RocCityRoller Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Chauvin belongs in jail for murder, manslaughter at the least. The other three officers who were complicit also deserve negligent manslaughter convictions. The initial protests were necessary for forcing the DA to arrest Chauvin and charge him. That is Democracy in action, and is right. IMO the biggest issue in the USA revolving around the police is the inability or silence of good police officers to call out bad police behavior. This will only happen when the climate and mechanisms around a local government changes. The last I checked the Mayor of a city and the City Council are responsible for the oversight of its Police Department. It is said that 'insanity Is doing the same thing over and over again' and expecting different results. Minneapolis has a history of poor behavior by it's police department. It's nothing new. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/us/minneapolis-police.html Every time something bad happens there are rallies, vigils and calls for change, but at election time those in charge are not held accountable. I decided to look up a list of the Mayors of Minneapolis. I see a trend. 41 Albert Hofstede January 1, 1974 December 31, 1975 Democratic Farmer Labor 42 Charles Stenvig January 1, 1976 December 31, 1977 Independent 43 Albert Hofstede January 1, 1978 December 31, 1979 Democratic Farmer Labor 44 Donald M. Fraser January 1, 1980 December 31, 1993 Democratic Farmer Labor 45 Sharon Sayles Belton January 1, 1994 December 31, 2001 Democratic Farmer Labor 46 R. T. Rybak January 1, 2002 December 31, 2013 Democratic Farmer Labor 47 Betsy Hodges January 1, 2014 January 2, 2018 Democratic Farmer Labor 48 Jacob Frey January 2, 2018 Democratic Farmer Labor The City Council elected November 7, 2017, and assumed office on January 2, 2018, is composed of: Ward Name Neighborhoods Party 1 Kevin Reich Audubon Park, Columbia Park, Como, Holland, Logan Park, Marshall Terrace, Northeast Park, Waite Park, Windom Park. DFL 2 Cam Gordon Cedar-Riverside, Como, Cooper, Longfellow, Prospect Park, Seward, University Green 3 Steve Fletcher Beltrami, Bottineau, Downtown East, Downtown West, Marcy Holmes, Nicollet Island/East Bank, North Loop, St. Anthony East, St. Anthony West, Sheridan DFL 4 Phillipe Cunningham Cleveland, Folwell, Jordan, Lind-Bohanon, Shingle Creek, Victory, Webber-Camden DFL 5 Jeremiah Ellison Harrison, Hawthorne, Jordan, Near North, North Loop, Sumner-Glenwood, Willard-Hay DFL 6 Abdi Warsame Cedar-Riverside, Elliot Park, Phillips West, Seward, Stevens Square, Ventura Village DFL 7 Lisa Goodman Bryn Mawr, Cedar-Isles-Dean, Downtown West, East Isles, Elliot Park, Kenwood, Loring Park, Lowry Hill, Stevens Square DFL 8 Andrea Jenkins Bancroft, Bryant, Central, Field, King Field, Lyndale, Northrop, Regina DFL 9 Alondra Cano Central, Corcoran, East Phillips, Longfellow, Midtown Phillips, Powderhorn Park DFL 10 Lisa Bender Carag, East Calhoun, East Harriet, Lowry Hill East, Whittier DFL 11 Jeremy Schroeder Diamond Lake, Hale, Keewaydin, Northrop, Page, Tangletown, Wenonah, Windom DFL 12 Andrew Johnson Ericsson, Hiawatha, Howe, Keewaydin, Minnehaha, Morris Park, Standish DFL 13 Linea Palmisano Armatage, East Harriet, Fulton, Kenny, Linden Hills, Lynnhurst, West Calhoun DFL If anyone can point to a Republican majority in Minneapolis any time in the last 40 years let me know. 40 years of Democrat rule, now all of a sudden Minneapolis is a Federal issue? Maybe, just maybe, the good people of Minneapolis may want to vote for real change in their government to impose a change on how the Minneapolis Police conduct their business. Government officials will have 0 chance of changing anything in the local government culture if they do not fear being elected out of office, or their party losing power. IMO George Floyd's death, and the repeated injustices perpetrated by the Minneapolis Police force is the result of a super-majority not fearing repercussions for action, or in this case gross inaction. Until there is a change in the voting booth, I fear there will be more George Floyds, and more misplaced anger. This is a nationwide phenomena. Policy starts at the local level. If you don't like it, you must vote against it. A super-majority will never change its ways until it fears losing power. Edited June 1, 2020 by RocCityRoller 2
3rdnlng Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: Chauvin belongs in jail for murder, manslaughter at the least. The other three officers who were complicit also deserve negligent manslaughter convictions. The initial protests were necessary for forcing the DA to arrest Chauvin and charge him. That is Democracy in action, and is right. IMO the biggest issue in the USA revolving around the police is the inability or silence of good police officers to call out bad police behavior. This will only happen when the climate and mechanisms around a local government changes. The last I checked the Mayor of a city and the City Council are responsible for the oversight of its Police Department. It is said that 'insanity Is doing the same thing over and over again' and expecting different results. Minneapolis has a history of poor behavior by it's police department. It's nothing new. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/us/minneapolis-police.html Every time something bad happens there are rallies, vigils and calls for change, but at election time those in charge are not held accountable. I decided to look up a list of the Mayors of Minneapolis. I see a trend. 41 Albert Hofstede January 1, 1974 December 31, 1975 Democratic Farmer Labor 42 Charles Stenvig January 1, 1976 December 31, 1977 Independent 43 Albert Hofstede January 1, 1978 December 31, 1979 Democratic Farmer Labor 44 Donald M. Fraser January 1, 1980 December 31, 1993 Democratic Farmer Labor 45 Sharon Sayles Belton January 1, 1994 December 31, 2001 Democratic Farmer Labor 46 R. T. Rybak January 1, 2002 December 31, 2013 Democratic Farmer Labor 47 Betsy Hodges January 1, 2014 January 2, 2018 Democratic Farmer Labor 48 Jacob Frey January 2, 2018 Democratic Farmer Labor The City Council elected November 7, 2017, and assumed office on January 2, 2018, is composed of: Ward Name Neighborhoods Party 1 Kevin Reich Audubon Park, Columbia Park, Como, Holland, Logan Park, Marshall Terrace, Northeast Park, Waite Park, Windom Park. DFL 2 Cam Gordon Cedar-Riverside, Como, Cooper, Longfellow, Prospect Park, Seward, University Green 3 Steve Fletcher Beltrami, Bottineau, Downtown East, Downtown West, Marcy Holmes, Nicollet Island/East Bank, North Loop, St. Anthony East, St. Anthony West, Sheridan DFL 4 Phillipe Cunningham Cleveland, Folwell, Jordan, Lind-Bohanon, Shingle Creek, Victory, Webber-Camden DFL 5 Jeremiah Ellison Harrison, Hawthorne, Jordan, Near North, North Loop, Sumner-Glenwood, Willard-Hay DFL 6 Abdi Warsame Cedar-Riverside, Elliot Park, Phillips West, Seward, Stevens Square, Ventura Village DFL 7 Lisa Goodman Bryn Mawr, Cedar-Isles-Dean, Downtown West, East Isles, Elliot Park, Kenwood, Loring Park, Lowry Hill, Stevens Square DFL 8 Andrea Jenkins Bancroft, Bryant, Central, Field, King Field, Lyndale, Northrop, Regina DFL 9 Alondra Cano Central, Corcoran, East Phillips, Longfellow, Midtown Phillips, Powderhorn Park DFL 10 Lisa Bender Carag, East Calhoun, East Harriet, Lowry Hill East, Whittier DFL 11 Jeremy Schroeder Diamond Lake, Hale, Keewaydin, Northrop, Page, Tangletown, Wenonah, Windom DFL 12 Andrew Johnson Ericsson, Hiawatha, Howe, Keewaydin, Minnehaha, Morris Park, Standish DFL 13 Linea Palmisano Armatage, East Harriet, Fulton, Kenny, Linden Hills, Lynnhurst, West Calhoun DFL If anyone can point to a Republican majority in Minneapolis any time in the last 40 years let me know. 40 years of Democrat rule, now all of a sudden Minneapolis is a Federal issue? Maybe, just maybe, the good people of Minneapolis may want to vote for real change in their government to impose a change on how the Minneapolis Police conduct their business. Government officials will have 0 chance of changing anything in the local government culture if they do not fear being elected out of office, or their party losing power. IMO George Floyd's death, and the repeated injustices perpetrated by the Minneapolis Police force is the result of a super-majority not fearing repercussions for action, or in this case gross inaction. Until there is a change in the voting booth, I fear there will be more George Floyds, and more misplaced anger. This is a nationwide phenomena. Policy starts at the local level. If you don't like it, you must vote against it. A super-majority will never change its ways until it fears losing power. Oddly enough Chauvin, who has had 17 written complaints about him over the 19 years he's been a cop, might get somewhat of a pass on this latest offense. I understand that the preliminary autopsy shows no sign of asphyxiation. The whole knee on the neck angle may lose its teeth in court.
Doc Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Oddly enough Chauvin, who has had 17 written complaints about him over the 19 years he's been a cop, might get somewhat of a pass on this latest offense. I understand that the preliminary autopsy shows no sign of asphyxiation. The whole knee on the neck angle may lose its teeth in court. He won't get off. Just because he didn't strangle him (and he didn't because Floyd could still talk) it doesn't mean his actions didn't significantly contribute to his death. And continuing to kneel on his neck for 3 minutes after he went pulseless? In any case, no jury will acquit him. No one is on his side and the country will burn even worse than it is now if he is. 1
RocCityRoller Posted June 1, 2020 Author Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Oddly enough Chauvin, who has had 17 written complaints about him over the 19 years he's been a cop, might get somewhat of a pass on this latest offense. I understand that the preliminary autopsy shows no sign of asphyxiation. The whole knee on the neck angle may lose its teeth in court. My point is if the Democrats in power are the social justice loving individuals they virtue signal to be, why would a Democrat super-majority still have him on the force in the first place? Edited June 1, 2020 by RocCityRoller
Doc Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: My point is if the Democrats in power are the social justice loving individuals they virtue signal to be, why would a Democrat super-majority still have him on the force in the first place? Police union? 3
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 9 hours ago, Doc said: Police union? We have a winner. Unions are built to protect shitbirds and lazy people. 2
Reality Check Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 9 hours ago, RocCityRoller said: My point is if the Democrats in power are the social justice loving individuals they virtue signal to be, why would a Democrat super-majority still have him on the force in the first place? They exist to create problems, not solve them. They don't want justice. They want power while producing nothing of value. Also, the nation wide agenda of leftists is to provide the narrative that local police are the problem, and that only a nationalized law enforcement institution is the answer. Local cops get to be public examples of "right winger racists with guns" while the police union managing and skimming and laundering the police benefit packages seized from taxpayers is fully complicit and helping to fund the political campaigns.
SectionC3 Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: Oddly enough Chauvin, who has had 17 written complaints about him over the 19 years he's been a cop, might get somewhat of a pass on this latest offense. I understand that the preliminary autopsy shows no sign of asphyxiation. The whole knee on the neck angle may lose its teeth in court. No physical sign of asphyxiation. Doesn’t mean that asphyxiation wasn’t a contributing factor to his death. But you’re right to note the oddity in the report. 10 hours ago, Doc said: He won't get off. Just because he didn't strangle him (and he didn't because Floyd could still talk) it doesn't mean his actions didn't significantly contribute to his death. And continuing to kneel on his neck for 3 minutes after he went pulseless? In any case, no jury will acquit him. No one is on his side and the country will burn even worse than it is now if he is. He’s got a real problem on manslaughter. Depraved indifference murder could be a trickier deal. Assuming nothing weird happens on causation (like a toxicology report indicating the Floyd ODed), depraved indifference might not be a slam dunk. It’s a hard crime to prove in NYS. that said, I would have charged him with deprived indifference murder here too. This is the type of incident to which that law should apply. Edited June 1, 2020 by SectionC3
Reality Check Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: No physical sign of asphyxiation. Doesn’t mean that asphyxiation wasn’t a contributing factor to his death. But you’re right to note the oddity in the report. Your propaganda is getting weaker by the day. The coming months will be spectacular. Please, don't stop...
SectionC3 Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Reality Check said: Your propaganda is getting weaker by the day. The coming months will be spectacular. Please, don't stop... Hoax.
Reality Check Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 1 minute ago, SectionC3 said: Hoax. Are you a member of "Friends of Democracy" too? You should be proud of your true ideological foundation. Too early to de-cloak?
SoCal Deek Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 Let me preface this by saying it’s SARCASM .....but let’s see if they give Mr Floyd a posthumous Covid test so they can also give their state wide pandemic numbers a boost. 2
Doc Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 5 hours ago, SectionC3 said: No physical sign of asphyxiation. Doesn’t mean that asphyxiation wasn’t a contributing factor to his death. But you’re right to note the oddity in the report. He’s got a real problem on manslaughter. Depraved indifference murder could be a trickier deal. Assuming nothing weird happens on causation (like a toxicology report indicating the Floyd ODed), depraved indifference might not be a slam dunk. It’s a hard crime to prove in NYS. that said, I would have charged him with deprived indifference murder here too. This is the type of incident to which that law should apply. I think that depraved indifference is a slam dunk. He was still kneeling on his neck for 2-1/2 minutes after they checked and he was pulseless. 1
SectionC3 Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Doc said: I think that depraved indifference is a slam dunk. He was still kneeling on his neck for 2-1/2 minutes after they checked and he was pulseless. You'd think, but at least in NYS it's very, very difficult to prove. Normally not applied in one-on-one situations. All that said, I see this as a depraved indifference case based what we currently know. I would have charged it the same as did the prosecutor.
Doc Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 19 hours ago, SectionC3 said: You'd think, but at least in NYS it's very, very difficult to prove. Normally not applied in one-on-one situations. All that said, I see this as a depraved indifference case based what we currently know. I would have charged it the same as did the prosecutor. It wouldn't be hard at all to prove depraved indifference knowing for a fact that he still kept his knee on Floyd's neck after he was pulseless. That is the very definition of it. 2
SectionC3 Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Doc said: It wouldn't be hard at all to prove depraved indifference knowing for a fact that he still kept his knee on Floyd's neck after he was pulseless. That is the very definition of it. It’s probably harder than you think. In NYS depraved indifference murder typically does not apply to one-on-one killings. That culpable mental state might be (and probably is) defined differently in Minnesota. I’m not being funny; you said “the very definition of” the depraved indifference culpable mental state. Do you have the definition of that culpable mental state? I’d like to see it. All of that said, again, I would have charged the case exactly as it was done in Minnesota. I don’t think this is intentional murder, and the depraved indifference charge on top of the manslaughter could allow a jury to compromise but still convict.
Doc Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, SectionC3 said: It’s probably harder than you think. In NYS depraved indifference murder typically does not apply to one-on-one killings. That culpable mental state might be (and probably is) defined differently in Minnesota. I’m not being funny; you said “the very definition of” the depraved indifference culpable mental state. Do you have the definition of that culpable mental state? I’d like to see it. All of that said, again, I would have charged the case exactly as it was done in Minnesota. I don’t think this is intentional murder, and the depraved indifference charge on top of the manslaughter could allow a jury to compromise but still convict. In most cases, sure. In this case it's not. If someone knows that someone else is pulseless, the VERY FIRST AND IMMEDIATE STEP is to get that person medical attention, whether personally or by calling for help. For a PO, it's even more incumbent. He didn't. He just kept on kneeling on his neck. There are rarely more glaring examples of depraved indifference.
SectionC3 Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 Just now, Doc said: In most cases, sure. In this case it's not. If someone knows that someone else is pulseless, the VERY FIRST AND IMMEDIATE STEP is to get that person medical attention, whether personally or by calling for help. For a PO, it's even more incumbent. He didn't. He just kept on kneeling on his neck. There are rarely more glaring examples of depraved indifference. Do you know how many times a conviction of depraved indifference murder was upheld in NYS in a one-on-one setting (like this one)? Once, as of about five years ago. It is not an easy crime to prove and really should be a charge of last resort. Once again, this is an appropriate “last resort” situation because it allows for a charge of murder that might actually stick. To me it’s not the continued use of the knee that makes the case. It’s the point at which the officer knew or should have known the victim did not have a pulse, and the officer’s response to that knowledge (as you noted, the failure to seek or give medical help).
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