NewEra Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 32 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: They are getting 2 guys back and drafted 2 WR (Juan Jennings is a hidden gem) and another TE. So I was wrong--it's 5, "not 3". 49ers no longer have "stupid money", so where will they get "Kittle deal" money?. Again (and again)--it's not what I think that matters: they didn't re-sign Sanders because they had these guys coming back and were going to draft a WR on day 1. Shanahan seems confident that all these guys are massive candidates to get more targets. Go yell at him how he's wrong if thinks so. That D rolled through the playoffs until they choked with 6 minutes to go in the season. Lol. That’s like saying Isaiah Hodgins is going to take touches away from Stephon Diggs. Just stop
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 hours ago, billsfan89 said: The 49ers were up against the cap, that’s why they didn’t resign Sanders. Of course they are going to say hey we like what we have and not we are kind of ***** due to the cap. If they were so confident in Taylor and Hurd they wouldn’t have drafted a receiver in round 1 esp in a deep receiver class. I don't buy that two players coming off of IR who weren't productive to begin with are suddenly taking away massive targets from Kittle. That's coach speak you aren't seeing through. As for the defense yes they did rebound in the playoffs but I am projecting regression at least modestly. I still think they will be a top 10 defense just not a top 3 defense. One simply due to the loss of Bucker and two due to other players either aging or not having top seasons again. Their defense had a lot of factors go right for them in 2019 and in 2020 I suspect some players will regress due to age or other factors and the loss of Bucker will hurt. If the defense regresses a little bit they will be passing more overall. 2 hours ago, NewEra said: Lol. That’s like saying Isaiah Hodgins is going to take touches away from Stephon Diggs. Just stop ok so both of you are set that he won’t have one less target this season than last year. we shall see I guess
NewEra Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: ok so both of you are set that he won’t have one less target this season than last year. we shall see I guess lol. Do you reread your posts? I don’t think that Trent Taylor and Jalen Hurd will make Kittle any less valuable to the Niners than he already is. That’s what I’M saying. 1
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, NewEra said: lol. Do you reread your posts? I don’t think that Trent Taylor and Jalen Hurd will make Kittle any less valuable to the Niners than he already is. That’s what I’M saying. Did you read mine? Taylor+Hurd+Aiyuk+Deebo+Bourne+.............. Taylor and Hurd typically lined up in the slot.
billsfan89 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: ok so both of you are set that he won’t have one less target this season than last year. we shall see I guess I think Kittle easily retains 90% of his targets at a minimum if he is healthy as a floor and I would say could increase his targets by as much as 15% if the Niners defense regresses and keep in mind he missed 2 games last year and still eclipsed 1,000 yards so I think even with a 10% drop in targets he will still if healthy get 1000 yards. As NewEra said Trent Taylor and Jalen Hurd aren’t going to be that much more of a target drain than their third and fourth receivers had last season. Could a breakout from either player hurt Kittle’s targets? I guess but you would have to also hope that in addition to one of those players breaking out you would also have to hope that Aiyuk also has a season as good as Sanders last season or better which for a rookie WR is a tall order. You would also have to hope that the Niners defense and rushing attack remains at the top of the league. As I said the defense lost one of its best players and has some older players at critical positions and they did have some struggles towards the last 7 games of the season. So yes if two unproven players coming off of IR have good seasons, a rookie WR has a better season than Emmanuel Sanders did last year, the 49ers rushing attack and defense remains among the best in the league than Kittle’s targets might go down significantly. That’s literally everything having to fall one way.
Mr. WEO Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I think Kittle easily retains 90% of his targets at a minimum if he is healthy as a floor and I would say could increase his targets by as much as 15% if the Niners defense regresses and keep in mind he missed 2 games last year and still eclipsed 1,000 yards so I think even with a 10% drop in targets he will still if healthy get 1000 yards. As NewEra said Trent Taylor and Jalen Hurd aren’t going to be that much more of a target drain than their third and fourth receivers had last season. Could a breakout from either player hurt Kittle’s targets? I guess but you would have to also hope that in addition to one of those players breaking out you would also have to hope that Aiyuk also has a season as good as Sanders last season or better which for a rookie WR is a tall order. You would also have to hope that the Niners defense and rushing attack remains at the top of the league. As I said the defense lost one of its best players and has some older players at critical positions and they did have some struggles towards the last 7 games of the season. So yes if two unproven players coming off of IR have good seasons, a rookie WR has a better season than Emmanuel Sanders did last year, the 49ers rushing attack and defense remains among the best in the league than Kittle’s targets might go down significantly. That’s literally everything having to fall one way. WITH a much improved D and with Jimmy G, Kittle’s targets per game dropped just by adding Sanders and Deebo. The D lost one of its best players. So the drafted his replacement with their first pick
NewEra Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Did you read mine? Taylor+Hurd+Aiyuk+Deebo+Bourne+.............. Taylor and Hurd typically lined up in the slot. Yup. Deebo and Bourne were there. Aiyuk is replacing sanders who is now gone. Add Taylor and Hurd. +2. kittle is still the man.
billsfan89 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: WITH a much improved D and with Jimmy G, Kittle’s targets per game dropped just by adding Sanders and Deebo. The D lost one of its best players. So the drafted his replacement with their first pick The defense can't be that much better in 2020 (and there is no guarantee that the drafted player will be as good as Bucker who was an All-Pro) so there is only likely to be regression. Secondly we are talking about Kittle's targets going down from 2019 levels (a year when the team had 2 quality WR's, the same QB, an elite defense and rushing attack, not much more could deflate your targets) and for that to happen the defense and rushing attack would have to be at or near the top of the league again, the receiver drafted in round 1 would have to replace or exceed Sanders production and the unproven WR's who are both coming off of IR are going to have production levels that are high. Literally everything that could happen would have to happen in one direction for Kittle's targets to go down significantly. You aren't presenting that as a possible scenario but a likely one. Yes if every possible negative circumstance goes against a player their production might dip, but what is the likelihood of all those things going against him? Even if one factor falls the other way his targets shouldn't be highly impacted.
NewEra Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: The defense can't be that much better in 2020 (and there is no guarantee that the drafted player will be as good as Bucker who was an All-Pro) so there is only likely to be regression. Secondly we are talking about Kittle's targets going down from 2019 levels (a year when the team had 2 quality WR's, the same QB, an elite defense and rushing attack, not much more could deflate your targets) and for that to happen the defense and rushing attack would have to be at or near the top of the league again, the receiver drafted in round 1 would have to replace or exceed Sanders production and the unproven WR's who are both coming off of IR are going to have production levels that are high. Literally everything that could happen would have to happen in one direction for Kittle's targets to go down significantly. You aren't presenting that as a possible scenario but a likely one. Yes if every possible negative circumstance goes against a player their production might dip, but what is the likelihood of all those things going against him? Even if one factor falls the other way his targets shouldn't be highly impacted. Save your finger presses.
Mr. WEO Posted June 5, 2020 Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan89 said: The defense can't be that much better in 2020 (and there is no guarantee that the drafted player will be as good as Bucker who was an All-Pro) so there is only likely to be regression. Secondly we are talking about Kittle's targets going down from 2019 levels (a year when the team had 2 quality WR's, the same QB, an elite defense and rushing attack, not much more could deflate your targets) and for that to happen the defense and rushing attack would have to be at or near the top of the league again, the receiver drafted in round 1 would have to replace or exceed Sanders production and the unproven WR's who are both coming off of IR are going to have production levels that are high. Literally everything that could happen would have to happen in one direction for Kittle's targets to go down significantly. You aren't presenting that as a possible scenario but a likely one. Yes if every possible negative circumstance goes against a player their production might dip, but what is the likelihood of all those things going against him? Even if one factor falls the other way his targets shouldn't be highly impacted. 47 minutes ago, NewEra said: Save your finger presses. you two! 1
Billl Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) On 5/31/2020 at 6:00 PM, Mr. WEO said: Hooper is getting 10.5. Why would SF pay him 50% more than top dollar?? Who are they bidding against? No one. On 5/31/2020 at 6:34 PM, Mr. WEO said: lol I hardly have to--they can make any demand they want. They can ask for 15 millions a year.....and then get handed the franchise tender. And again the next year. Or he can hold out and make nothing for as long as he likes. Guess Darren Waller best be calling Kittle's agent too? On 6/1/2020 at 7:49 PM, Mr. WEO said: As I said.... None of what you say adds up to an unprecedented NFL position bump of 50% in a year...that's not "a decent pay raise" anywhere, doc. Heard a rumor from someone who has had excellent toon in the past that he’s about to sign a 6 year $95m deal with about half of that guaranteed. Evidently Kittle is casting some doubt on that rumor via Twitter, though. Edited August 12, 2020 by Billl
MJS Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 9:59 AM, SC BIlls Fan said: Most NFL Players make more in a season than a lot of people make in 10-15 yrs. And, that's considering a 600-900k salary for an average player. When a player making 4 or 5 mil a year starts crying I need to feed my family and asks to be paid more millions it really irritates me. How many millions do you actually need? I know most players dedicate their life from a young age to play football but damn. Many like myself served in the military for over 20 yrs. Guess how much we get in retirement. Not complaining. I feel the NFL should put a cap on salaries or have some kind of structure that pays by position on a scale. Lets say WR rookie, average. good, very good, great, pro bowler. etc. Just my 2 cents. Any Joe Schmo can do those jobs. The military will literally take any knucklehead out of high school. Doesn't mean those jobs aren't hard or worthwhile, they are. But finding people to do them isn't difficult. Only a few people on the planet can do what NFL players can do. Their skillet is rare. And we as consumers give them our money to do what they do. We demand that they get paid as much as they do. I don't like it when they say "I need to feed my family" because yeah, they make enough money for that, but these players do deserve to get paid what the market sets for them, and that is millions and millions of dollars. 1
Doc Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, Billl said: Heard a rumor from someone who has had excellent toon in the past that he’s about to sign a 6 year $95m deal with about half of that guaranteed. Evidently Kittle is casting some doubt on that rumor via Twitter, though. 3 minutes ago, aristocrat said: He ain’t taking less than 100 mil Yeah, probably looking for more.
White Linen Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, MJS said: Any Joe Schmo can do those jobs. The military will literally take any knucklehead out of high school. Doesn't mean those jobs aren't hard or worthwhile, they are. But finding people to do them isn't difficult. Only a few people on the planet can do what NFL players can do. Their skillet is rare. And we as consumers give them our money to do what they do. We demand that they get paid as much as they do. I don't like it when they say "I need to feed my family" because yeah, they make enough money for that, but these players do deserve to get paid what the market sets for them, and that is millions and millions of dollars. Maybe just about anyone can join the military but I don't think that's comparing apples. It takes elite mental and physical skills to be at the highest divisions of the military. Few people on the planet can make it to The 10th Mountain Division for example.
Saxum Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 1 hour ago, MJS said: I don't like it when they say "I need to feed my family" because yeah, they make enough money for that, but these players do deserve to get paid what the market sets for them, and that is millions and millions of dollars. I do not see why you object to them feeding them their families imported caviar, truffles, rack of lamb, etc. They are special!
Sherlock Holmes Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) I'd swing a deal for Kittle and Bosa Let Trent Taylor get those targets instead! Edited August 13, 2020 by Sherlock Holmes
Billl Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Limeaid said: I do not see why you object to them feeding them their families imported caviar, truffles, rack of lamb, etc. They are special! Why do people have a problem with athletes being overpaid? They bring us SO much entertainment while abusing their bodies. These are people who often grew up poor and are now trying to bring their entire families out of the cycle of poverty. Their money makes a difference for a generation. The alternative is that the owners add a rounding error level increase to their net worth. Even if the player just wants to blow the money on hookers and blow, then score one for the little guy who gets to enjoy 1% of what billionaires have.
billsfan89 Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 Kittle has supposedly signed a deal that pays him just under 16 million aav. About what I thought he would get (I said 16.25 or 7.25% of the cap, just a hair under that.) I think he took a bit of a hair cut due to the uncertainty of the cap and the fact that he wants the big deal now. Had he waited to test the market (which would have been a bad move) it would have probably pushed him to 17 million aav. But take the big money now, the TE market has finally been set after all these years.
Locomark Posted August 13, 2020 Posted August 13, 2020 It Kittle doesn’t get at least 14-15.5 million he should walk. The TE market has barely changed it’s high end price tag over the last decade while receivers have skyrocketed. He is clearly the best TE on the planet. I don’t even view Kelce as able to hold his jock strap in terms of overall game. Kittle Is also special because he makes game changing plays. Every game comes down to 4-5 key big plays. Kittle is going to give you 2 of those a game and that is worth the $ because it’s worth a few W’s each year.
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