Hardy Pyle Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 Looking for some advice on lessons learned. I'm a professional....Chartered Accountant and Insolvency Trustee who is not scared to do work handy work himself, but most things I will be doing to this house will be a first time affair. I don't work in the trades, but I have some resources to lean on. I'm thinking of purchases a 1945 bungalow in a really hot district of town. A block from a river, walk to downtown, and in a revitalization community. It's 1200 square feet and in a bit of mess. Structurally it looks good but I will get a house inspection. Thinking about buying it and either gutting it completely or doing a major renovations. Moving interior walls, bathrooms, carpets, hardwood, etc. The vision I have is to have a professional help with the "critical tasks" and do the other tasks like painting, etc. on my own. Anyone done something like this? Lessons learned...things you wish you knew before you started. This will be my third house, and in the past, the most I've done is refinished hardwoods, painted walls, plastered holes, etc. Thanks for any advice.
sweet baboo Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 i'm told windows are very difficult to put in and have been recommended by others that have installed their own windows to just pay for a professional installation so i just plunked down 5k to change 9 windows in my house
PIZ Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 If something looks like it should take 2 hours, plan on 2 days. Seriously.
SouthernMan Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 i'm told windows are very difficult to put in and have been recommended by others that have installed their own windows to just pay for a professional installationso i just plunked down 5k to change 9 windows in my house 308912[/snapback] Maybe there are some windows and casings that are tricky, but for the most part, installing windows is reasonably easy. As long as everything is plumb and square, there shouldn't be any trouble. The process is basically the same as replacing a door. Probably will need some shims, wood filler putty, galvanized finishing nails for outside trim, paint, etc. ....Just not that big a deal. Who told you windows were difficult - the guy charging 5k to do it? How long did it take him to do it? Did that 5k include the windows? If that was labor alone (not including windows), you just took it up the ass. That would come out to more than $500/window. So, if it took 3 hours to install one window, the guy is making roughly $180/hr.*** PLEASE tell me that price included windows. A lot will depend on insulation quality, tints, hardware, size, etc., but it still sounds high. *** for a typical double hung standard sized window, it should take me less than a ½ hour to remove the old window and replace it, assuming I didn't have to fir in or expand the existing opening. If it required extensive framing, siding, and interior drywall patching & painting, it would take a good bit more time. But for replacement of the same sized window, it's not a complicated operation. pop one out, slap a new one in. A little caulk, a little paint, and back to the internet.
Mr Info Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 I have gone through this, with a much older home, and these are my lessons learned: Everything will cost more and take longer than you anticipated. You will discover some things that require repair that you did not figure into your budget. You will learn a lot about building that may be useful later on. When it is finished you will be extremely gratified. Also, since it is a revitalized district, you may want to check if there are any local or territorial incentives for restoring a house. In the states, I did this in VA and was able to get a renovation incentive of 25%, so for every dollar I put in, I got back .25. There were also real estate tax increase abatements for five years. A good deal and I was happy I researched it.
rockpile Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 A lot depends on some other considerations: Are you married? Do you have kids? Can you get a certificate of occupancy? A single guy or a couple, with a C of O can live in the house while it is being rebuilt and save a bundle. Go to a used book store, garage sale or flea market and buy a Popular Mechanics Home Improvement Guide from around 1945 so you understand how your house was put together, what the plumbing and wiring will be like. Basically you will see what is really behind that plaster. Are you doing this to live there or for an investment? If investment, be as frugal as you can, but still do it right. If it is for YOU, do it to last a lifetime. Are your "resources" cheap? I had my son and his friends (all burly and over 21 move us into my current home. Paid them in beer and pizza. Have another friend who did plumbing work with me for a day, I worked on his deck with him for a day. I have owned four homes now and basically gutted three and did major remodeling on the fourth. This is a start. I am a dilletante, not a crafstman, so I hope some experts speak up. Good luck. Looking for some advice on lessons learned. I'm a professional....Chartered Accountant and Insolvency Trustee who is not scared to do work handy work himself, but most things I will be doing to this house will be a first time affair. I don't work in the trades, but I have some resources to lean on. I'm thinking of purchases a 1945 bungalow in a really hot district of town. A block from a river, walk to downtown, and in a revitalization community. It's 1200 square feet and in a bit of mess. Structurally it looks good but I will get a house inspection. Thinking about buying it and either gutting it completely or doing a major renovations. Moving interior walls, bathrooms, carpets, hardwood, etc. The vision I have is to have a professional help with the "critical tasks" and do the other tasks like painting, etc. on my own. Anyone done something like this? Lessons learned...things you wish you knew before you started. This will be my third house, and in the past, the most I've done is refinished hardwoods, painted walls, plastered holes, etc. Thanks for any advice. 308903[/snapback]
tjwbills Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 I assume you're talking about downtown Buff and since it sounds like you've closed the deal than you've already made the decision that this is a good investment. So why not finish it? I live in Florida and what you describe is done all the time here. I have experienced doing it myself and would recommend getting subs to do some of the more important tasks like drywall, framing, etc. Definately recommend doing it if it intrigues you at all but be forewarned that it is difficult at times and frustrating. You will also have to make budget concessions with yourself because you will definately blow through it. Focus on the big ticket items like your walls, kitchen, and floors. Afterwards, various hardware details like knobs, handles, or other room accents can be added later. Definately gratifying when its all said and done though. Good luck.
rockpile Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 Tennis anyone? 309175[/snapback] You are SUCH a plug hole.
SeanO Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 Windows are very easy to install. Measurements must be percise. Also older house tend to have custom sizes & are costly. I am an accountant by trade but have restored & sold a few houses. Most of the work I have done on my own & the pay day is usually very lucative! THe most expensive updates are usually electrical & Plumbing & if you have very limited knowledge hire someone. The more you can do by yourself the better. good luck. i'm told windows are very difficult to put in and have been recommended by others that have installed their own windows to just pay for a professional installationso i just plunked down 5k to change 9 windows in my house 308912[/snapback]
JinVA Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 You are SUCH a plug hole. 309190[/snapback] Flush you!
Bob Lamb Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 I'm thinking of purchases a 1945 bungalow in a really hot district of town. A block from a river, walk to downtown, and in a revitalization community. It's 1200 square feet and in a bit of mess. Structurally it looks good but I will get a house inspection. Thinking about buying it and either gutting it completely or doing a major renovations. Moving interior walls, bathrooms, carpets, hardwood, etc. Make sure that "revitalization community" doesn't mean a review board that can dictate what you can and can't do to change the exterior aspects of the structure.
Hardy Pyle Posted April 19, 2005 Author Posted April 19, 2005 thanks everyone...and Bob Lamb...I've seen you post a couple times recently...what a pleasant surprise. hope all is well...I should be coming back down to SD for this years game.
John in VA Beach Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 I just went through the same thing. The kitchen top to bottom took two weeks. The bathroom two days. I agree it always takes longer to do things than you estimate and the $ guesses are always lower than the reality. I had the siding and six windows done for just under 12 K. This was by far the best price, the house is 2100 sq ft, to give you some perspective. I have painted all walls and installed all new fixtures. I'd say that it has in total costed about 40K total. As others have said, you will learn a great deal and be amazed how much you can do your self! I still need to replace the carpet and do a master bath... My best advise is that if you see any mold, pass on the house. There was a problem with closing on mine and we rented for two months prior to buying. During this time we could not fix anything, for obvious reasons. The kitchen was a mess and the cabinets had mold. I was sick with bizzarro symptoms for almost six months from that crap. I would never touch a house again with any signs of mold. Having said that, now that I am getting better, I'm still greatful for the experience. Doing it yourself really makes it your house.
sweet baboo Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 Who told you windows were difficult - the guy charging 5k to do it? nope, just 3 family friends who decided it would be cheaper to just do it themselves...one of the guys is actually really handy...put in his own hardwood floor but decided windows were too difficult after looking at the windows of our house (older house...you should see some of the framing..it's disgraceful), he advised us to just go with a professional installation, especially since 6 of the windows are upstairs How long did it take him to do it? Did that 5k include the windows? If that was labor alone (not including windows), you just took it up the ass. That would come out to more than $500/window. So, if it took 3 hours to install one window, the guy is making roughly $180/hr.*** PLEASE tell me that price included windows. A lot will depend on insulation quality, tints, hardware, size, etc., but it still sounds high. 308963[/snapback] work hasn't been done yet but yeah, the price ($5000) includes 9 windows and a new door work done by rochester colonial the windows absolutely needed to be changed...during the winter, i had plastic painter's tarp duct taped over the windows to keep the wind out...the tarp was always ballooned inwards and stretched tight i'd hope we didn't get ripped off...home depot and lowes were charging in the 6k range
nonprophet Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 I spent two-and-a-half years renovating a house built in 1927. Fixing the roof should be job one. Make sure it doesn't leak or the work you do inside will be wasted. Believe me, I know. I highly recommend that you gut it completely. Only by doing this will you discover all of the structural, plumbing and electrical problems that it has. Also, you'll be able to add wall and ceiling insulation as well as blocking for cabinets and light fixtures. New drywall all the way around will look a lot better than a mix of drywall with old lathe and plaster. In every room where I salvaged the lathe and plaster, I regretted it. Make sure you have: * a drill/driver * a circular saw * a reciprocating saw * a lamp I recommend you pick up a DeWalt 18v cordless power tool set with all of the above for $500 at Lowe's; it's great. Get used to Home Depot and/or Lowe's; you'll practically be living there. Good luck!
Hardy Pyle Posted April 19, 2005 Author Posted April 19, 2005 nonprophet...did you do all the work yourself and what type of experience did you have before this....I'm kind of excited about doing alot of the work myself.... ...I didn't know much about cars, but started fixing up my car on my own, and I've learnt so much...a reward in itself.
nonprophet Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 Hardy, I hired contractors for the jobs requiring special tools and/or skills: the roofing, flooring and rough-in plumbing jobs, for example. I did demolition, insulation, drywall, molding, light fixtures, cabinets, sinks, tubs, showers, toilets, doors, locks, electrical sockets, switches, painting, pavers and planting. I probably could have done the rough-in plumbing, too, if I had learned how to solder copper pipe. Next time I will as finding a good, fairly-priced plumber was one of my biggest headaches. I had no experience when I started out. It probably wouldn't have taken 2 1/2 years if I had known better from the first.
zonabb Posted April 19, 2005 Posted April 19, 2005 Hardy, if you want some advice, drop me an email at zonabb@hotmail.com. I work remodeling in Bflo. I also have remodeled my own home before I got into the biz. So I have learned alot and am honest. As for the window argument, let's put it this way. It's not black and white. $5k for nine windows seems steep but it depends on what they were. If they were just prime vinyl replacements, you probably got robbed, unless there was exterior trimming to be done, maybe on second floor windows. As for installing windows yourself, it can be a huge job if you are actually installed brand new double hungs by removing the entire old window (unlike replacements where you use the existing casement and only remove the sashes). It will more than likely require special order windows if the house has odd window sizes. It the opening has to be re-roughed, you're talking about interior drywall works and probably exterior trim and siding. Bottomline is, nothing feels better than doing your own work, IMO. I have done so much on my house I can't keep track... built a new garage last year and am siding it this year!
Recommended Posts