FireChans Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 Just now, MJS said: He stated his opinion about Tua. He isn't saying that every single QB who has ever taken a snap in the NFL is automatically better than a rookie. And he did about Burrow. Lol. His opinion stinks and he’s far from alone. Just now, Joe in Winslow said: or, I was being sarcastic on burrow. But I should expect that kind of subtlety to be lost on the likes of you. Why would you be sarcastic? The argument is the exact same as the one you actually believe.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: And he did about Burrow. Lol. His opinion stinks and he’s far from alone. Deleted my response, because likely a moderator would have given me a vacation for it. And sorry, you're just not worth it, pal. 1 1
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 27, 2020 Author Posted May 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Its just the fact that anyone who doesn't agree Allen is the second coming, has an "agenda." P. S..... He is inaccurate. Ok, I'll take that criticism since I used the word "agenda". Reality is, I generally like Orlovsky and the way he breaks down QB play, I just disagree with him saying Josh Allen is the 3rd best QB in our division. I figured we needed something else to talk about besides Ed Oliver's DWI. 1
FireChans Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said: Deleted my response, because likely a moderator would have given me a vacation for it. And sorry, you're just not worth it, pal. And a coward too! Will you pick up your sword and fight, or will you perish like a dog? 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: Well, according to you, these top 40 college QBs are guaranteed NFL franchise QBs. Go ahead, defend the chart! Source: https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-yds-player-career.html That's you embellishing/exaggerating for effect. Nowhere did I say that. But faulting analysts based on what we've seen so far is strange. Bills fans act like Allen has taken the league by storm or something. He had a horrible supporting cast in 2018 and was a rookie, he passed the ball poorly, ran the ball well. He played a lot like his Scouting Reports said he would. In 2019, he passed the ball better relative to his rookie self, ran the ball for TDs, but was a bottom 1/3rd QB. He played to the positive side of his Scouting Reports. 2020, is his best setup yet. Continuity on the offensive line and Coaching staff, and the best skill talent he's ever had.
Dopey Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 1) Fitz 2) Allen or Darnold: toss up 4) Stidham My thought process is that we have the better team in the division, by far. Having said this, I went with who I think would do more with this talent this year. As it stands this year, if Fitz had our talent around him, he would be a runaway 1st. Allen and Darnold have way higher ceilings than Fitz, but still have a ton of work/improvement to do. I didn't include Tua due to him being a rookie and recovering from an injury. I don't think he starts for them unless Fitz gets hurt. I don't think Tua will be as good as Miami thinks he will be. Again, this is based on this year's teams. 1
MJS Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, FireChans said: And he did about Burrow. Lol. His opinion stinks and he’s far from alone. Why would you be sarcastic? The argument is the exact same as the one you actually believe. Neither QB's have played in the NFL and that's just a fact. We have busts all the time, even QB's that have been drafter very high and even first overall. It's not unreasonable to want to see if these guys can play well and succeed at the NFL level. There are QB's with great college careers that perform poorly in the NFL and QB's who had mediocre college careers who perform well in the NFL. My opinion of both QB's will be based on how they perform in the NFL. Right now I don't have an opinion, really. We've just seen too many busts for anything to be certain.
Alphadawg7 Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: I knew this would come up. The Bills made a projection when they drafted Allen. That his stature, physical gifts, intangibles, would outweigh the immediate inconsistency and rather low statistical production. Other analysts watch Tua, note his stature and injuries, but say that his high level of production and accuracy translate well to the pro-game. I don't fault analysts for watching Tua's college career and Allen's college career/pro career and concluding that Tua is better. Allen has not led a top flight offense at Wyoming or in Buffalo, but this year is his best supporting cast yet. Huh? Allen has 2 years of NFL tape...why are we talking college comparisons with Allen and Tua? Allen is a rapidly ascending 2 year veteran who amassed 30 TD's, a double digit win season, and a playoff birth in his 2nd year in the league. Do any of you even realize that Allen was SIXTH in the entire NFL in touchdowns? And in just his 2nd season, while only starting and finishing 14 games last year, with 9 new starters, and utter scrubs opposite Brown at WR, with a team that led the league in dropped passes. Not to mention, leads the NFL since entering the league in 4th quarter comeback wins (despite missing all or parts of 6 games over that span) where he was one of the highest rated passers in the whole NFL in the 4th quarter as well. So...who cares about Wyoming? Not even relevant in a comparison. 4 1
CSBill Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 Allen Darnold Fitz Stidham Tua is a backup until he proves otherwise. 2
Royale with Cheese Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said: From what I remember his biggest supporters were Chris Simms and Orlovsky. Simms always has and Orlovsky has been recent. That’s what I like about Orlovsky...he remained open. A lot of Analyst will stick to their guns no matter what. 1
Malazan Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 oh, wow, Allen being ranked #3 by some guy changed everything..every. thing.
Rock-A-Bye Beasley Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 Just remember this thread if Tua becomes good or great. Not for an “I told you so” but because everyone that’s up in arms about this will be the ones complaining about the Tua love just like they complain about Mahomes love. This same argument was had before 2018 season when Mahomes was getting training camp hype. if you’re complaining about this and the guy is good, I don’t want to hear any excuses like I’m still hearing with Mahomes. (not saying I predicted Mahomes or that Tua WILL be great)
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: That's you embellishing/exaggerating for effect. Nowhere did I say that. But faulting analysts based on what we've seen so far is strange. Bills fans act like Allen has taken the league by storm or something. He had a horrible supporting cast in 2018 and was a rookie, he passed the ball poorly, ran the ball well. He played a lot like his Scouting Reports said he would. In 2019, he passed the ball better relative to his rookie self, ran the ball for TDs, but was a bottom 1/3rd QB. He played to the positive side of his Scouting Reports. 2020, is his best setup yet. Continuity on the offensive line and Coaching staff, and the best skill talent he's ever had. Don't turn the subject back on Allen. You specifically stated, "Tua led a Top 2 D1 football program to a National Championship. Look at his college statistics verses Josh Allen's." This implies college statistics are a benchmark for being a NFL franchise QB. I am asking you to back that statement up using the chart of all the best college QBs ranked by passing stats.
GoBills808 Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: That's you embellishing/exaggerating for effect. Nowhere did I say that. But faulting analysts based on what we've seen so far is strange. Bills fans act like Allen has taken the league by storm or something. He had a horrible supporting cast in 2018 and was a rookie, he passed the ball poorly, ran the ball well. He played a lot like his Scouting Reports said he would. In 2019, he passed the ball better relative to his rookie self, ran the ball for TDs, but was a bottom 1/3rd QB. He played to the positive side of his Scouting Reports. 2020, is his best setup yet. Continuity on the offensive line and Coaching staff, and the best skill talent he's ever had. ‘Bottom third QB’ according to what?
TigerJ Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 People once rated Josh Rosen ahead of Josh Allen too. Some players just seem to have to prove everything, and some are given a pass. That's just the way media works. 1
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 27, 2020 Author Posted May 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: oh, wow, Allen being ranked #3 by some guy changed everything..every. thing. Or... we are just looking for things to talk about until the season starts back up. If you have better things to do, feel free to go do them...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Huh? Allen has 2 years of NFL tape...why are we talking college comparisons with Allen and Tua? Allen is a rapidly ascending 2 year veteran who amassed 30 TD's, a double digit win season, and a playoff birth in his 2nd year in the league. Do any of you even realize that Allen was SIXTH in the entire NFL in touchdowns? And in just his 2nd season, while only starting and finishing 14 games last year, with 9 new starters, and utter scrubs opposite Brown at WR, with a team that led the league in dropped passes. Not to mention, leads the NFL since entering the league in 4th quarter comeback wins (despite missing all or parts of 6 games over that span) where he was one of the highest rated passers in the whole NFL in the 4th quarter as well. So...who cares about Wyoming? Not even relevant in a comparison. Huh? How is Wyoming not relevant when an analyst is ranking Tua over Allen? What does the analyst have to go on? He has Tua's college performance only and draft position verses Allen's college production, draft status and first two years as a professional. There was a book on Allen coming from college into the pros. The cons in his Scouting Report have not been totally unproven by his first two years. The thing is, some Bills fans can't even have a debate. They are so focused on how offended they are. Yes Allen was 6th in total TDs. He also was 30th in ypg, 32nd in completion percentage, 23rd in rating, 21st in passing TDs and his offense scored 19.6 ppg against a weak schedule, with a defense that allowed 16.2 ppg. Tua is shorter in stature, not an elite athlete, not elite arm strength, and Greg Cosell said he is a system QB, not transcendent. So not all analysts are Dan O. But I don't get the outrage over that ranking. Allen can silence all the critics this season. 6 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said: Don't turn the subject back on Allen. You specifically stated, "Tua led a Top 2 D1 football program to a National Championship. Look at his college statistics verses Josh Allen's." This implies college statistics are a benchmark for being a NFL franchise QB. I am asking you to back that statement up using the chart of all the best college QBs ranked by passing stats. YES I DID SAY THAT, IN REGARDS TO THE OP WHICH WAS WHINING ABOUT DAN O RANKING TUA HIGHER THAN ALLEN. Yeah an analyst watched one guy win a National Championship and watched the other guy throw for 16 TDs in his final season at Wyoming. Not everyone agrees with the Bills FO projection on Allen, and that's okay. Edited May 27, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck 1
GoBills808 Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said: Huh? How is Wyoming not relevant when an analyst is ranking Tua over Allen? What does the analyst have to go on? He has Tua's college performance only and draft position verses Allen's college production, draft status and first two years as a professional. lmfao he has two years of professional tape to go on wtf is this 1
Straight Hucklebuck Posted May 27, 2020 Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: ‘Bottom third QB’ according to what? Math 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: lmfao he has two years of professional tape to go on wtf is this You can't read. So lmfao. In the statement you bolded I said "FIRST TWO YEARS AS A PROFESSIONAL" Not every analyst is blown away with Josh Allen. To me, that's okay. Allen can prove them all wrong this season. What's so bad about that conclusion at this point? Edited May 27, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck 1
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