Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Oh wow, well if PEOPLE do that, then everyone must agree with it! I am very smart. That was low effort and dumb, even for you. Lets not conflate the flag, with the anthem, with the military, and with the country as a whole. The flag used to fly in every classroom. Did you stand all day at school or stand at attention? 1
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: No one is silencing Brees. How exactly is kneeling disrespecting a flag? We don't stand for the flag, we stand for the national anthem. People sit, stand, do cartwheels, and lay down near flags all the time. Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? 1
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. His words say something else, though. Is there a reason you do not believe what he says?
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: That was low effort and dumb, even for you. Lets not conflate the flag, with the anthem, with the military, and with the country as a whole. The flag used to fly in every classroom. Did you stand all day at school or stand at attention? I did the pledge of allegiance every morning. The flag flew at half mast every time there was a tragedy to symbolize our unity as Americans. Didn’t you?
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? His intentions are clearly to disrespect the anthem. He's been on record that he believes its a poor composition.
Andrew Son Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? Right. People are not allowed to have opinions about Drew's opinions... 1
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Warren Zevon said: His words say something else, though. Is there a reason you do not believe what he says? Yes. Because his actions prove his intent? This isn't me saying Kapernick is un-American or horrible or anything else. In fact, in a vacuum outside of him and my opinions on this, we can still logically deduce what is happening. The National Anthem plays as a tribute to the flag of the United States of America. Attendees are asked to stand and remove their hats and place their hands on their heart while facing the flag to honor our flag and our Country. (honor = respect). From this moment there's three actions possible: 1- stand and show respect/honor to the anthem and the flag. 2- sit and don't move which is, I suppose, neutral at best, but likely more negative. 3- Do some other thing to demonstrate a rebellion to the act of showing honor and respect, such as kneeling. Thus showing, and declaring outright, that you neither respect nor honor the flag. How is this so hard to understand? 1
soflabillsfan1 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, SWATeam said: Right. People are not allowed to have opinions about Drew's opinions... People opinion is Bree's has to change his opinion to fit theirs or risk being cast out of society. Pathetic
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Yes. Because his actions prove his intent? This isn't me saying Kapernick is un-American or horrible or anything else. In fact, in a vacuum outside of him and my opinions on this, we can still logically deduce what is happening. The National Anthem plays as a tribute to the flag of the United States of America. Attendees are asked to stand and remove their hats and place their hands on their heart while facing the flag to honor our flag and our Country. (honor = respect). From this moment there's three actions possible: 1- stand and show respect/honor to the anthem and the flag. 2- sit and don't move which is, I suppose, neutral at best, but likely more negative. 3- Do some other thing to demonstrate a rebellion to the act of showing honor and respect, such as kneeling. Thus showing, and declaring outright, that you neither respect nor honor the flag. How is this so hard to understand? Kneeling with attention to the flag shows much more respect than sitting and not moving. IMO
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: His intentions are clearly to disrespect the anthem. He's been on record that he believes its a poor composition. You're saying he's protesting the music itself? Yikes. This whole situation has been misrepresented. As for your "only the anthem argument" I appreciate you trying that, but there's really no way to separate the anthem from the flag: Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early lightWhat so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet waveO'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: I did the pledge of allegiance every morning. The flag flew at half mast every time there was a tragedy to symbolize our unity as Americans. Didn’t you? We did the pledge every morning. Its quite strange looking back at it that as a 5 year old I swore allegiance to the flag and my country every morning. But after the pledge we sat down. So it seems that the act of sitting or taking a knee isn't disrespecting a flag else we're all guilty. Kaep always stood for God Bless America.
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Warren Zevon said: Kneeling with attention to the flag shows much more respect than sitting and not moving. IMO I mean, okay. But his act of kneeling was a statement that he refused to stand for the flag.... Which is to say he refuses to stand in respect of it. Outside of his agenda and the points he was trying to make, his was still an act of rebellious disrespect. Again, from a purely semantics point of view, how can this be debated?
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? All due respect, but that’s your interpretation of his intentions. Kaepernick and others have explained their intentions on numerous occasions. We just refuse to take them at face value. There are probably a myriad of reasons for that, but I suspect they revolve around our need to project our own intentions in some defensive manner.
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: We did the pledge every morning. Its quite strange looking back at it that as a 5 year old I swore allegiance to the flag and my country every morning. But after the pledge we sat down. So it seems that the act of sitting or taking a knee isn't disrespecting a flag else we're all guilty. Kaep always stood for God Bless America. You sat??? We stood everyday. You were indoctrinated by a self-loathing culinary arts school.
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: All due respect, but that’s your interpretation of his intentions. Kaepernick and others have explained their intentions on numerous occasions. We just refuse to take them at face value. There are probably a myriad of reasons for that, but I suspect they revolve around our need to project our own intentions in some defensive manner. All due respect, but you're missing my point: 7 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Yes. Because his actions prove his intent? This isn't me saying Kapernick is un-American or horrible or anything else. In fact, in a vacuum outside of him and my opinions on this, we can still logically deduce what is happening. The National Anthem plays as a tribute to the flag of the United States of America. Attendees are asked to stand and remove their hats and place their hands on their heart while facing the flag to honor our flag and our Country. (honor = respect). From this moment there's three actions possible: 1- stand and show respect/honor to the anthem and the flag. 2- sit and don't move which is, I suppose, neutral at best, but likely more negative. 3- Do some other thing to demonstrate a rebellion to the act of showing honor and respect, such as kneeling. Thus showing, and declaring outright, that you neither respect nor honor the flag. How is this so hard to understand?
Motorin' Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I doubt it. But a person can recognize how their beliefs impact others without changing theirs. This is Brees apology: "I would like to apologize to my friends, teammates, the City of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community and anyone I hurt with my comments yesterday," Brees wrote in an Instagram post. "In speaking with some of you, it breaks my heart to know the pain I have caused." He's not apologizing for his views, he's apologizing for causing hurt and pain with his comments. I don't think Brees would have angered anyone if he had said, "I can never see myself taking a knee... This is what the anthem means to me, and it will always mean that... But I respect that other people see it differently than I do." What seems to have made people angry was to suggest that taking a knee dishonors his grandfathers and the men who fought in WWII. 1
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, whatdrought said: All due respect, but you're missing my point: Have you considered the option that everyone understands your oversimplifications and still disagrees? Kaepernick spoke at great length what he was protesting. To disregard his words because of an idiom like "actions speak louder than words" while disregarding all of his other actions is about as compelling as citing "breakfast is the most important meal of day" for why Kaep meant to disrespect the flag. 2 1
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: Have you considered the option that everyone understands your oversimplifications and still disagrees? Kaepernick spoke at great length what he was protesting. To disregard his words because of an idiom like "actions speak louder than words" while disregarding all of his other actions is about as compelling as citing "breakfast is the most important meal of day" for why Kaep meant to disrespect the flag. Explain the pig socks bro.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Motorin' said: I don't think Brees would have angered anyone if he had said, "I can never see myself taking a knee... This is what the anthem means to me, and it will always mean that... But I respect that other people see it differently than I do." What seems to have made people angry was to suggest that taking a knee dishonors his grandfathers and the men who fought in WWII. Agree. Lot of things he could have said that could have expressed his viewpoint but acknowledged other people's views (and their pain) 1
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: All due respect, but you're missing my point: How, exactly? You clearly stated that you know that Kaepernick’s intention was to disrespect the flag. I pointed out that he and others have explained that wasn’t their intention and that we just can’t accept that. Simple enough. What greater point did you make that I missed? Actually, never mind. I get it and it’s been hashed over ad nauseam.
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