Dan Orlovsky just did AFCE QB rankings on ESPN. Had Allen at #3!

[thurst44]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

At best, Allen has proven himself to be an average starting QB. The general consensus would probably put him somewhere in the 20-25 range of QBs while I would say somewhere in the 15-20 range is probably more accurate. It's not a stretch at all to think a rookie QB could play at that level, especially one as highly touted as Tua.

Sorry, but, yes, based on the recent history of rookie QBs, especially one coming off an injury, yes, presuming he will be better than an average QB is ridiculous. This should not even be a debate.

 

And, I'm sorry, but, no, 22 TDs to 3 INT in last three quarters of second year is not "proven himself to be an average starting QB... at best" He's got flaws, but there would be similar reason to believe his arrow is pointed upwards, so if you're going to presume for Tua, who has not taken one snap in the NFL yet, I'm sorry, but you have to do the same for Josh Allen who has looked better as time goes by. Why we go so out of our way to diminish our own players is beyond me sometimes. I'm not saying Josh Allen is Top Ten right now, just that he's maybe earned enough respect to be considered better than a raw rookie before he comes in the league. 

[thurst44]

10 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Jets will finish ahead of the Patriots? 

 

And you say Bills fans have rose colored glasses?

 

Hope you are right but I don't see the GOAT coach not fielding a competitive team. Especially not after coming off a season with the number one ranked defense. But maybe Stidham will be Peterman level bad?

They lost a lot of key players on that #1 defense as well (Van Noy, Collins, etc.). I agree we're being premature in declaring the Patriots dead-in-the-water, but there are reasons to believe they won't be as good, but given the last few years, even as positive as I tend to be, I would not be shocked if they beat us both times this year and were still a decent team. I also would not be surprised if after playing them very close both times last year, the dam burst and our up arrow team destroys their down arrow team twice.

[DCOrange]

20 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

What about the AFC South, with Watson, Rivers, Tannehill and Minshew/Glennon/Dobbs? Or the NFC East with Prescott, Jones, Wentz and Haskins?  I would rank those groups below the AFCE, but I guess it depends how you  are ranking them...  

NFC East is clearly ahead of the AFC East. Dak and Wentz are both better than anyone in the AFC East at the moment and Daniel Jones is arguably in the same tier as any of the AFC East guys as well.

 

AFC South is only a possibility if Rivers and Tannehill both fall off significantly (or if the AFC East guys show a lot of improvement). Watson is obviously easily the best QB of the bench and Tannehill was comfortably better than any of the AFC East guys last year as well. I think if everything breaks the right way, the AFC East could pass the AFC South this season, but based on last season's play, AFC East is pretty clearly the worst.

Edited May 28, 2020 by DCOrange

[TwistofFate]

6 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

NFC East is clearly ahead of the AFC East. Dak and Wentz are both better than anyone in the AFC East at the moment and Daniel Jones is arguably in the same tier as any of the AFC East guys as well.

 

AFC South is only a possibility if River and Tannehill both fall off significantly (or if the AFC East guys show a lot of improvement). Watson is obviously easily the best QB of the bench and Tannehill was comfortably better than any of the AFC East guys last year as well. I think if everything breaks the right way, the AFC East could pass the AFC South this season, but based on last season's play, AFC East is pretty clearly the worst.

Im with you on this.  I don't think its even a comparison really.  Every qb in this division is unproven.  Fitz is the best of the group by far and that's not saying a whole lot.  Darnold and Allen are striking no fear in anyone.  Stidham is completely untested....and the rookie, Tua,  is waiting in the wings.  As of right now, this absolutely looks like the worse group of starting Qbs in the same division that I can remember.

[buffaloboyinATL]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

Im with you on this.  I don't think its even a comparison really.  Every qb in this division is unproven.  Fitz is the best of the group by far and that's not saying a whole lot.  Darnold and Allen are striking no fear in anyone.  Stidham is completely untested....and the rookie, Tua,  is waiting in the wings.  As of right now, this absolutely looks like the worse group of starting Qbs in the same division that I can remember.

Wow! I'm not saying I'm right, but damn, I guess I rate Darnold and Allen higher than you and DCOrange do. For example, Watson is the only QB in the AFC South that I rank higher than either of them.  and then Rivers Tannehill and Minshew? Yes, Tannehill had a good year but I would not take him over Allen or Darnold and Rivers and Minshew are below 3 of the 4 starters in the AFCE.  Like I said, I guess I am higher on Darnold/Allen, then you are...

[Billl]

1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I am very much willing to say that is not the case. I am sure the crack research team here at TBD can come up with a list of divisional QB's that ranked below this one, which includes 3 first rounders and a relatively successful veteran journeyman.  I'm just too lazy to do the research myself.  

The returning QBs finished 28th, 29th, and 32nd last year in QBR.  Unless you’re really high on Stidham, this group has the potential to be historically bad.  (Yes I understand that people here are going to take issue with the rating system, but it’s widely used and removes subjectivity, so it’s good enough for this post.)

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=PASSING&opp=0&sort=10&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1

Edited May 28, 2020 by Billl

[buffaloboyinATL]

8 minutes ago, Billl said:

The returning QBs finished 28th, 29th, and 32nd last year in QBR.  Unless you’re really high on Stidham, this group has the potential to be historically bad.  (Yes I understand that people here are going to take issue with the rating system, but it’s widely used and removes subjectivity, so it’s good enough for this post.)

I don't put as much faith in the QBR rankings, but clearly I am on an island here either way.  I would take Allen over anyone in that division, except for Watson, regardless of what the QBR says... I guess I'm a fool.  By the way, are you sure Fitpatrick's QBR was that low? I saw a list that had him in the top 10.

Edited May 28, 2020 by buffaloboyinATL

[DCOrange]

9 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

I don't put as much faith in the QBR rankings, but clearly I am on an island here either way.  I would take Allen over anyone in that division, except for Watson, regardless of what the QBR says... I guess I'm a fool.  By the way, are you sure Fitpatrick's QBR was that low? I saw a list that had him in the top 10.

 

I'd take Allen moving forwards as well but that's just me betting on his upside. Tannehill was clearly better this past season and while I think he's overrated, the general consensus is that Rivers was too.

[billsfan_34]

23 hours ago, NewEra said:

It’s a dude’s opinion......this isn’t science gents.  Get a grip

Seems like your upset- sorry

23 hours ago, Bangarang said:

So Stidham is a better QB than Tua?

I cant answer that- no one can.

[NewEra]

56 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Seems like your upset- sorry

I cant answer that- no one can.

Telling people how they are feeling is my favorite response.  
 

Cool man.  Way to show me that you have absolutely nothing of to say.  grow up

[Buffalo Barbarian]

10 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Coming from a guy who's name is Buffalo Barbarian, I beg to differ. 

 

do you think the others are better? I think not .

 

 

[thurst44]

3 hours ago, Billl said:

The returning QBs finished 28th, 29th, and 32nd last year in QBR.  Unless you’re really high on Stidham, this group has the potential to be historically bad.  (Yes I understand that people here are going to take issue with the rating system, but it’s widely used and removes subjectivity, so it’s good enough for this post.)

 

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=PASSING&opp=0&sort=10&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=1

Oy, really?! Or, as is more likely, Allen and Darnold (as young quarterbacks with promise) are young QBs on the rise. I agree that the AFC East at start is probably the lowest on QBs going into the season. But you're acting like quarterbacks' QBR never improves, just ask Lamar Jackson and his 46.3 or whatever Drew Brees' would have been in his second and third seasons (not calculated, but his Rating was 9 and 19 pts worse than Allen's in 2019, so can't imagine it could be much better). And there's a lot of examples. 

 

By the way, according to ESPN, Allen was 24th -- not great, but again SECOND YEAR, same for Darnold. Also, this acts as if the fact Allen can beat you with his legs and had as many rushing TDs as the #2 picked-RB last year. It's funny how the league's QB-style has evolved, but our notions of measuring them hasn't. Allen had two more rushing TDs than the league MVP who is known for his rushing skills. 

 

Allen could still go either the Trubisky way or the Brees way, but to act like he (or Darnold for that matter, and I know what I have said here about Darnold) is clearly destined for a career of mediocrity does not hold water. They both have high ceilings and have shown progress (Allen IMO more than Darnold) -- including being better in the last 10+ games of the last season.

 

But, have fun with your "Let's Bash Our QB Who Just Led Us To A 10-6 Record And The Playoffs In His Second Year" Party. I feel he's already proven me wrong that he should not have been the pick in 2018 (in fairness, i fell behind him shortly after he was drafted).

Edited May 28, 2020 by thurst44

[BigBillsFan]

3 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

What about the AFC South, with Watson, Rivers, Tannehill and Minshew/Glennon/Dobbs? Or the NFC East with Prescott, Jones, Wentz and Haskins?  I would rank those groups below the AFCE, but I guess it depends how you  are ranking them...  

 

Do we watch the same sport?

 

Who is equal to Watson right now? Rivers? Tannehill?

Same with Prescott? Wentz? Jones looks promising and Haskins looks horrible.

 

Sorry, we're the worst by a country mile. There isn't one solid starter in the AFCE.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

7 minutes ago, thurst44 said:

Oy, really?! Or, as is more likely, Allen and Darnold (as young quarterbacks with promise) are young QBs on the rise. I agree that the AFC East at start is probably the lowest on QBs going into the season. Yep, quarterbacks' QBR never improves, just ask Lamar Jackson and his 46.3 or whatever Drew Brees' would have been in his second and third seasons (not calculated, but his Rating was 9 and 19 pts worse than Allen's in 2019, so can't imagine it could be much better). And there's a lot of examples. 

 

By the way, according to ESPN, Allen was 24th -- not great, but again SECOND YEAR -- same for Darnold. Also, this acts as if the fact Allen can beat you with his legs and had as many rushing TDs as the #2 picked-RB last year. It's funny how the league's QB-style has evolved, but our notions of measuring them hasn't. Allen had two more rushing TDs than the league MVP who is known for his rushing skills. 

 

Allen could still go either the Trubisky way or the Brees way, but to act like he (or Darnold for that matter, and I know what I have said here about Darnold) is clearly destined for a career of mediocrity does not hold water. They both have high ceilings and have shown progress (Allen IMO more than Darnold) -- including being better in the last 10+ games of the last season.

 

But, have fun with your "Let's Bash Our QB Who Just Led Us To A 10-6 Record And The Playoffs In His Second Year" Party. I feel he's already proven me wrong that he should not have been the pick in 2018 (in fairness, i fell behind him shortly after he was drafted).

 

Yeah, people seem to forget how pedestrian Drew Brees was in his first years in the league with the Chargers...hence the reason they drafted Manning..er..Rivers in 2004.  Point is, some people bloom late, maybe in the wrong system, or the player is just is who they are.  Time will tell, but the fact that as long as Allen keeps progressing, the hope is his skill set will come to full fruition.  

[buffaloboyinATL]

7 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Do we watch the same sport?

 

Who is equal to Watson right now? Rivers? Tannehill?

Same with Prescott? Wentz? Jones looks promising and Haskins looks horrible.

 

Sorry, we're the worst by a country mile. There isn't one solid starter in the AFCE.

Football, right?  I 100% agree that Watson is #1 right now out of these 2 divisions.. Rivers was bad every time I watched him last year. I would much rather have Allen or Darnold over him and possibly even Fitzpatrick, unless he somehow recaptures some of him previous form, which given his age, is not a guaranteed. More likely, he will continue to regress. Tannehill had a great season, but given what I have seen from him in the past, I don't believe he will maintain that level of play. The Jaguars QB situation is a mess and they will likely be in the running for Trevor Lawrence next season.  It is close (to me) but I think it is a fair argument that the AFCE QB's might be better as a group than the AFCS. I now see that I am probably the only one that feels this way.  

 

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Telling people how they are feeling is my favorite response.  
 

Cool man.  Way to show me that you have absolutely nothing of to say.  grow up

Lol your the one coming unhinged. I think its pretty funny. 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Lol your the one coming unhinged. I think its pretty funny. 

Unhinged.  Hahaha.  Yes, this is hilarious. Even better that you think it’s funny

[billsfan_34]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Unhinged.  Hahaha.  Yes, this is hilarious. Even better that you think it’s funny

Peace

[Billl]

1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Football, right?  I 100% agree that Watson is #1 right now out of these 2 divisions.. Rivers was bad every time I watched him last year. I would much rather have Allen or Darnold over him and possibly even Fitzpatrick, unless he somehow recaptures some of him previous form, which given his age, is not a guaranteed. More likely, he will continue to regress. Tannehill had a great season, but given what I have seen from him in the past, I don't believe he will maintain that level of play. The Jaguars QB situation is a mess and they will likely be in the running for Trevor Lawrence next season.  It is close (to me) but I think it is a fair argument that the AFCE QB's might be better as a group than the AFCS. I now see that I am probably the only one that feels this way.  

 

Didn’t the Jaguars just get 21 TDs and 6 INTs from a rookie last season?  How is that a mess?  He’s locked in for 3 more years for about $2,000,000 total.  Does he just have the wrong animal on his helmet?

[buffaloboyinATL]

11 minutes ago, Billl said:

Didn’t the Jaguars just get 21 TDs and 6 INTs from a rookie last season?  How is that a mess?  He’s locked in for 3 more years for about $2,000,000 total.  Does he just have the wrong animal on his helmet?

Honestly, he did better last year than I thought. I seemed to remember some back and forth between him and Foles during the year and just assumed he fell off as the year progressed.  I stand corrected.