Kittle looking for a "Kittle Deal"

[Alphadawg7]

Ok...I have a question to those in this thread.  Why do we have a 10 page thread on an NFC teams contract negotiants with their TE?  I dont ask that in a pompous way, but I dont want to read 10 pages of debate of the value of someone else's TE either.  So whats the reason?  Is there speculation that he is available...that Bills could be interested?  I mean I dont get the length of discussion of some random teams contract with a TE.  So is there more to this, or did this particular convo just run long for some other reason?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Bench Jimmy G to get Kittle's numbers back up?  Naw.  Again 1,200 yards is an excellent season for a WR, never mind a TE.  To win a SB though...

 

Obviously the team will want to pay him as little as possible.  That's neither here nor there.  Kittle has sorely out-performed his rookie deal and he and his agent are well aware that the salary cap will go down for the 2021 season and want to strike while the iron is hot(test).  They realize that the 49'ers have little in the way of receiving options outside of a bunch of unproven guys so they actually have a lot of leverage.

 

Doc, we all understand what his agent wants to do--it's not in debate, nor is the fact that a guy under his rookie contract is outplaying it.  That happens multiple times every single season.

 

I don't understand why a looming cap dive would make it more attractive for the 49ers to give this guy a massive boost over the current max.  Common sense is telling you this will make his agent's task infinitely harder and takes leverage away.  That team will be far less inclined to make that deal now.  They would be crazy to.

 

They would surely like to sign him.  But for that money---they will wait to see what happens with a full roster of receivers, and what the budget is after this season.  I bet you Shanahan is far more excited about his roster going into this year than he was last year.  

 

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Ok...I have a question to those in this thread.  Why do we have a 10 page thread on an NFC teams contract negotiants with their TE?  I dont ask that in a pompous way, but I dont want to read 10 pages of debate of the value of someone else's TE either.  So whats the reason?  Is there speculation that he is available...that Bills could be interested?  I mean I dont get the length of discussion of some random teams contract with a TE.  So is there more to this, or did this particular convo just run long for some other reason?

 

There were already 5 threads on Josh Allen's odds of being MVP, so.....

[Chicken Boo]

23 hours ago, NewEra said:

Of course he was.  He had Alex Smith, Andy reid and zero WRs to take targets away from him.  
 

kittle has the most receiving yards ever for a TE after 3 years.  He had Mullens and beathard throwing him the ball 2 years ago. Hoyer, beathard and jiimmy g(for 5 games) 3 years ago. 

 

he blocks as well as any TE not named Kittle.  
 

agree to disagree. I’ll take Kittle every day of the week

 

Yes, but his production hasn't dropped off even with the plethora of talent in KC currently.

 

Nothing else going on in the sports world.  I enjoy these debates.

[Nextmanup]

Every team in the league should be desperately trying to find a Kittle for their team.

 

There is enough athletic talent in this country to support it, I think.

 

Big, strong, tall guys who can run and catch.

 

It creates an immediate mismatch all over the field and was Brady's secret weapon for years with Gronk.

 

No reason to keep it a secret.

 

Kittle is worth a huge payment IMO, and he's in a key spot.

 

Would much rather pay him big money than a DL for example, even a sack specialist.

 

The TE has way more value.

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

42 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Doc, we all understand what his agent wants to do--it's not in debate, nor is the fact that a guy under his rookie contract is outplaying it.  That happens multiple times every single season.

 

I don't understand why a looming cap dive would make it more attractive for the 49ers to give this guy a massive boost over the current max.  Common sense is telling you this will make his agent's task infinitely harder and takes leverage away.  That team will be far less inclined to make that deal now.  They would be crazy to.

 

They would surely like to sign him.  But for that money---they will wait to see what happens with a full roster of receivers, and what the budget is after this season.  I bet you Shanahan is far more excited about his roster going into this year than he was last year. 

 

WEO, we all understand the team doesn't want to pay him-it's not in debate.  That happens multiple times every single season.

 

And they can use whatever reason they want (what other TEs got, future cap, harmonic convergence) but that matters not to Kittle and his agent.  So they either come to an agreement on a number that's acceptable to Kittle or he probably threatens to sit out.  If the team wants to make the SB again, they probably cave because that offense without him would be a disaster.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

WEO, we all understand the team doesn't want to pay him-it's not in debate.  That happens multiple times every single season.

 

And they can use whatever reason they want (what other TEs got, future cap, harmonic convergence) but that matters not to Kittle and his agent.  So they either come to an agreement on a number that's acceptable to Kittle or he probably threatens to sit out.  If the team wants to make the SB again, they probably cave because that offense without him would be a disaster.

 

 

i'm confident they are not convinced that is true---a "disaster"? lol

 

If they don't resign him before this season starts, we will know their thinking for certain.

[Chicken Boo]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

If the team wants to make the SB again, they probably cave because that offense without him would be a disaster.

 

That offense strolled through the playoffs and to the Super Bowl with Kittle on blocking duties, mostly.  

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

That offense strolled through the playoffs and to the Super Bowl with Kittle on blocking duties, mostly.  

 

Yeah.  Jimmy G had a total of 208 yards passing in both playoff games while the team ran for over 400 yards.  Might have been a smart idea to use Kittle more in the passing game in the SB.

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Ok...I have a question to those in this thread.  Why do we have a 10 page thread on an NFC teams contract negotiants with their TE?  I dont ask that in a pompous way, but I dont want to read 10 pages of debate of the value of someone else's TE either.  So whats the reason?  Is there speculation that he is available...that Bills could be interested?  I mean I dont get the length of discussion of some random teams contract with a TE.  So is there more to this, or did this particular convo just run long for some other reason?

 

The TE market is a bit of an outlier unlike most positions which have had elite players test the market in the last 2-3 seasons, the elite players at the position have had contracts locked in before they were elite players (Ertz and Kelce signed deals after the 2015 season when they were up and coming players and not quite elite at the position) or they are still on rookie or lower end deals (Kittle and possibly Waller out of Vegas if he has another good season.) The last TE with two 1,000 yard seasons to negotiate a new contract was Jimmy Graham who did so in the 2015 off-season. 

 

So the market at TE is very deflated since there hasn't been an elite talent at the position to test the market. If Kittle puts in another good season he will be the first elite TE to test the market in a long time and it is going to massively alter the market at the position. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah.  Jimmy G had a total of 208 yards passing in both playoff games while the team ran for over 400 yards.  Might have been a smart idea to use Kittle more in the passing game in the SB.

 

The 49ers had a double digit lead with just over 6 min left in the game, doc.  That D caved for 21 unanswered points. 

 

Kittle got 7 targets that game (about his season avg)--most in his "playoff career".  They rolled over Minny with his 5 targets.   In the NFCC game he had a single pass tossed his way---yet they still blew out the Packers.  A real "disaster" that offense without Kittle in the passing game, huh?

 

Maybe they threw to Kittle too much in the SB.....

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

The 49ers had a double digit lead with just over 6 min left in the game, doc.  That D caved for 21 unanswered points. 

 

Kittle got 7 targets that game (about his season avg)--most in his "playoff career".  They rolled over Minny with his 5 targets.   In the NFCC game he had a single pass tossed his way---yet they still blew out the Packers.  A real "disaster" that offense without Kittle in the passing game, huh?

 

Maybe they threw to Kittle too much in the SB.....

 

Maybe the 49'ers should dump Jimmy G and his bloated contract, let Kittle play-out his contract (and eventually walk) and just run the ball every play?  You seem to think that would work.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Doc

[Mr. WEO]

52 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Maybe the 49'ers should dump Jimmy G and his bloated contract, let Kittle play-out his contract (and eventually walk) and just run the ball every play?  You seem to think that would work.

 

lol...maybe!

 

But seriously, Their Offense was fine with the run first mentality.  But with all these receivers coming in, Shanahan is likely licking his chops at opening it up.   Doesn't hurt that Kittle and his agent can obviously see the flood of cheap young talent on the roster this season.  The reason they brought Sanders on is because of the hole at WR.  The reason they let him go after 8 games is because of his cost and the other guys are coming back.  If the 49ers were as worried as you are about a bunch of "unproven guys", the never would have let Sanders go--he only had a 2 year deal.

 

Kittle wasn't a significant factor in the playoffs--yet still they were rolling threw until the final 6.5 minutes of the final game.  More passes to Kittle wan't the answer, obviously.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Ok...I have a question to those in this thread.  Why do we have a 10 page thread on an NFC teams contract negotiants with their TE?  I dont ask that in a pompous way, but I dont want to read 10 pages of debate of the value of someone else's TE either.  So whats the reason?  Is there speculation that he is available...that Bills could be interested?  I mean I dont get the length of discussion of some random teams contract with a TE.  So is there more to this, or did this particular convo just run long for some other reason?

Lol.  I don’t understand this post.  
 

you should know by now that you don’t have to click on the link.  It’s a topic that has generated 10 pages.  If you don’t want to read it, don’t.  If you’re taking a dump and have nothing better to do, read and chime in

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

Yes, but his production hasn't dropped off even with the plethora of talent in KC currently.

 

Nothing else going on in the sports world.  I enjoy these debates.

No one is saying Kelce isn’t great.  He’s the 2nd best TE in the league imo.  Some think he’s the best, I get it.  
 

He’s on the best offense in football with the best QBs, one of the best playcallers and great compliments all over the field.  He’s one of the best playmakers on the team.  Why would his production decline?  Just because there are more mouths to feed doesn’t mean each guy gets less production.  It means that the offense is I’ll have more success and more opportunities, meaning more touches for all the weapons.  It all evens out in the end imo

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

i'm confident they are not convinced that is true---a "disaster"? lol

 

If they don't resign him before this season starts, we will know their thinking for certain.

A disaster?  No.  Good enough to win the super bowl?  Or even make the super bowl?  I’d bet against it.  The window is open for them.  Lynch is trying to build loyalty.  Kittle is a great face of the franchise, even if he’s not the face.  He’s just awesome.  I want him in my locker room.  

[Alphadawg7]

23 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Lol.  I don’t understand this post.  
 

you should know by now that you don’t have to click on the link.  It’s a topic that has generated 10 pages.  If you don’t want to read it, don’t.  If you’re taking a dump and have nothing better to do, read and chime in

 

You took my post wrong.  Allen for Prescott is only 11 pages.  So it was unusual a post about another player in the NFC, no rival to Bills, no application to Bills in anyway, no controversy, went to 10+ pages.  So I was asking, did it just carry on for some other reason, or were the Bills somehow tied into this convo.  Like is there rumors Kittle is available and we could make a play.  

 

I didn't want to read 10 pages of contract talk if that was all it was, and was just simply asking if there was Bills connection to this topic for it to reach a longer length than it would typically do if no Bills connection or controversy attached.  

 

I was not mocking this thread at all, so sorry if it seemed that way.  Was just trying to find out if there was something I should dive into buried inside this thread that would interest me.

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

You took my post wrong.  Allen for Prescott is only 11 pages.  So it was unusual a post about another player in the NFC, no rival to Bills, no application to Bills in anyway, no controversy, went to 10+ pages.  So I was asking, did it just carry on for some other reason, or were the Bills somehow tied into this convo.  Like is there rumors Kittle is available and we could make a play.  

 

I didn't want to read 10 pages of contract talk if that was all it was, and was just simply asking if there was Bills connection to this topic for it to reach a longer length than it would typically do if no Bills connection or controversy attached.  

 

I was not mocking this thread at all, so sorry if it seemed that way.  Was just trying to find out if there was something I should dive into buried inside this thread that would interest me.

Ok. I hear ya.  
 

bad comparison though....Dak for Allen is just nonsense

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ok. I hear ya.  
 

bad comparison though....Dak for Allen is just nonsense

 

Just meant, its at least Bills related and it only got to 11.  So was unusual to see a non controversial, non bills player, no bills rival have a thread get to 10 pages. Felt like a 3 page topic, so thought maybe there was some kind of speculation worth exploring that might have been the catalyst.  If it was just about Kittle and his contract, wasn't really something I was interested in combing 10 pages for was all.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Just meant, its at least Bills related and it only got to 11.  So was unusual to see a non controversial, non bills player, no bills rival have a thread get to 10 pages. Felt like a 3 page topic, so thought maybe there was some kind of speculation worth exploring that might have been the catalyst.  If it was just about Kittle and his contract, wasn't really something I was interested in combing 10 pages for was all.

I know.  I was just being sarcastic 

[Doc]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

lol...maybe!

 

But seriously, Their Offense was fine with the run first mentality.  But with all these receivers coming in, Shanahan is likely licking his chops at opening it up.   Doesn't hurt that Kittle and his agent can obviously see the flood of cheap young talent on the roster this season.  The reason they brought Sanders on is because of the hole at WR.  The reason they let him go after 8 games is because of his cost and the other guys are coming back.  If the 49ers were as worried as you are about a bunch of "unproven guys", the never would have let Sanders go--he only had a 2 year deal.

 

Kittle wasn't a significant factor in the playoffs--yet still they were rolling threw until the final 6.5 minutes of the final game.  More passes to Kittle wan't the answer, obviously.

 

The 49'ers didn't have to throw much in the playoff games because they limited the Vikings to 10 points total, and the Packers to 7 points through 3 quarters while scoring 37, mostly thanks to the ground game.  No need to risk throwing the ball.  The SB was a different story.  Again I remember distinctly that on 2 separate drives during that fateful 6.5 minute stretch that Kittle was wide open for big gainers and JG didn't look his way.  Could very well have been the difference in the outcome. 

 

In any case, thinking they can run the ball and get back to the SB isn't a sound game plan.  Hence the reason they drafted a WR in the 1st round.  And after all, they did get 75 yards/game from Kittle during the regular season so what happened in the playoffs obviously doesn't tell the whole story.

 

What's more interesting is your complaints about the Bills not prioritizing the TE position...and then slagging a great TE like Kittle.  Which is it?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

No one is saying Kelce isn’t great.  He’s the 2nd best TE in the league imo.  Some think he’s the best, I get it.  
 

He’s on the best offense in football with the best QBs, one of the best playcallers and great compliments all over the field.  He’s one of the best playmakers on the team.  Why would his production decline?  Just because there are more mouths to feed doesn’t mean each guy gets less production.  It means that the offense is I’ll have more success and more opportunities, meaning more touches for all the weapons.  It all evens out in the end imo

A disaster?  No.  Good enough to win the super bowl?  Or even make the super bowl?  I’d bet against it.  The window is open for them.  Lynch is trying to build loyalty.  Kittle is a great face of the franchise, even if he’s not the face.  He’s just awesome.  I want him in my locker room.  

 

 

I agree with this 100%. Imagine him in Buffalo?!  Instead we're all hoping the best TE on the team can catch more and drop less.

 

I just think that roster in SF is now geared to go heavy on the pass.  Tons of guys.  Kittle won't have the same utility for this team this yer---despite his budding greatness.