eball Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 What strikes me as odd is how many people think they "know" what Josh is and what he isn't. News flash: you don't. 1 1
Shaw66 Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, eball said: What strikes me as odd is how many people think they "know" what Josh is and what he isn't. News flash: you don't. Well, in some ways we know exactly what he is. We just don't know what he will become. What do I mean? Well, unlike most of us, Josh actually has a job that can be evaluate with numbers. We have Josh's numbers, so we know what he was in 2018 and we know what he was in 2019. Some people seem to think that what we saw in 2019 is what he will be. Others agree that Josh is likely to improve. There's a lot of debate about how much he can be expected to improve. We also know some other things about Josh. We've heard a lot of people talk about some of his characteristic. So we know who he is as a leader, for example. We know who he is in terms of work ethic. We know who he is in terms of competitiveness. We know, to some extent, who he is in terms of natural intelligence. We know all of those things, so that means in some sense we actually do know who he is and who he isn't. All of that information gives us some ability to project what he will be. I made my projection above.
Bring it Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 49 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: You're right, and I'll go beyond that. Josh Allen is going to eliminate his weaknesses. Listening to this coach, listening to McBeane talk about why they drafted him, it's clear to me that Allen is a learning machine. He wants to keep learning how to win. That's the point the coach makes about Josh learning to dial back his desired to do everything himself. He's learning that's not the way to win. He's learning how far to dial it back, and when to turn it up a notch. This notion that he's a learning machine is what makes me expect him eventually to play with great discipline, like Brady. Josh is learning, game after game, what things maximize the chances of winning, and he's incorporating those things into his game. In another couple of years we're going to be looking at a guy with one of the great arms in the history of game who has learned to eliminate his mistakes. INTs will be low, fumbles will be low, completion percentage will be high, and he will be one of the most dangerous weapons in the NFL. Believe it. It's coming. That's who Allen is. He's over the hump already, and he isn't close to being finished learning. I have had that same belief in Josh since early on. Probably the Vikings game of his rookie season. He just does some things that other Qbs can’t. Throws, hurdling linebackers, diving for what seemed like 5 yards to reach the goal line!! Yet not many ints. I just haven’t had the guts to predict it happening. Wait and see approach. He is going to take this team somewhere special!!
eball Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 59 minutes ago, Shaw66 said: Well, in some ways we know exactly what he is. We just don't know what he will become. What do I mean? Well, unlike most of us, Josh actually has a job that can be evaluate with numbers. We have Josh's numbers, so we know what he was in 2018 and we know what he was in 2019. Some people seem to think that what we saw in 2019 is what he will be. Others agree that Josh is likely to improve. There's a lot of debate about how much he can be expected to improve. We also know some other things about Josh. We've heard a lot of people talk about some of his characteristic. So we know who he is as a leader, for example. We know who he is in terms of work ethic. We know who he is in terms of competitiveness. We know, to some extent, who he is in terms of natural intelligence. We know all of those things, so that means in some sense we actually do know who he is and who he isn't. All of that information gives us some ability to project what he will be. I made my projection above. You probably understood my point but took it too literally. I think for anyone to claim to "know" what Josh's NFL career trajectory will look like at this point is pure folly. The guy has 27 starts and was as raw as cookie dough coming to the NFL. In a couple of years I believe people are going to look back at what they thought today and say, "wow."
Shaw66 Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, eball said: You probably understood my point but took it too literally. I think for anyone to claim to "know" what Josh's NFL career trajectory will look like at this point is pure folly. The guy has 27 starts and was as raw as cookie dough coming to the NFL. In a couple of years I believe people are going to look back at what they thought today and say, "wow." Actually, I wasn't sure. That's what I thought but wasn't sure. I figured it was worth saying in any case. Of course, I seem to think almost anything is worth saying.
Figster Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 On 6/1/2020 at 12:54 PM, Chandler#81 said: A good watch. Thanks for posting. With the entire OL returning, a SUPER WR, another promising rookie RB added and another year with Motor, Brown & Beasley, there’s absolutely no reason to ‘try to do it all’. Every one of them are ‘backyard superstars’ in their own right. Mesh it together in Daboll’s third season as OC and one can see the reasons the Bills are early picks to take the Division this season, brutal schedule notwithstanding. This said, I hope not all of the ‘I’m gonna DO THIS’ leaves his game. It’s actually a thrilling positive. Save it for game winning drives, playoffs, and If all goes well,, The Superbowl... 2
Mark Vader Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 On 6/1/2020 at 5:50 AM, IgotBILLStopay said: Thanks for posting the link. Pretty long - so needed some patience to listen to the whole thing:) Maybe it is me, but I got the feeling Josh Allen would not be the QB he is today without the opportunity to lead that ragtag 2017 Wyoming team to become respectable. After listening, I was reminded of an old saying I heard first in middle school (I had to look it up - found it was a Buddhist saying): "The lotus is the most beautiful flower, whose petals open one by one. But it will only grow in the mud. In order to grow and gain wisdom, first you must have the mud --- the obstacles of life and its suffering. ... The mud speaks of the common ground that humans share, no matter what our stations in life." On 6/1/2020 at 5:52 AM, CarolinaBillsFan said: I like that quote. I prefer Max Klinger's version....."Remember, to grow a beautiful rose, sometimes you gotta shovel a lot of manure." 1 1
GaryPinC Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 4 hours ago, eball said: What strikes me as odd is how many people think they "know" what Josh is and what he isn't. News flash: you don't. Some people are just dysfunctional beyond statistics, and also enjoy condemning people to them. Early in LeBron's career people said he couldn't shoot the 3. He went to work in the off-seasons and maybe it's not central to his game, but he most definitely can shoot the 3. Josh has the same competitiveness, which some enjoy discounting/ignoring. He'll strengthen his weaknesses at least enough to be a successful NFL QB and probably more.
CorkScrewHill Posted June 2, 2020 Author Posted June 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Shaw66 said: You're right, and I'll go beyond that. Josh Allen is going to eliminate his weaknesses. Listening to this coach, listening to McBeane talk about why they drafted him, it's clear to me that Allen is a learning machine. He wants to keep learning how to win. That's the point the coach makes about Josh learning to dial back his desired to do everything himself. He's learning that's not the way to win. He's learning how far to dial it back, and when to turn it up a notch. This notion that he's a learning machine is what makes me expect him eventually to play with great discipline, like Brady. Josh is learning, game after game, what things maximize the chances of winning, and he's incorporating those things into his game. In another couple of years we're going to be looking at a guy with one of the great arms in the history of game who has learned to eliminate his mistakes. INTs will be low, fumbles will be low, completion percentage will be high, and he will be one of the most dangerous weapons in the NFL. Believe it. It's coming. That's who Allen is. He's over the hump already, and he isn't close to being finished learning. Excellent point. In 2018 he could not hit the short and intermediate stuff. he worked on it and he was good in the short game and great in the intermediate. He threw only 10 TDs and 12 ints in 2018. In 2019 in the first 5 games he had thrown 7 interceptions .. he only threw 2 interceptions the remaining 11 games .. (that is remarkable). To the person who said his running is decent .. I think you should really look at the games again .. he destroys people with his legs. Is he there .. nope. Could he fail ... yes. Do I expect him to be a top 5 QB in a few years .. absolutely.
Mikie2times Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) Loved the interview, love Josh. I hope he can learn. A takeaway I had from this which might not be popular is a concern that he can't actually change. He sounds VERY self aware, which I love, without that you don't even have the ability to change, but at some point the change actually has to occur. If I make a mistake and can articulate what it is and why I made it but I keep repeating the mistake....... that's my fear from this interview. I'm not talking about accuracy either more "hero ball" as we saw at the end of the Houston game. His OC was very clear Josh has had multiple opportunities at Wyoming to learn to not play "hero ball". That over the course of the 2017 season, it was basically an entire crash course on the topic. He displayed a look in talking about the Houston game, disappointment/frustration would be the best word to describe the look. Like "Damn it Josh, when are you going to learn". Then he want onto to say Josh spoke with Wyoming QB's on zoom some time after the game, openly talking about the Houston game and acknowledging his mistakes. Ok, so Josh is aware not to play "hero ball" but he was also aware of it prior to the Houston game. It's the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game. Do you trust now is the time he actually learned his lesson? I hope so. Edited June 2, 2020 by KzooMike
Bob in STL Posted June 3, 2020 Posted June 3, 2020 9 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Well, in some ways we know exactly what he is. We just don't know what he will become. What do I mean? Well, unlike most of us, Josh actually has a job that can be evaluate with numbers. We have Josh's numbers, so we know what he was in 2018 and we know what he was in 2019. Some people seem to think that what we saw in 2019 is what he will be. Others agree that Josh is likely to improve. There's a lot of debate about how much he can be expected to improve. We also know some other things about Josh. We've heard a lot of people talk about some of his characteristic. So we know who he is as a leader, for example. We know who he is in terms of work ethic. We know who he is in terms of competitiveness. We know, to some extent, who he is in terms of natural intelligence. We know all of those things, so that means in some sense we actually do know who he is and who he isn't. All of that information gives us some ability to project what he will be. I made my projection above. Everything is results oriented Now. Back in the 60’s and 70’s a QB could play his peak years later in his career ...like 8-10 years, catch on with the right team and be a top QB. For todays QBs it is more like a 3-5 year trail period.
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