Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, GregPersons said: Did you not assume "human" was implied by violence in this instance?? You were all excited for a semantics battle????? Holy *****, get a problem! It's a meaningless addition made by a weak mind. Destruction of property = violence. If it does not, we no longer live in a land of laws. The fact that you support this notion, without any understanding of its historical origin, shows the board how deeply uninformed you are of basic history. Keep going. You're doing an excellent job of exposing yourself as a deeply stupid person. Then again, you're a Marxist -- an ideology that's been thoroughly discredited yet you're clinging to it (unknowingly) like a good useless idiot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 30 minutes ago, Beast said: I can trll you right now that DA overcharged. IF any charge was appropriate it was Assault Third Degree. Again, IF. Yeah I agree. Intent to cause physical injury is part of that charge, right? (I could look it up, but not into doing that two minutes of work now.) I just don’t see it. I suspect assault third is a lesser includes of this assault charge, as might be harassment. Maybe they get torgalski on a lesser as part of a compromise. Charging McCabe with assault second based on what I’ve seen is ... odd. I like John Flynn A LOT. But this is not right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SectionC3 said: Yeah I agree. Intent to cause physical injury is part of that charge, right? (I could look it up, but not into doing that two minutes of work now.) I just don’t see it. I suspect assault third is a lesser includes of this assault charge, as might be harassment. Maybe they get torgalski on a lesser as part of a compromise. Charging McCabe with assault second based on what I’ve seen is ... odd. I like John Flynn A LOT. But this is not right. Correct. The only subdivision under Felony Assault that is not with intent is to recklessly cause serious physical injury with a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument. The dangerous instrument, which I suspect they were charged under, is a STRETCH of epic proportions. He was pushed back with a riot stick, which is what they are made for. If this is truly a crime, lets say the old man didn't fall. Would those officers have been charged? Of course not! Would the DA have charged them with attempted Assault 2nd Degree? Of course not! And, lets be honest, I watched that and my stomach turned because it was a 75 year old man. Taking emotions out of it, would we be having this conversation if the man was in his 30's, 40's or even 50's? I think we can all say no. The age of the man is the reasonn we are here, as well as what happened in Minneapolis. Nowhere in the statutes that covers this is age a reason to charge. Only if intent can be shown and I'm pretty damned sure we can all agree gbere was no intent to injure. The man got pushed back, lost his balance, and hit his head. He made the concsious decision to approach those officers and impede them from moving forward. It's not like the officer took his riot stick and clubbed the man over the head with it. I suspect these officers will be indicted and then beat any and all charges at trial. Edited June 6, 2020 by Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Beast said: Correct. The only subdivision under Felony Assault that is not with intent is to recklessly cause serious physical injury with a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument. The dangerous instrument, which I suspect they were charged under, is a STRETCH of epic proportions. He was pushed back with a riot stick, which is what they are made for. If this is truly a crime, lets say yhe okd man didn't fall. Would thise officers have been charged? Of course not! Would ghe DA have charged them with attempted Assault 2nd Degree? Of course not! And, lets be honest, I watched that and my stomach turned because it was a 75 year old man. Taking emotions out of it, would we be having this conversation if the man was in his 30's, 40's or even 50's? I think we can all say no. The man got pushed back, lost his balance, and hit his head. He made the concsious decision to approach those officers and impede them from moving forward. It's not like the officer took his riot stick and clubbed the man over the head with it. I suspect these officers will be indicted and then beat any and all charges at trial. My best guess (without seeing the accusatory instruments) is that the "dangerous instrument" is the sidewalk. I've seen Assault 2nd charged that way before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, GregPersons said: Did you not assume "human" was implied by violence in this instance?? You were all excited for a semantics battle????? Holy *****, get a problem! What is your solution to black on black violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Koko78 said: My best guess (without seeing the accusatory instruments) is that the "dangerous instrument" is the sidewalk. I've seen Assault 2nd charged that way before. That's also a wicked stretch. I mean, they didn't recklessly use the sidewalk to injure him. Edited June 6, 2020 by Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 https://www.zerohedge.com/political/buffalo-cops-who-shoved-elderly-protester-charged-felony-assault-mayor-calls-man-agitator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 19 hours ago, Chef Jim said: No. You don't talk to him and tell him to move on. This isn't some drunk guy approaching them in the beer tent at the county fair Cops are getting pelted with rocks, bottles, bricks and shot at. And keeping the line moving is all they SHOULD be caring about. That is their job at this point. I've never done this so I can't speak for them regarding the tension these guys felt and feel these days and I highly suggest you don't either. And that is common sense. They were clearing the square of some, as you referred to him as, jackhole. Except they weren't getting pelted by anything in this situation, they weren't under that kind of stress at all. Stop imagining the worst case scenario and use some common sense that fits the situation. In a different situation, simply pushing the guy out of the way would be more acceptable. I think most of America would rather have those policemen who care about more than just blindly and over-aggressively following orders. This isn't some drunk guy approaching, it's an old man who is not being threatening to police, just a bit of a self absorbed jackhole. This is the kind of police crap that needs to get dialed down. Either arrest him or work with him a bit to get him to move on. Unfortunate you cannot see that, most others can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) A elderly harmless man , just go around him Focus on looters and rioters instead of peaceful demonstrators Edited June 6, 2020 by ALF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Koko78 said: My best guess (without seeing the accusatory instruments) is that the "dangerous instrument" is the sidewalk. I've seen Assault 2nd charged that way before. I don’t think there’s a dangerous instrument issue here. I suspect this is the “elder assault” statue, which I think requires internet to cause physical injury and incorporates the age criteria. If McCabe was charged this way, it’s a joke. Torgalski is a reach on this one bc if the intent issue. Maybe they get torgalski on assault 3 or harassment. But assault 2 is reachy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 35 minutes ago, ALF said: A elderly harmless man , just go around him Focus on looters and rioters instead of peaceful demonstrators It’s okay Alf. Just think of it as a botched 257th trimester abortion. It is after all New York State where that sort of thing is celebrated with colorful floodlights on the Empire State Building. The old douche will be getting a big fat payday from the city eventually, and taxpayers won’t even notice a blip in their tax bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I don't see any intent to harm by either officer . It looked like the supervisor behind one officer pushed him into the man to move him back. You just don't treat elderly like someone younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 59 minutes ago, GaryPinC said: Except they weren't getting pelted by anything in this situation, they weren't under that kind of stress at all. Stop imagining the worst case scenario and use some common sense that fits the situation. In a different situation, simply pushing the guy out of the way would be more acceptable. I think most of America would rather have those policemen who care about more than just blindly and over-aggressively following orders. This isn't some drunk guy approaching, it's an old man who is not being threatening to police, just a bit of a self absorbed jackhole. This is the kind of police crap that needs to get dialed down. Either arrest him or work with him a bit to get him to move on. Unfortunate you cannot see that, most others can. Ahhhh so you were monitoring their stress levels. You ARE clairvoyant. Cool. 7 minutes ago, ALF said: I don't see any intent to harm by either officer . It looked like the supervisor behind one officer pushed him into the man to move him back. You just don't treat elderly like someone younger. Why not? 50 minutes ago, ALF said: A elderly harmless man , just go around him Focus on looters and rioters instead of peaceful demonstrators At what age does harmlessness set in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Koko78 said: My best guess (without seeing the accusatory instruments) is that the "dangerous instrument" is the sidewalk. I've seen Assault 2nd charged that way before. Koko...just went for a walk and was thinking about what you said. I definitely could see that being charged if they were on top of him and banged his head of the concrete. I just can’t see how it could be applied to the facts as we know them. But nothing would surprise me anymore. Thank God for a court of Appeals and case law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: At what age does harmlessness set in? Anyone peaceful any age leave them alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, ALF said: Anyone peaceful any age leave them alone What determines peaceful intent if not age? And I'm not saying age does BTW Edited June 6, 2020 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, ALF said: A elderly harmless man , just go around him Focus on looters and rioters instead of peaceful demonstrators While I generally agree with you, think about the last 10 days. These "peaceful protests" turned to rioting and looting PDQ. These were riot police clearing out downtown. Do not approach! There is a curfew, go home. As for the elderly being harmless ... until they are not. That is where the audio may come in handy. "harmless" 93 year old. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Joe Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 47 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: While I generally agree with you, think about the last 10 days. These "peaceful protests" turned to rioting and looting PDQ. These were riot police clearing out downtown. Do not approach! There is a curfew, go home. As for the elderly being harmless ... until they are not. That is where the audio may come in handy. "harmless" 93 year old. Good find, I remember this one. Talk him down, amirite? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, ALF said: A elderly harmless man , just go around him Focus on looters and rioters instead of peaceful demonstrators Yes, Go around him and have your back to him. Smart tactics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Nanker said: It’s okay Alf. Just think of it as a botched 257th trimester abortion. It is after all New York State where that sort of thing is celebrated with colorful floodlights on the Empire State Building. The old douche will be getting a big fat payday from the city eventually, and taxpayers won’t even notice a blip in their tax bill. Why is he a douche? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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