jimmy10 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Now I’m as bedwetting a liberal as there ever was, so my opinions on all of this are pretty unsurprising. But a good buddy of mine, Air Force vet from the first Gulf War, republican, and even had a couple stints as an elected official in local government, is sickened by many aspects of this, from the backlash against Kaep to Breese’s comments, and the belief that the flag, anthem, etc are somehow sacrosanct and untouchable. I’m reminded of a great rap lyric from the early 90s on the flag-burning topic, by the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy: ”Any flag worth a sh** was woven from fire in the first place.” 2
loyal2dagame Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: the thing is you can stand hand over heart but once you say you don’t agree with others choice not to you have invited their feedback since you are judging their actions. in a locker room setting the dude needs to know better. Not quite. Not agreeing with something without action is tolerance- accepting a person's right to do something, and that is part of what is missing in all this.
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, jimmy10 said: Now I’m as bedwetting a liberal as there ever was, so my opinions on all of this are pretty unsurprising. But a good buddy of mine, Air Force vet from the first Gulf War, republican, and even had a couple stints as an elected official in local government, is sickened by many aspects of this, from the backlash against Kaep to Breese’s comments, and the belief that the flag, anthem, etc are somehow sacrosanct and untouchable. I’m reminded of a great rap lyric from the early 90s on the flag-burning topic, by the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy: ”Any flag worth a sh** was woven from fire in the first place.” That is a great lyric. 1
Coach Tuesday Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: This right here is exactly what is wrong with this country. The hypocrisy, and it happens on every side. And that's yet another aspect to it. Legions of people believe (and some have said to to me), in words or substance, since "we" (white people) pay "them" (black athletes) millions of dollars to entertain us, "they" should stand for the anthem. Or alternatively (as expressed by a poster in another one of the Brees threads): "we" (white people) built this society, "they" (black people) didn't and they're just disrespecting and looting it. Folks actually believe that. Let me be clear about it: if you believe those things, you're probably a racist. That's my opinion. Edited June 4, 2020 by Coach Tuesday 1 1
Johnnycage46 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: This right here is exactly what is wrong with this country. The hypocrisy, and it happens on every side. Yikes, that is pretty embarrassing. She could not be a bigger hypocrite there. 2
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said: Not quite. Not agreeing with something without action is tolerance- accepting a person's right to do something, and that is part of what is missing in all this. “you shouldn’t do that” often begets “you should shut up and mind your own business” when someone’s making a thoughtful statement “I made a personal choice to support in this manner instead and encourage my teammates to do what they believe works Best for them because my locker room is full of smart and empowered men” plays a little different. Edited June 4, 2020 by NoSaint 2
HappyDays Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 4 hours ago, billrooter said: the Flag is a symbol many have given their lifes for Soldiers gave their lives to protect our freedoms, most notably the freedom of speech.
Tesla03 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) Sorry but if you say "he is allowed this have his views leave him alone" you are basically admitting police brutality against blacks and other minorities is perfectly OK Brees comments are utterly delusional and idiotic and he deserves all the hate coming towards him. he still can't understand that kneeling has nothing to do with the stupid american flag and freedom and whatever BS Edited June 4, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan gratuitous political reference 1
Johnnycage46 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: And that's yet another aspect to it. Legions of people believe (and some have said to to me), in words or substance, since "we" (white people) pay "them" (black athletes) millions of dollars to entertain us, "they" should stand for the anthem. Or alternatively (as expressed by a poster in another one of the Brees threads): "we" (white people) built this society, "they" (black people) didn't and they're just disrespecting and looting it. Folks actually believe that. Let me be clear about it: if you believe those things, you're probably a racist. That's my opinion. Sad, and unfortunately true. It's also sad that those people you refer to don't think black people helped literally build this country while being enslaved. Pretty unbelievable.
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: And that's yet another aspect to it. Legions of people believe (and some have said to to me), in words or substance, since "we" (white people) pay "them" (black athletes) millions of dollars to entertain us, "they" should stand for the anthem. Or alternatively (as expressed by a poster in another one of the Brees threads): "we" (white people) built this society, "they" (black people) didn't and they're just disrespecting and looting it. Folks actually believe that. Let me be clear about it: if you believe those things, you're probably a racist. That's my opinion. Holy !@#$! Somebody actually posted that? That is perhaps the dumbest and most ignorant statement in the history of this forum! People who believe that are not only as racist as it gets, but they are utterly clueless about our country and who “built it.” 1
Augie Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 For the last several years I’ve gone to some tennis courts at a park almost daily. There will be dozens of people there on an average day with decent weather, and I am almost always the only white guy. I’ve always felt I was fairly open and enlightened, but one day I realized I was not as enlightened as I thought. One of my buddies looks up toward the road and says “Hey! Look! They changed the paint job on them cop cars!” I look up and saw a cop car, but I just knew it was a cop car. There are all kinds of cop cars, local, state, troopers, sheriffs, etc. No big deal to me. He thought that was hysterical! “Hey guys, he doesn’t even know the paint jobs on the cop cars!” Apparently I was the ONLY one there who didn’t take this as a serious event. They ALL have their eyes out for the cop cars. They have a different life experience. That day made me stop and take notice. As hard as I may try to understand what it’s like for them, I’ll never walk in their shoes. 1 1
Coach Tuesday Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, K-9 said: Holy !@#$! Somebody actually posted that? That is perhaps the dumbest and most ignorant statement in the history of this forum! People who believe that are not only as racist as it gets, but they are utterly clueless about our country and who “built it.” It's in the locked Brees thread on the main page, easy to find.
Augie Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Soldiers gave their lives to protect our freedoms, most notably the freedom of speech. Three basic thoughts: * People have the freedom to express themselves. * I have the right to form opinions of them based upon how they express themselves. * If you do it on the job, you have put your job on the line. If I wanted to “express myself” at the bank it would not last long. I’m there to do a job and despite not having a contract prohibiting that expression I’d either stop or be gone.
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Tesla03 said: and now the flag is associated with right wing fascism. Has been for quite a while. It’s sickening, but it’s a fact that these extremist groups fly our flag right next to theirs. 1
Reader Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tesla03 said: Sorry but if you say "he is allowed this have his views leave him alone" you are basically admitting police brutality against blacks and other minorities is perfectly OK Brees comments are utterly delusional and idiotic and he deserves all the hate coming towards him. he still can't understand that kneeling has nothing to do with the stupid american flag and freedom and whatever BS right wing fascists love to pretend they care about. Wouldn't logically then the same people shouldn't respond in this thread/to those players as they should leave the people responding to Brees alone?
Tesla03 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: Has been for quite a while. It’s sickening, but it’s a fact that these extremist groups fly our flag right next to theirs. and our president is the leader of the biggest extremest group and biggest terrorist organization in the world, the US military!
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Tesla03 said: and our president is the leader of the biggest extremest group and biggest terrorist organization in the world, the US military! My advice is don’t go there in this thread or it will be locked down. 2 1
Tesla03 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: My advice is don’t go there in this thread or it will be locked down. why is this thread at 12 pages already then? every other time a (black) athlete speaks about politics folks on this forum say they should keep quiet. but with Brees he deserves to "have his opinion" even though his opinion is completely against everything the whole country is fighting for right now. 1
Trekking Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Things I don't get: Kaepernick is about as privileged as one can get. Raised by a rich white family who loved and supported him in every way. Only started protesting once his career was already over and abused a just cause for money. Lebron James wouldn't attack China whatsoever because of money, but now wants to attack football players for, god forbid, not jumping for joy about a cause he doesn't understand? As righteous as any protest may be, both of these people have ZERO credibility to talk on the manner. Yet, they're pointed to as heroes? hypocrits.
HappyDays Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Augie said: If you do it on the job, you have put your job on the line. If I wanted to “express myself” at the bank it would not last long. I’m there to do a job and despite not having a contract prohibiting that expression I’d either stop or be gone. I normally agree but there aren't many jobs where you have to stand for the anthem. And I don't agree that NFL players have regular jobs. There is a long history of professional athletes standing for racial equality. I mean if Kaepernick was running a banner onto the field and putting his face in the camera that would be too much but a simple silent protest like that shouldn't be banned. I honestly think the issues he is protesting are far more important than "respecting the flag." One issue is real, the other is just an emotional thing. I'm not saying anyone is wrong to respect the flag, it's a generational thing, but at the same time understand that other people look at the flag in a different light. Edited June 4, 2020 by HappyDays
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