Koko78 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: Why didn't they arrest him? The reason I can't answer that is because I wasn't inside their head. Can I speculate? Sure. Maybe their first reaction was "don't touch me...move along or we will arrest you!" Then he got knocked to the ground. Arresting him at that point would have been a very back visual. Regarding the bold. I've always say stupid should hurt. Guess what? It did. Arrest him for what? He had committed no crime. Pushing him out of the way was the only actual option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Arrest him for what? He had committed no crime. Pushing him out of the way was the only actual option. that's very interesting. excellent, thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Arrest him for what? He had committed no crime. Pushing him out of the way was the only actual option. Was it past curfew or not? (Thought this occurred just after, if it happened before, yeah, walking in a public space seems to not cross the legal/illegal threshold.) Even if it were just after curfew would've been surprised to see him arrested for simply what had happened to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Koko78 said: Arrest him for what? He had committed no crime. Pushing him out of the way was the only actual option. Curfew violation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdutton Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 18 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Curfew violation? Failure to obey a lawful order, public disturbance, obstruction of police action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, bdutton said: Failure to obey a lawful order, public disturbance, obstruction of police action. And being stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Chef Jim said: Curfew violation? Can't really arrest someone for that. They could have gave him an appearance ticket, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 On 6/18/2020 at 1:42 PM, billsfan1959 said: The officers are in crowd control formation and moving toward an area. It doesn't matter if they have encountered a crowd yet or not. And, whether there was a crowd at that point or not has no bearing on why they pushed the man. They pushed him because he placed himself in a position to be considered a threat. You might want to watch the video again. Not only did he reach his right hand toward the officer's belt, he did it twice. It doesn't matter if he had a cell phone in his hand or not. If you approach an officer, in any situation, much less this one, and get within 1-2 feet of him and reach your hand toward his belt, regardless of what you have in your hand, you will get the same response. As you should. When in the world did it ever become all right for a person to walk up to within 1-2 feet of an officer and reach toward that officer for any reason? He initiated it. He engaged in actions that resulted in him being pushed back. He stumbled and fell. As I said before, had he not stumbled and fallen and persisted, he would have been arrested as well. And no, officers in that situation do not have the luxury of taking the time to assess whether or not the man poses a real threat or not. Once he placed himself that close to officers and reached his hand in the direction of an officer's belt, he has to be assumed to be a risk. I won't bother to post situations in which police officers have been injured and killed because they didn't assume somebody getting that close to them posed a threat. I somehow don't think it would really matter to you. You are welcome to your opinion. Please, feel free to do so. It does matter to me and I'll discuss honestly. I have never said the officers aren't allowed to respond that way to a perceived threat. I've said in this situation it was unwarranted and unprofessional. While you say the situation doesn't matter, I say it does and police officers responded poorly. At least 2 of them failed to accurately assess the situation. I also definitely dispute Gugino was reaching towards the officer as much as he was motioning across his body, but you are also entitled to your own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 minute ago, GaryPinC said: Please, feel free to do so. It does matter to me and I'll discuss honestly. I have never said the officers aren't allowed to respond that way to a perceived threat. I've said in this situation it was unwarranted and unprofessional. While you say the situation doesn't matter, I say it does and police officers responded poorly. At least 2 of them failed to accurately assess the situation. I also definitely dispute Gugino was reaching towards the officer as much as he was motioning across his body, but you are also entitled to your own opinion. I have stated all of the reasons why I believe the officers acted appropriately. He approached the officers. He was yelling, he got well within a radius that can present a safety risk to an officer, ignored orders to get back, and he did, in fact, reach his right hand toward an officer. It was at that point he was pushed back. I'm sorry he fell as he did and I am sorry for any injuries he may have sustained. However, I stand by my assessment. We can just agree to disagree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Will they release the body cam footage and audio before or after the trial? That is the most important piece of evidence nobody on PPP has seen or heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, GaryPinC said: Please, feel free to do so. It does matter to me and I'll discuss honestly. I have never said the officers aren't allowed to respond that way to a perceived threat. I've said in this situation it was unwarranted and unprofessional. While you say the situation doesn't matter, I say it does and police officers responded poorly. At least 2 of them failed to accurately assess the situation. I also definitely dispute Gugino was reaching towards the officer as much as he was motioning across his body, but you are also entitled to your own opinion. Seriously? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 2 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: Seriously? Such a pity you can't view the video impartially and watch that cell phone waving in his outstretched hand, indicative of motioning toward the steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: Such a pity you can't view the video the contorted way I see it. FIFY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 hours ago, GaryPinC said: Please, feel free to do so. It does matter to me and I'll discuss honestly. I have never said the officers aren't allowed to respond that way to a perceived threat. I've said in this situation it was unwarranted and unprofessional. While you say the situation doesn't matter, I say it does and police officers responded poorly. At least 2 of them failed to accurately assess the situation. I also definitely dispute Gugino was reaching towards the officer as much as he was motioning across his body, but you are also entitled to your own opinion. Jesus. He was "motioning across his body" while thrusting his hand toward the officer's groin, and it's incumbent on the officer to be professional and allow this man to do whatever he wanted? That creepy old guy would be pushed 98 times out of 100, and 75 of those times he would have been shoved substantially harder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiotAct Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 I don’t think 3rdNLng is watching the same video as we are. 0:15-0:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, RiotAct said: I don’t think 3rdNLng is watching the same video as we are. 0:15-0:17 Watching but barely. They only see enough of what they want to see. The funny part is I've experienced these street clearings a few times because there's a yearly festival in a part of Cleveland called Little Italy. It's a tight area and in the past there have been many fights late at night so it now ends at 10 PM and the Cleveland police form a clearing line with search-lighted choppers overhead and mounteds among the officers on foot. They go right down the street and scare hundreds in front of them to leave, while not friendly they will stop and professionally engage people who come up to them, as happened to me when my car was on the other side of them. I've also watched drunks and various jackholes come right up to them and never any shoving, either the person clears out within 30 seconds or they end up in the police van. They have no problem stopping one or two officers while the rest of the line fills in and continues. True professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) ...certainly the individual's prerogative to join in this....but at age 75, considering the volatility of the situation, cops on edge being threatened/challenged, can one's protest be more important than sacrificing personal safety ?......removing cops from the equation for a second, what is a surge or push of protesters knocked him down for not being able to keep up?.....regardless of MY opinions, I'm not putting myself at risk at age 67 for whatever to purported value is in being there.....probably just me............ Edited June 23, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Systemic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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