Sherlock Holmes Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Is he showing Josh the Davis Webb package? I hope so
Rochesterfan Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Doc said: I've already laid this out for you Limeaid. Again Barkley can be placed on the PS and elevated during game days now. That allows for Fromm to still be developed, but on the active roster, and without potentially losing him when the Bills cut him to try and put him on the PS. 5 hours ago, MJS said: No way he still has practice squad eligibility. With the new rules if you put MB on the PS - he can only be elevated 2 times and returned to the PS. It is not unlimited. That would mean for most game days you are depending on Fromm to be the back-up if Josh gets hurt in game. Are you willing to risk losing games because you have a rookie back-up QB? You may need to think about 3 QBs on the active roster if you do not want Fromm exposed to waivers. It also does not have to be MB - if Davis Webb can be a capable back-up and give you some type of play at another position you could keep him and Fromm with MB to the PS. I just don’t see any way you can make Fromm the sole #2 at this point with everything on the line. Additionally MJS with the new rules - there are spots on the practice squad that can be used independently of eligibility. So theoretically yes -MB can be placed on the PS as of the new CBA.
Lurker Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Interesting tidbit from today's column by Peter King: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/06/01/nfl-power-rankings-fmia-peter-king-2/ "I do not account for the unprecedented offseason. Too many variables, and there’s really no way of knowing how seriously teams are taking the virtual learning. But I did get an interesting view of it from Peyton Manning the other day. I wondered what advice he’d have for players—quarterbacks in particular—in such a lonely offseason. Manning had a good story about his brother, Eli, pertaining to this. “I did a Zoom call with Eli for a buddy, an investment banker,” Peyton Manning said. “It was a Q&A. Someone asked your question—how would you handle this situation as a quarterback? Eli talked about during the NFL lockout—nobody makes any comparisons to what’s going on right now—but, the NFL lockout was somewhat similar in the fact that it was truly a lockdown. Couldn’t talk to the coaches. Couldn’t go into the facilities. Maybe even tougher because you couldn’t have communication with the coaches. Eli talked about organizing their own workouts and taking some ownership. Eli got practice scripts, like blitz walk-through drawings, diagrams, he got practice jerseys, he organized workouts at a high school. He was kind of the head coach/coordinator and they were doing full routes and doing 7 on 7 and blitzes at practice. He was really thorough. “Sure enough, they were in the Super Bowl that year. They beat the Patriots. “So I’ve done a few Zoom calls. I did the Buffalo Bills quarterback room meeting. Did the Los Angeles Rams full team meeting. Did the Bears quarterbacks. That was kinda my message, sort of, you know, follow Eli’s lead. Quarterbacks, take ownership. All these Zoom meetings, right now, the coaches are leading them. My message was to the quarterbacks. ‘Hey, organize your own Zoom meetings without the coaches, just get you and the tight ends, you and the receivers.’ It’s actually an opportunity to even have better communication. Because there’s nothing else to do, right?..." Edited June 1, 2020 by Lurker 2
MJS Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: Additionally MJS with the new rules - there are spots on the practice squad that can be used independently of eligibility. So theoretically yes -MB can be placed on the PS as of the new CBA. So you're saying you could stash Frank Gore on the practice squad? Tom Brady? They changed the eligibility rules?
Kirby Jackson Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, MJS said: So you're saying you could stash Frank Gore on the practice squad? Tom Brady? They changed the eligibility rules? I think (but am not sure) that the answer is yes. With that being said they are subject to the same waiver rules as other PS players. So Brady could go to the PS but obviously someone would claim him first.
Rochesterfan Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, MJS said: So you're saying you could stash Frank Gore on the practice squad? Tom Brady? They changed the eligibility rules? That is my understanding - they still have to clear waivers, but you have multiple spots (2) I believe with the new PS agreement that are for any players you want. It will be interesting to see how they are used by teams.
MJS Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: That is my understanding - they still have to clear waivers, but you have multiple spots (2) I believe with the new PS agreement that are for any players you want. It will be interesting to see how they are used by teams. I thought you don't go through waivers if you have been in the league for awhile. You just become a free agent. Also, I believe players can choose whether or not to allow a team to sign them off the practice squad. They could choose to stay if they want. Edited June 1, 2020 by MJS
Rochesterfan Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, MJS said: I thought you don't go through waivers if you have been in the league for awhile. You just become a free agent. Also, I believe players can choose whether or not to allow a team to sign them off the practice squad. They could choose to stay if they want. What are you exactly arguing here? It is a brand new rule - no one outside those with the full rules provided is quite sure how it will work, but the assumption is that just like every player put on the PS initially- they would have to be cut/clear waivers. Essentially they become free and then are signed back to the PS. I would assume just like other PS players they would have the choice, but I am not sure exactly what you are looking for - in your examples of Gore/Brady do you think that they are going to be put on the PS and then stay with their teams? It is essentially designed for a veteran QB spot to allow a team to have some additional support. I think it fits a guy like Barkley that might have fewer options, but you want him around in case of injury. What I am not sure of is how the Bills look at the position and do they want to risk not having a veteran QB for in-game injuries. We will see how it goes as this will be the first time they are using this rule. The same applies to allowing PS players to be eligible for 2 regular season games for injury- how does the moving up and back work in regards to waivers?
MJS Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: What are you exactly arguing here? It is a brand new rule - no one outside those with the full rules provided is quite sure how it will work, but the assumption is that just like every player put on the PS initially- they would have to be cut/clear waivers. Essentially they become free and then are signed back to the PS. I would assume just like other PS players they would have the choice, but I am not sure exactly what you are looking for - in your examples of Gore/Brady do you think that they are going to be put on the PS and then stay with their teams? It is essentially designed for a veteran QB spot to allow a team to have some additional support. I think it fits a guy like Barkley that might have fewer options, but you want him around in case of injury. What I am not sure of is how the Bills look at the position and do they want to risk not having a veteran QB for in-game injuries. We will see how it goes as this will be the first time they are using this rule. The same applies to allowing PS players to be eligible for 2 regular season games for injury- how does the moving up and back work in regards to waivers? Who is arguing? I'm trying to understand the rule so I've been asking questions and making clarifications. Is that a problem?
Doc Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 13 hours ago, MJS said: No way he still has practice squad eligibility. They changed the rules this year. Now up to 2 players (and I believe 4 in a couple years) with any number of accrued seasons can be placed on the PS. 7 hours ago, Rochesterfan said: With the new rules if you put MB on the PS - he can only be elevated 2 times and returned to the PS. It is not unlimited. That would mean for most game days you are depending on Fromm to be the back-up if Josh gets hurt in game. Are you willing to risk losing games because you have a rookie back-up QB? You may need to think about 3 QBs on the active roster if you do not want Fromm exposed to waivers. It also does not have to be MB - if Davis Webb can be a capable back-up and give you some type of play at another position you could keep him and Fromm with MB to the PS. I just don’t see any way you can make Fromm the sole #2 at this point with everything on the line. Additionally MJS with the new rules - there are spots on the practice squad that can be used independently of eligibility. So theoretically yes -MB can be placed on the PS as of the new CBA. Again, Barkley is no world-beater. If they need to play someone, I'd rather take a look at the guy who hasn't proven he's a career backup at best. And Barkley can still be on the sidelines on gameday helping-out Josh.
billykay Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 18 hours ago, Limeaid said: Well if you want to compare QBs Davis Webb was a 3rd round QB cut in first year. Fromm needs development time if he is going to succeed and if PS is the best way to get it, being elevated to regular squad occasionally using new rules, Bills ought to consider it. He will not make a difference this year. As I have said a year ago on another post - the league should allow one QB from each team to be untouchable on the Practice Squad. This would allow for an orderly development for a player in one of the most difficult positions to learn.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 45 minutes ago, billykay said: As I have said a year ago on another post - the league should allow one QB from each team to be untouchable on the Practice Squad. This would allow for an orderly development for a player in one of the most difficult positions to learn. NFLPA would never go for that. 1
billykay Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: NFLPA would never go for that. I think that there are now 12 spots on the PS. If there were 13 with that extra position being a QB that couldn't be touched, the NFLPA might agree to it because 32 jobs are being created. 1
Kirby Jackson Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, billykay said: I think that there are now 12 spots on the PS. If there were 13 with that extra position being a QB that couldn't be touched, the NFLPA might agree to it because 32 jobs are being created. That’s fair. I still don’t think it’s likely because you are potentially depriving that player of an opportunity. If you use someone like Nick Mullens a few years ago as an example. Maybe even Gardner Minshew last year? Those feel like the type of guys that potentially could have been in that role. By being given an opportunity they basically secured careers. They may never play as well as they did and may never be long-term starters. Both guys though probably secured careers that will be at least 5+ years because of that. Just my thoughts but your comprise certainly gives the PA something to consider. 1
without a drought Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 The veterans that end up on the practice squad will be more of someone transitioning into coaching, not a hidden star. The old loose salary rules are gone, players on the practice squad are now subject to new pay rules which is fixed at $8,400/week. The exception is players with any number of accrued seasons who are also held to a new set of rules $12,000/week in 2020 and in 2022 it goes to a minimum of $15,400 to a max of $19,900 for this group while all others will receive $11,500/week. Matt Barkley would be taking a 90% pay cut. 1
Doc Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 46 minutes ago, without a drought said: The veterans that end up on the practice squad will be more of someone transitioning into coaching, not a hidden star. The old loose salary rules are gone, players on the practice squad are now subject to new pay rules which is fixed at $8,400/week. The exception is players with any number of accrued seasons who are also held to a new set of rules $12,000/week in 2020 and in 2022 it goes to a minimum of $15,400 to a max of $19,900 for this group while all others will receive $11,500/week. Matt Barkley would be taking a 90% pay cut. I missed that in the article I read. That changes things. I really don't want them to keep 3 QBs on the roster but if Fromm looks worth developing, they might have to.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 On 5/31/2020 at 8:07 AM, Charles Romes said: Barkley’s start was so bad last year there is a chance he will be always be available even if he’s not on the 53. When did Barkley start last year?
BringBackFlutie Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: When did Barkley start last year? Good point. Allen played the first two series in Week 17.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Doc said: I missed that in the article I read. That changes things. I really don't want them to keep 3 QBs on the roster but if Fromm looks worth developing, they might have to. I think Fromm is a lock. Barkley is the one fighting for the roster spot imo. If the Bills think that Fromm is ready for the #2 role (which he might be) Barkley could be gone. I’m on record as Fromm won’t be more than a backup in the NFL. With that being said, one of Fromm’s biggest strengths is his floor. He isn’t some guy that’s going to come into the league and take giant leaps forward. He’s a cerebral, experienced, SEC quarterback. His learning curve is as small as just about any rookie can have. His ceiling just isn’t that high. Edited June 2, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 1
Doc Posted June 2, 2020 Posted June 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I think Fromm is a lock. Barkley is the one fighting for the roster spot imo. If the Bills think that Fromm is ready for the #2 role (which he might be) Barkley could be gone. I’m on record as Fromm won’t be more than a backup in the NFL. With that being said, one of Fromm’a biggest strengths is his floor. He isn’t some guy that’s going to come into the league and take giant leaps forward. He’s a cerebral, experienced, SEC quarterback. His learning curve is as small as just about any rookie can have. His ceiling just isn’t that high. Because of his arm strength? He can probably improve it to the point where it’s not a complete detriment. And if he knows his limitations he can avoid throws that he shouldn’t be making. Fromm is a lock if he looks halfway decent. If not they can cut him and put him on the practice squad with no problem or just move on from him. And if all he ever becomes is a back up quarterback, that’s still not bad for a fifth round pick. And if Webb is as much of a student of the game as they’re saying, I agree that Barkley is probably a goner.
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