Seasons1992 Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 https://www.theringer.com/2020/5/26/21270942/cases-for-against-the-next-generation-of-nfl-qbs-with-kevin-clark "Fast forward" to 55 minutes left. Ryen talks with Kevin Clark about Josh. Good stuff.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) Interesting stuff. Not sure I'll agree with the assertion that we've already seen "who Josh is" and that it won't change. It isn't like he has to re-invent his entire game, just start hitting deep balls, and a few other minor tweaks. The same "incremental improvement" that he then says he expects out of Darnold. So which is it? We'll see. Edited May 28, 2020 by DrDawkinstein 4
Big Turk Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 If Josh can hit the deep ball it immediately opens everything else up that much more for the offense... 1 1
BigBillsFan Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 Great interview and accurate analysis. Honestly I think it could be possible he has a massive jump, but I can't argue where he's wrong either.
eball Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 I'm not even going to waste my time listening to that because if anyone says Josh Allen has already reached what he will be in the NFL then their opinion means nothing to me. There is literally no reason not to expect Allen to continue to improve, based upon what we've already seen. 25 1
Mickey Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 Great, yet another edition of an obscure podcast dudes saying that Josh Allen is a bad QB while dismissing all evidence to the contrary as a series of unexplained anomalies that do not negate their carefully crafted arguments. We have gone from not taking statistics serious enough, blown past a brief period of taking them for what they are worth and rushed in to embracing every single stat an overworked journalist, desperate for new content, can dig up. Even those whose obscurity is rivaled only by their irrelevancy. If I can quote the immortal Heath Barkely from "The Big Valley", "That makes about as much sense as a five legged mule" Sorry, I get crotchety on Thursdays. 4 3 1 2
DrDawkinstein Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, eball said: I'm not even going to waste my time listening to that because if anyone says Josh Allen has already reached what he will be in the NFL then their opinion means nothing to me. There is literally no reason not to expect Allen to continue to improve, based upon what we've already seen. Yeah, the statement that Troy Aikman was the only QB to ever show major improvement in year 3 had me rolling my eyes. Like I said, Josh doesn't need to reinvent himself, just continue to build his game. 7
njbuff Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, the statement that Troy Aikman was the only QB to ever show major improvement in year 3 had me rolling my eyes. Like I said, Josh doesn't need to reinvent himself, just continue to build his game. I guess he never heard of Joe Montana, who did a small little thing like lead his team to the SB title in his third year, for example. Holy moly the so called pundits are braindead. 4
GoBills808 Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yeah, the statement that Troy Aikman was the only QB to ever show major improvement in year 3 had me rolling my eyes. Like I said, Josh doesn't need to reinvent himself, just continue to build his game. It's my firm belief that some analysts/media members don't watch enough Bills games to have an appreciation for the sort of 'work' Allen needs. Like you say he doesn't need a complete overhaul, but incremental steps that are well within the capacity of a solid QB/staff relationship. 4
DrDawkinstein Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: It's my firm belief that some analysts/media members don't watch enough Bills games to have an appreciation for the sort of 'work' Allen needs. Like you say he doesn't need a complete overhaul, but incremental steps that are well within the capacity of a solid QB/staff relationship. Right. They only refer to the Cowboys game and the Titans game. Meaning they only saw the major, nationally broadcasted games. Which also happened to be his best, and one of his worst, all season.
GoBills808 Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 Just now, DrDawkinstein said: Right. They only refer to the Cowboys game and the Titans game. Meaning they only saw the major, nationally broadcasted games. Which also happened to be his best, and one of his worst, all season. That and probably a cursory glance at his stats. Which are (EXCUSES ALERT ExCUSES ALERT) disproportionately informed by his drop rate...which would probably take more time to research than your average talking head has allotted re: Buffalo QBs. Personally I think Allen is going to blow people's minds this year. I mean, even in the Texans game which was far from his finest hour it seemed like Booger and Tessitore couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that he was able to complete passes in a competent manner. And these guys were announcing an actual NFL playoff game! 3
DrDawkinstein Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: That and probably a cursory glance at his stats. Which are (EXCUSES ALERT ExCUSES ALERT) disproportionately informed by his drop rate...which would probably take more time to research than your average talking head has allotted re: Buffalo QBs. Personally I think Allen is going to blow people's minds this year. I mean, even in the Texans game which was far from his finest hour it seemed like Booger and Tessitore couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that he was able to complete passes in a competent manner. And these guys were announcing an actual NFL playoff game! Blowing our minds would be great. But even just making the same amount of improvement he did over the last offseason would pretty much solidify him as a Franchise QB. 4 1
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) Joe Marino devoted Wednesday's show to Josh and two big takeaways I had are these: --Amazing correlation between 2014 Cam Newton (his year 4 and just prior to his MVP year) and 2019 Josh Allen. --2019 JA was a much bigger part of his team's success than 2018 Mitch Trubisky and 2017 Blake Bortles were to theirs. This is for those who are nervous about Josh having a 2020 season like Mitch did in 2019 and Blake did in 2018. There is a nonzero chance it could happen and it would put the progress the Bills have made in the last two years at risk. In this podcast they make the "20 games as a starter we know who they are" statement without pointing out how much better Josh was after game 4 (start 15?) So, this discussion falls into the realm of 2 guys chatting without having done any research. Edited May 29, 2020 by JESSEFEFFER 7
Nihilarian Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, eball said: I'm not even going to waste my time listening to that because if anyone says Josh Allen has already reached what he will be in the NFL then their opinion means nothing to me. There is literally no reason not to expect Allen to continue to improve, based upon what we've already seen. I fully agree! I think about Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield or Josh Rosen who all had a full four seasons in a big time college program to help in their development. Allen basically had only two seasons in a small time college program that has never led to a developed a top NFL QB. Allen spent his first season in the NFL running like crazy behind a bad offensive line. Which is not very conducive to helping develop a pocket QB. Allen still only has 27 starts out of 32, so I expect him to continually improve over the next few years. The upcoming 2020 season looks to be much, much more difficult over the 2019 season in which they had the 8th easiest schedule. The Bills also faced a bunch of podunk QB's along that journey. The 2020 schedule is rated as the 5th hardest. The only good thing about that is that the Patriots have the #1, the Jets #2, the Dolphins #3, the 49ers #4. 1
JESSEFEFFER Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: That and probably a cursory glance at his stats. Which are (EXCUSES ALERT ExCUSES ALERT) disproportionately informed by his drop rate...which would probably take more time to research than your average talking head has allotted re: Buffalo QBs. Personally I think Allen is going to blow people's minds this year. I mean, even in the Texans game which was far from his finest hour it seemed like Booger and Tessitore couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that he was able to complete passes in a competent manner. And these guys were announcing an actual NFL playoff game! Booger blamed Josh for a late throw when JB messed up his sideline footwork and called Cody Ford selfish for the less than forcible bump of a block that got flagged. How much of the narrative on Josh changes if that call isn't made? 2
Prospector Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Seasons1992 said: https://www.theringer.com/2020/5/26/21270942/cases-for-against-the-next-generation-of-nfl-qbs-with-kevin-clark "Fast forward" to 55 minutes left. Ryen talks with Kevin Clark about Josh. Good stuff. Not good stuff 2 3 1
inthebuff Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 This is the article that they were talking about.... https://sports.yahoo.com/bills-josh-allen-jets-sam-darnold-need-breakout-seasons-to-avoid-path-of-mediocrity-210211036.html
Jauronimo Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: I fully agree! I think about Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield or Josh Rosen who all had a full four seasons in a big time college program to help in their development. Allen basically had only two seasons in a small time college program that has never led to a developed a top NFL QB. Allen spent his first season in the NFL running like crazy behind a bad offensive line. Which is not very conducive to helping develop a pocket QB. Allen still only has 27 starts out of 32, so I expect him to continually improve over the next few years. The upcoming 2020 season looks to be much, much more difficult over the 2019 season in which they had the 8th easiest schedule. The Bills also faced a bunch of podunk QB's along that journey. The 2020 schedule is rated as the 5th hardest. The only good thing about that is that the Patriots have the #1, the Jets #2, the Dolphins #3, the 49ers #4. Agreed 100%. He's basically still a rookie. Like Tyrod. 1 4
bigK14094 Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, eball said: I'm not even going to waste my time listening to that because if anyone says Josh Allen has already reached what he will be in the NFL then their opinion means nothing to me. There is literally no reason not to expect Allen to continue to improve, based upon what we've already seen. Yes, he came from Wyoming.....not the SEC and didn't face the strongest competition in college. He has almost 2 seasons under his belt now as a pro...and, imho, is still on the learning curve. His head is right, and I think the stability of the coaching staff and his O line is a big factor. It is also true those folks also will improve this year...Daboll and company, and the O line as well. Adding Diggs and a better 2d running back will also help.( although Gore was a real pro for many games much to my surprise based on his age.) 1
Ya Digg? Posted May 28, 2020 Posted May 28, 2020 It just seems to be another one of those discussions where the narrative was already set on Josh before he was even drafted and people don't want to change their minds about it. They used a bunch of stats (which can be manipulated however you want them to look) and then said he won't change at any point going forward.The thing about that statement is that the other narrative about Allen coming out of college was that he was going to be a project and definitely needed a couple of years to develop, but none of these guys ever bring that up any more. It's just a reminder that these guys are here more for entertainment than analysis 4
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