Buffalo_Gal Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GregPersons said: I've watched it. And I agree with you to a point. I just can't agree that it was his fault, or that he was asking for it. I understand he was disobeying. It doesn't make it okay. He didn't stumble on his own. He was pushed. We need to remember that the law can be wrong; orders can be wrong. These are not written by God. These are man-made decisions. And when -- the next day -- almost 60 Buffalo cops then decide to strike, to spite the (very minor!) punishment placed on the officers -- and then defend their actions with literal Nazi quotes... I know people want to say Nazi comparisons are way out of bounds. But they ***** said "We're just following orders." Buffalo Gal, that is the exact defense used by Nazis in the Nuremberg Trials. Here's a harder pill to swallow. We have more in common with Nazi Germany than we'd ever care to admit. Am I wrong? Sure, they're totally different, right? Nothing alike. I mean Nazi Germany happened in a different longitude & latitude, the minorities being persecuted were different, the specifics on the arrests and imprisonments and executions were different, it was a different year, and it's all in black & white photos. It couldn't possibly be us. So what do we have in common? Only that both the US and Nazi Germany have systemically, to numbers unseen before or elsewhere in the world, imprisoned and executed minority populations with state-sanctioned legal lawful orders. I know you're going to want to dismiss this!! But just take a minute with it and imagine a history 100 years from now. Imagine if the police could be rebooted into a less destructive and far more peaceful enterprise. Imagine the future looking back on this time, the way maybe we look back on slavery or public lynchings, and think "how did they ever stand for this?" Nazi Germany: un-arm the people, media propaganda, sow seeds of social disorder, control the churches, ... yeah, sounds like something the radical left might embrace. And since this conversation has devolved into something that has nothing to do with this thread, you have a nice day. ? Edited June 6, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Nazi Germany: un-arm the people, media propaganda, sew seeds of social disorder, control the churches, ... yeah, sounds like something the radical left might embrace. And since this conversation has devolved into something that has nothing to do with this thread, you have a nice day. ? No problem, just one quick question before you go (this is all entirely on topic for the protests in Buffalo btw). Agree/disagree — America systemically imprisons/executes minorities with state violence? Feel free to ask me to provide examples! Edited June 6, 2020 by GregPersons
Buffalo_Gal Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, GregPersons said: No problem, just one quick question before you go (this is all entirely on topic for the protests in Buffalo btw). Agree/disagree — America systemically imprisons/executes minorities with state violence? Feel free to ask me to provide examples! While I do not have a criminal justice background, I will tell you one of my son's master's degrees is in criminal justice. I had to proof read all his papers. In that short time I read more about "justice" in our criminal system than I ever thought I would. There is no doubt there are issues and problems - for minorities and whites. Ask any 20 year old male - regardless of color - how often he's been pulled over by the police or had an encounter with a police officer. Now some of that is "young men do stupid things" and some of that is the numbers show that young men do stupid things. Is there a systematic imprisonment and systematic execution of minorities by the government. No. That would be a conspiracy theory to end all conspiracy theories. Here is the definition of the word systematic just so you are clear about what you are alleging. Are there reasons that minorities end up in state prisons (sorry, I have to use wiki or list 50 states, which I will not do) more than than federal prisons where the majority are whites? Yes, and that has to to with crimes committed. Plea deals vs trials also account for some disparities, and that would be something you would have to dive into with attorney representation and prosecutors.Trump's first step act has helped minorities incarcerated for unequal offenses (like crack (minority drug) drawing a higher sentence than cocaine (white drug)).
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: While I do not have a criminal justice background, I will tell you one of my son's master's degrees is in criminal justice. I had to proof read all his papers. In that short time I read more about "justice" in our criminal system than I ever thought I would. There is no doubt there are issues and problems - for minorities and whites. Ask any 20 year old male - regardless of color - how often he's been pulled over by the police or had an encounter with a police officer. Now some of that is "young men do stupid things" and some of that is the numbers show that young men do stupid things. Is there a systematic imprisonment and systematic execution of minorities by the government. No. That would be a conspiracy theory to end all conspiracy theories. Here is the definition of the word systematic just so you are clear about what you are alleging. Are there reasons that minorities end up in state prisons (sorry, I have to use wiki or list 50 states, which I will not do) more than than federal prisons where the majority are whites? Yes, and that has to to with crimes committed. Plea deals vs trials also account for some disparities, and that would be something you would have to dive into with attorney representation and prosecutors.Trump's first step act has helped minorities incarcerated for unequal offenses (like crack (minority drug) drawing a higher sentence than cocaine (white drug)). It's not a conspiracy theory. Systemic or systematic's definition — Done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical. Three major obvious examples of the state systemically imprisoning minorities: Slavery. For-Profit Prisons. ICE Detention Camps. Three major obvious examples of the state systemically executing minorities: Slavery. Officer-Involved Shooting. For-Profit Prisons. The school-to-prison pipeline is a death sentence given to Black children because of underfunded schools and services in favor of absurd police budgets. This is for Los Angeles budget, but this is largely true for most cities. The police, like the military in the federal budget, take more money than any other program/s combined. Garcetti promised a cut. What a joke.
Reality Check Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, GregPersons said: It's not a conspiracy theory. Systemic or systematic's definition — Done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical. Three major obvious examples of the state systemically imprisoning minorities: Slavery. For-Profit Prisons. ICE Detention Camps. Three major obvious examples of the state systemically executing minorities: Slavery. Officer-Involved Shooting. For-Profit Prisons. The school-to-prison pipeline is a death sentence given to Black children because of underfunded schools and services in favor of absurd police budgets. This is for Los Angeles budget, but this is largely true for most cities. The police, like the military in the federal budget, take more money than any other program/s combined. Garcetti promised a cut. What a joke. Why are so many black people being killed by black people?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Reality Check said: Why are so many black people being killed by black people? ...I'm going to float an unsubstantiated guess and it is NOT just applicable to black on black murders.....I think somewhere there is street supremacy and/or turf wars in play....a toddler murdered in Chicago as retribution for a mano a mano squabble?....can it get any lower?....bottom line is with some no matter of race, creed or ethnicity, depraved indifference to human life exists daily.......WORLDWIDE I may add..............
Warren Zevon Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Wacka said: If they got their asses out of there by 8 PM, fine. If they had a permit, fine. Otherwise, the cops have every right to use force ro clear the lawbreakers out. I personally demonstrated for Bush after the 2000 election in downtown San Francisco. The group I was with got a permit which outlined the route we wanted to take. We had the police escort us ( which in SF was for our safety). An anti-fur demonstrator (happened to nr the dome day in Union Square) spit on an elderly member of our group (had him arrested) snf daw numerous fingers (thank you, Bush is #1), When we were done we gave the cops three cheers. Where was this high horse when right wingers were breaking the law with their protests a few weeks ago during the pandemic?
B-Man Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: Where was this high horse when right wingers were breaking the law with their protests a few weeks ago during the pandemic? They weren't. Guns were allowed on the state capital building and it was a peaceful protest. But you knew that. 1
Unforgiven Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, GregPersons said: I've watched it. And I agree with you to a point. I just can't agree that it was his fault, or that he was asking for it. I understand he was disobeying. It doesn't make it okay. He didn't stumble on his own. He was pushed. We need to remember that the law can be wrong; orders can be wrong. These are not written by God. These are man-made decisions. And when -- the next day -- almost 60 Buffalo cops then decide to strike, to spite the (very minor!) punishment placed on the officers -- and then defend their actions with literal Nazi quotes... I know people want to say Nazi comparisons are way out of bounds. But they ***** said "We're just following orders." Buffalo Gal, that is the exact defense used by Nazis in the Nuremberg Trials. Here's a harder pill to swallow. We have more in common with Nazi Germany than we'd ever care to admit. Am I wrong? Sure, they're totally different, right? Nothing alike. I mean Nazi Germany happened in a different longitude & latitude, the minorities being persecuted were different, the specifics on the arrests and imprisonments and executions were different, it was a different year, and it's all in black & white photos. It couldn't possibly be us. So what do we have in common? Only that both the US and Nazi Germany have systemically, to numbers unseen before or elsewhere in the world, imprisoned and executed minority populations with state-sanctioned legal lawful orders. I know you're going to want to dismiss this!! But just take a minute with it and imagine a history 100 years from now. Imagine if the police could be rebooted into a less destructive and far more peaceful enterprise. Imagine the future looking back on this time, the way maybe we look back on slavery or public lynchings, and think "how did they ever stand for this?" I disagree completely with this. The liberals are trying to make 'whites' the villains that have economically, and racially ruined the country and other peoples lives. This is exactly the early propaganda used against the Jewish population. 1
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, Unforgiven said: I disagree completely with this. The liberals are trying to make 'whites' the villains that have economically, and racially ruined the country and other peoples lives. This is exactly the early propaganda used against the Jewish population. Who invented slavery? Who invented for profit prisons? Who invented ICE? Who invented Slave Catcher patrols? Are you aware how this impacted modern policing in the US? White people need to nut up and take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their peoples' actions.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 ...justice served...it takes time.....so now Parsnips or whoever the hell he is can untangle his racial nylons?..... Prosecutors: 2 Buffalo police officers charged with assault WHECTVUpdated: June 06, 2020 11:51 AM Created: June 06, 2020 11:43 AM BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) - Two Buffalo police officers were charged with assault Saturday, prosecutors said after a video showed them shoving a protester in recent demonstrations over the death of George Floyd in Minnesota. Both pleaded not guilty to second-degree assault. They were released without bail. The officers had been suspended without pay Friday after a TV crew captured the confrontation the night before near the end of protests. The footage shows a man identified as Martin Gugino approaching a line of helmeted officers holding batons as they clear demonstrators from Niagara Square around the time of an 8 p.m. curfew. https://www.whec.com/news/prosecutors-2-buffalo-police-officers-charged-with-assault/5752722/?cat=565
Warren Zevon Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 20 minutes ago, B-Man said: They weren't. Guns were allowed on the state capital building and it was a peaceful protest. But you knew that. They were. Wacka is mad peaceful protestors disobeyed curfew. The peaceful protestors spitting and screaming in the face of cops in Michigan disobeyed by not wearing a mask or social distancing.
Beast Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...justice served...it takes time.....so now Parsnips or whoever the hell he is can untangle his racial nylons?..... Prosecutors: 2 Buffalo police officers charged with assault WHECTVUpdated: June 06, 2020 11:51 AM Created: June 06, 2020 11:43 AM BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) - Two Buffalo police officers were charged with assault Saturday, prosecutors said after a video showed them shoving a protester in recent demonstrations over the death of George Floyd in Minnesota. Both pleaded not guilty to second-degree assault. They were released without bail. The officers had been suspended without pay Friday after a TV crew captured the confrontation the night before near the end of protests. The footage shows a man identified as Martin Gugino approaching a line of helmeted officers holding batons as they clear demonstrators from Niagara Square around the time of an 8 p.m. curfew. https://www.whec.com/news/prosecutors-2-buffalo-police-officers-charged-with-assault/5752722/?cat=565 I can trll you right now that DA overcharged. IF any charge was appropriate it was Assault Third Degree. Again, IF.
B-Man Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, GregPersons said: Who invented slavery? White people need to nut up and take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for their peoples' actions. And..................you have exposed yourself. Claiming that whites "invented" slavery.......................is a statement devoid of any knowledge or understanding. I do not block any posters, no matter what poor level of posts they have, but I certainly don't need to pay attention to the constant repetition of your biases . 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Beast said: I can trll you right now that DA overcharged. IF any charge was appropriate it was Assault Third Degree. Again, IF. ...possible......I do know from WC cases in NYS that insurance companies fear cases being brought in Buffalo versus elsewhere...they will tell you they fear the liberal nature of the Buffalo courts.....and they fear for Celino & Barnes cases for the same reasons.....so the District Appeals Court is a consideration unless it goes to the NYS level.... Edited June 6, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy
Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 hours ago, GregPersons said: Why is it unreasonable to expect police officers to behave peacefully? Says the guy who claimed earlier property damage does not = violence Gtfoh
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: Says the guy who claimed earlier property damage does not = violence Gtfoh Go ahead and make the argument that property damage is the same as human violence. Let's hear it. Tell me that store windows have the same value as human life. You complete ***** stain.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, GregPersons said: Go ahead and make the argument that property damage is the same as human violence. Oh, look at that. Intellectual dishonesty 101. Add a new word to the equation to try to run away from his original point. 1 minute ago, GregPersons said: Tell me that store windows have the same value as human life. You complete ***** stain. If you don't think property destruction is violence, why don't you give the board your license plate number and let us all go to town on your car at the next Bills game?
GregPersons Posted June 6, 2020 Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Oh, look at that. Intellectual dishonesty 101. Add a new word to the equation to try to run away from his original point. If you don't think property destruction is violence, why don't you give the board your license plate number and let us all go to town on your car at the next Bills game? Did you not assume "human" was implied by violence in this instance?? You were all excited for a semantics battle????? Holy *****, get a problem!
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