanation, and I can't get behind the pay wall. Isn't it something to the effect of: Kap originally sat to protest, and then, after people complained it was disrespectful, he started kneeling instead to show that respect? they talked with a veteran and kneeling was his suggestion to stay respectful.
Sherlock Holmes Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 7 hours ago, billrooter said: So as a white person Drew Brees now has no right voicing his opinion, one that I agree with. Racism goes both ways, it just isn't covered so thoroughly by the media when it is the other way around. This is a complete S&it S%how in my opinion. What exactly did he say that was wrong, the National Anthem IMO is never a place to protest? 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No, because you made the segue from "Drew Brees taking crap for his opinion" to "Drew Brees has no right to voice his opinion" and put your opinion as a statement "the National Anthem is never a place to protest". Understand that different people have different views on that. It doesn't make them un-American. The very heart of being American IMHO is the Free Speech right, including the right to protest national symbols. Well, I know we are all here sitting and wishing Tom Brady would've weighed in and given his views on what is going on in the world a couple years ago
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 7 hours ago, SWATeam said: And many gave their lives so that we may live in a free country where protests are allowed. And I respect That all day everyday. Kneeling is not disrespect in my opinion. Poor Drew. so misunderstood. Appreciate the insight from Kirby for sure. ty Like the Wise Sage Red Green said "we are all in this thing together " 1 hour ago, K-9 said: My question is, why can’t you take Kaepernick’s and others’ explanation for why they took a knee? it is for prayer Tis also perceived as an act of submission in some cultures.
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: I don't recall the explanation, and I can't get behind the pay wall. Isn't it something to the effect of: Kap originally sat to protest, and then, after people complained it was disrespectful, he started kneeling instead to show that respect? That was part of it, certainly. Here’s an excerpt from Reid’s article that I linked: Quote I approached Colin the Saturday before our next game to discuss how I could get involved with the cause but also how we could make a more powerful and positive impact on the social justice movement. We spoke at length about many of the issues that face our community, including systemic oppression against people of color, police brutality and the criminal justice system. We also discussed how we could use our platform, provided to us by being professional athletes in the N.F.L., to speak for those who are voiceless. After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy. It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest. It should go without saying that I love my country and I’m proud to be an American. But, to quote James Baldwin, “exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.” The outrage is all about our tribal politics. 54 minutes ago, FireChans said: When did Kaep enunciate his intentions with the pig socks? On September 1, 2016. "I wore these socks, in the past, because the rogue cops that are allowed to hold positions in police departments, not only put the community in danger, but also put the cops that have the right intentions in danger by creating an environment of tension and mistrust. I have two uncles and friends who are police officers and work to protect and serve ALL people. So before these socks, which were worn before I took my public stance, are used to distract from the real issues, I wanted to address this immediately."
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: Exactly. Squirting condiments is the ultimate sign of disrespect. Thats why we do it to Pinto Ron. I bet he'd kneel for the anthem. Thank you. Voice of sense and reason appears. are you married btw ?
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, K-9 said: That was part of it, certainly. Here’s an excerpt from Reid’s article that I linked: The outrage is all about our tribal politics. On September 1, 2016. "I wore these socks, in the past, because the rogue cops that are allowed to hold positions in police departments, not only put the community in danger, but also put the cops that have the right intentions in danger by creating an environment of tension and mistrust. I have two uncles and friends who are police officers and work to protect and serve ALL people. So before these socks, which were worn before I took my public stance, are used to distract from the real issues, I wanted to address this immediately." Oh so 20 days later than when he wore them on August 10th. He sure got ahead of that one. He even said he wore them BEFORE he took a public stance. Edited June 4, 2020 by FireChans
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Warren Zevon said: The elephant in a room of mice. intense visual right there. Thank You ? 1
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, K-9 said: That was part of it, certainly. Here’s an excerpt from Reid’s article that I linked: The outrage is all about our tribal politics. That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology. However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit.... I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America. Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment. Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism. Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive.
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: Oh so 20 days later than when he wore them on August 10th. He sure got ahead of that one. Nice deflection. You hate Colin Kaepernick. Just leave it at that and move on. You are incapable of honest discussion on the matter. 1 1
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology. However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit.... I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America. Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment. Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism. Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive. Is that true? Kneeling in general is a sign of respect/contemplation. Before Kaep I cannot recall anyone kneeling for anthems (let alone it being a slight to the country). 1
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology. However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit.... I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America. Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment. Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism. Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive. I did not know that. Help me a bit on this please : ) sincere ask my friend
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: Nice deflection. You hate Colin Kaepernick. Just leave it at that and move on. You are incapable of honest discussion on the matter. I don’t hate him. His supporters were annoying. You were right that he did talk about his socks. Unfortunately, that was almost a month AFTER he wore them, AND before he came out as a spokesperson for police brutality awareness. He bombed himself in the court of public opinion by doing so. Which is all the more sad considering that he may have actually been able to do some good if he hadn’t. Edited June 4, 2020 by FireChans
3rdand12 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: Is that true? Kneeling in general is a sign of respect/contemplation. Before Kaep I cannot recall anyone kneeling for anthems (let alone it being a slight to the country). quick draw DBDBDB lol
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said: quick draw DBDBDB lol I think under official TBD rules you owe me a coke
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: I did not know that. Help me a bit on this please : ) sincere ask my friend 6 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: Is that true? Kneeling in general is a sign of respect/contemplation. Before Kaep I cannot recall anyone kneeling for anthems (let alone it being a slight to the country). I have to be honest, I don't actually know the answer. I'm sort of just thinking about the whole thing critically. I assume that is true, simply because the convention is to stand to show respect, implying that doing the opposite is a sign of disrespect, but I could be wrong. I really just assume the point to get to a place where I can ask: does intent matter when interpreting symbols? Edited June 4, 2020 by JoshAllenHasBigHands
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said: Thank you. Voice of sense and reason appears. are you married btw ? I am not married.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: I am not married. Who would have thought this thread included a marriage proposal? 2
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: That is about what I remember, and why I cam around to Kap's methodology. However, if I may complicate the analysis a bit.... I wonder whether there is room for intent and opinion regarding the meaning of symbols in today's America. Kap's intent aside, kneeling for the anthem has always been a slight to the country and those who served for its betterment. Think about it in terms of the confederate monuments. The intent, so to speak, for many southerners was that those monuments represented honor, pride, etc. BLM and others said no, they represent racism. Furthermore, because it was racist, it didn't matter what the intent was for those who idolized the monuments. Therefore, the monuments could not stand. Apply that analysis here. I'm not sure Kap gets to rewrite the meaning of his actions, even if his intent is not meant to be offensive. Should a symbol ever mean more than the right of the people it represents? Yeah, we have a problem with symbols in this country alright. I refuse to comment on the rest of your post. But I will recommend visiting the great libraries and state houses of the South and researching letters, news articles, speeches, etc., made by confederate leadership both before, during, and immediately after the Civil War. 1 1
Augie Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Mango said: But players are political at work (the NFL), and the NFL is not banishing or forbidding them (other than Kaep possibly). So I guess you don't have a problem with it, since their employer is allowing it? I have a problem with inequality and police brutality. I also have a problem with people using their place of employment to demonstrate. Both of these things can be true. The employer is tolerating it to some point because they are between a rock and a hard place. They are certainly not FOR it, and I’m sure they are for equality as well. There is a time and a place for everything. It’s fine if we may disagree here.
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