bobblehead Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Well, personally I'm Baptist so it doesn't make much difference to me. One thing I don't understand though is why elect someone so old? I mean, he's only 6 years younger than JPII was. How much damage or good can he really do? 309112[/snapback] He's all about the transition. The Church needs to work on the legacy of JPII, as well as groom some younger prospects. So I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 white smoke has risen BREAKING NEWS!! 308958[/snapback] omg! they elected Ricky Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 He's all about the transition. The Church needs to work on the lagacy of JPII, as well as groom some younger prospects. So I hear. 309117[/snapback] I thought I read talk a while ago about inserting an older pope who would impose a "mandatory retirement age" or some such that would effectively make his stint short...any further word on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Ratzinger is unbelieveable.....people say he made all decisions the last 5 years anyway....he is ULTRA CONSERVATIVE...once issuing a decree that any catholic who votes for a pro choice candidate is a sinner....he also issued a decree that all non catholic forms of christianity were inferior......he will do nothing to bring the catholic church into the next millenium. I was rooting for the Cardinal from Quebec...he is a forward thinker Oh well he is 78 he wont be around too long. 309064[/snapback] So, the Papacy is like "American Idol" or "Survivor" in your mind? Football predictions, perhaps - something you "root" for? Nice that you wish for his demise - very caring of you. You've no idea, have you? I suspect your opinion about the new Pope has all the amount of investigation as you might do for a football draft choice. Christians believe that life is a gift from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachChuckDickerson Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 I agree the celibacy thing is bull sh--, hell I think there may be a kernal of truth to the Jesus/Mary Magdalene thing. But I have a hard time with people stomping their feet and saying "the church needs to change or I'm leaving'. Talk about whining. You've got your 41 flavors of religion these days, don't like the one you're with leave and find another. Become a Wiccan or a pagan and run naked through the forests for all I care. I would have 0 respect for a religion that basically said "you know what, with mass marketing and television and the internet changing the culture these days (usually for the worse), perhaps we should throw out some of the teachings we've been practicing for the last couple thousand years so the kids will think we're hip again"... 309110[/snapback] Wow. I could not have said it better myself. Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 So, the Papacy is like "American Idol" or "Survivor" in your mind? Football predictions, perhaps - something you "root" for? Nice that you wish for his demise - very caring of you. You've no idea, have you? I suspect your opinion about the new Pope has all the amount of investigation as you might do for a football draft choice. Christians believe that life is a gift from God. 309156[/snapback] I guess he's wrong for wanting his Church to select someone that will bring change for the Church. Not someone that wants to cling to policies that may or may not make sense in the face of current reality. If that's wrong then I guess I'm wrong. I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch19079 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 so when is he gunna change his name from Adolf to John Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 I guess he's wrong for wanting his Church to select someone that will bring change for the Church. Not someone that wants to cling to policies that may or may not make sense in the face of current reality. If that's wrong then I guess I'm wrong. I can live with that. 309163[/snapback] Some want the Catholic Church to make changes that fundamentally alter what they stand for. If so, it disappears. The billions of dollars worldwide donated and spent in good works, the schools and universities that educate millions along with imparting many worthwile ideas about how one should comport oneself in a civilized society. Destroy folk's faith in a pretty good set of principles, and you would be very dismayed in what would come to pass if those influences that temper our species' inherent self-centeredness and covetness gained free rein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Two years later he was drafted into a Nazi anti-aircraft unit as a helper, a common fate for teenage boys too young to be soldiers. Enrolled as a soldier at 18, in the last months of the war, he barely finished basic training.309028[/snapback] Stupid. Ein flakhilfer does not a National Socialist make. Hell, a Hitlerjugend does not necessarily a National Socialist make...membership in the Hitler Youth did not convey party membership, nor, being compulsory, even dictate any preexisting acceptance of Nazi philosophy. That makes Ratzinger little different than any other adolescent German boy in the early 40's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 *yawn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Stupid. Ein flakhilfer does not a National Socialist make. Hell, a Hitlerjugend does not necessarily a National Socialist make...membership in the Hitler Youth did not convey party membership, nor, being compulsory, even dictate any preexisting acceptance of Nazi philosophy. That makes Ratzinger little different than any other adolescent German boy in the early 40's. 309187[/snapback] There's some debate about that. The article that was linked earlier in the article even points that out. I'm not saying the guy was Himmler's right hand man. I'm just saying that the fact that he had anything to do with that group stains him as a candidate for Pope in my eyes. I'm just sorry the Cardinals didn't see it the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted April 19, 2005 Author Share Posted April 19, 2005 Stupid. Ein flakhilfer does not a National Socialist make. Hell, a Hitlerjugend does not necessarily a National Socialist make...membership in the Hitler Youth did not convey party membership, nor, being compulsory, even dictate any preexisting acceptance of Nazi philosophy. That makes Ratzinger little different than any other adolescent German boy in the early 40's. 309187[/snapback] So he was a Nazi, but he "didn't inhale?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Some want the Catholic Church to make changes that fundamentally alter what they stand for. If so, it disappears. The billions of dollars worldwide donated and spent in good works, the schools and universities that educate millions along with imparting many worthwile ideas about how one should comport oneself in a civilized society. Destroy folk's faith in a pretty good set of principles, and you would be very dismayed in what would come to pass if those influences that temper our species' inherent self-centeredness and covetness gained free rein. 309183[/snapback] My argument all along is that I'm disappointed in the way that the Catholic Church has handled itself recently. I don't want to throw a bunch of mud, I think everyone knows full well the problems that they have had. In addition to that I wish that they would look at making some reforms to make themselves a more inclusive Church including reassessing their stance on a celibate priesthood, allowing women to become priests, allowing contraception, and being more inclusive to gay Catholics. With naming Ratzinger as Pope it seems that the Cardinals have given their answer to this and it's a resounding no. I have come to realize that this kind of stubborn adherence to tradition simply for the sake of adhering to tradition does not jibe with what I want to teach my son about life. I'm sure that there were people before Vatican II that thought the Catholic world would come to an end if the mass wasn't read in Latin. I think you can see that it didn't. Change is not always something to be feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Don't you understand MANDITORY. In Nazi Germany, that meant do it or get sent to the concentration camps or shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 My argument all along is that I'm disappointed in the way that the Catholic Church has handled itself recently. I don't want to throw a bunch of mud, I think everyone knows full well the problems that they have had. In addition to that I wish that they would look at making some reforms to make themselves a more inclusive Church including reassessing their stance on a celibate priesthood, allowing women to become priests, allowing contraception, and being more inclusive to gay Catholics. With naming Ratzinger as Pope it seems that the Cardinals have given their answer to this and it's a resounding no. I have come to realize that this kind of stubborn adherence to tradition simply for the sake of adhering to tradition does not jibe with what I want to teach my son about life. I'm sure that there were people before Vatican II that thought the Catholic world would come to an end if the mass wasn't read in Latin. I think you can see that it didn't. Change is not always something to be feared. 309228[/snapback] Sounds like the Episcopalian Church, or 'Catholic-Light', would be perfect for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 There's some debate about that. The article that was linked earlier in the article even points that out. I'm not saying the guy was Himmler's right hand man. I'm just saying that the fact that he had anything to do with that group stains him as a candidate for Pope in my eyes. I'm just sorry the Cardinals didn't see it the same way. 309207[/snapback] Though I tend agree with you (in part, at least...using his performance as a flakhilfer really is friggin' dumb, almost akin to accusing a volunteer fireman of being a Republican - operative word there being almost), I'm willing to concede there's more to it than that. Like I said, it makes him very little different from any other adolescent German boy in WWII...and while I'd suggest that he who is chosen as pope should be held to a standard better described as "exceptional" rather than "average", I'd still caution against making individual judgements based on societal ills. Ratzenger's participation in elements of the Nazi German military and socio-economic system is far less an individual failing (where it's a failing at all) than symptomatic of the environment of his upbringing. And if he has actually survived and overcome that upbringing to be a truly pious and decent man of God...more power to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Go to Google, click on "Images" and then type in "Thongs". You'll have a good time. 309050[/snapback] No need to get in a huff, francis. Just liked the thong, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 God forbid they elect another young outgoing pope, Instead put a guy in there, who will be in a wheelchair in a few years and who you will only see on Christmas and Easter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Don't you understand MANDITORY. In Nazi Germany, that meant do it or get sent to the concentration camps or shot. 309241[/snapback] The point was already made in one of the articles that even "mandatory" represents a choice: the Hitlerjugend or "consciencious objector" status and Dachau. But even then...we're talking about a 14-year old kid. While I have little doubt that Karel Wojtyla would have opted for the camps himself...he was also six or so years older. It's a rare 14-year old boy that can choose imprisonment and hard labor over compulsory service in a seemingly innocuous (as it was in the time and place) youth organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Sounds like the Episcopalian Church, or 'Catholic-Light', would be perfect for you. 309246[/snapback] Maybe so. Although I suspect you're derisive in your suggestion, maybe they have a better handle on what it means to be a Christian. It's too bad that people like you would rather force out elements of change in your Church rather than considering what they have to say. Like I said the vote for the most conservative of Cardinals indicates to me that the Church is obstinate in its refusal to consider reform. I simply don't want to be a part of that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts