Reason the Dolphins fired their OC

[BringBackFergy]

20 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

#youfaileditcuzyoucantspellit

I missed one out of 16. Thanks @Gugny

[TigerJ]

1 hour ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

Where’s FireChan when you need him. 
 

not impressed with what he did here. 

His main problem in Buffalo was the inability to hire a decent defensive coordinator.  His offensive coordinator was nothing to write home about either, but Chan could at least help out with that.  The defense was a train wreck.

[3rdand12]

21 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

His main problem in Buffalo was the inability to hire a decent defensive coordinator.  His offensive coordinator was nothing to write home about either, but Chan could at least help out with that.  The defense was a train wreck.

and if i understood the FO back in the day they were reluctant to spend money.  period. If they had found  . pursued, and likely overpaid for a actual D coordinator during Chan's  regime we might have had something to reckon with. But honestly ?

Ralph , and or his Boys were cheap. painfully so

 

Dave Wannstache 

 

 really ?

 I mean REALLY

 fit em up boys and win yur matchup

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Dennison was fired after one season (and he wasn't McD's first choice to begin with ). 

By all accounts his first choice was Mike McCoy...not impressed.

 

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Daboll got raw Josh Allen and Nathan Peterman to work with, along with no WRs, in his first season.  Did you notice any improvement last year?

 

There was improvement. Kinda like going from a 2.1 to a 2.7 GPA in school. It’s improvement but still not good. I’ve said countless times that the excuses for Daboll are all but gone and either he produces a good offense this year or it’s time to move on. 

 

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

I really don't understand what is going on in some of your minds.

 

 

Not wanting a poor offense must make us clinically insane. What’s going on with McD’s and BB’s minds who have repeatedly said the offense needs to be better and score more points. That dot McD even fired his 1st OC after 1 year ignoring how important continuity and stability is. I think he might be one of us after all.

[BuffaloFan68]

We ran Greg Roman out of town & look at him now - we just didn’t give him enough time.  Daboll will be fine.

Lets Go Buffalo!!!!!

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Giants interview makes sense.... Judge coached with a Daboll in NE.... basically the same thing as Flores hiring O’Shea.... interestingly enough the Dolphins offense wasn’t much worse than the Bills offense. 

You do understand this is a results oriented business? You don’t get 4 years to install an offense if your first 3 years demonstrate lackluster results. Daboll is absolutely on the hot seat. This is a make or break year for him here more so than it is Allen, IMO. 

 

 

Yes, I do understand this is a results based business, Scott.

 

Scott, you do understand that absolutely nobody with a brain looks at those results without context? Or do you not? Because I've just said so about three times in a row and you have ignored it each time. And yet it is without the slightest doubt absolutely true. If they did look at results without context, the Niners would have fired Bill Walsh  after his first two years when his results were very poor. They didn't because they looked at the context, which in that case was that Walsh had rebuilt and was working with a quarterback who was young and developing. Sound familiar?

 

And again, "you don't get 4 years to install an offense if your first 3 years demonstrate lackluster results" is wrong for exactly the same reason. It ... depends ... on ... the ... context. You will get that 4th year sometimes. Other times you will not. A management group with a clue will look at both results and context and will come to a nuanced conclusion depending on what they think. What they will not do is exactly what you say they will. "Let's see, three years, bad stats ... well, we don't have to look any further or think any harder, this guy's out." Any management that makes decisions that poorly is a group that no coach should want to work under anyway. And Beane and McDermott are very clearly not thinkers who work that simplistically.

 

And, no, Daboll is not on the hot seat because a guy named Scott on the internet thinks so. Believe that if you will, but outside Oz that won't make it true. I mean, in a sense pretty much every coach in the league is, and in that sense, sure, you're right. They clearly have confidence in him and think he's doing a good job. We know that because he's still here and still has the job after two years of working with him and watching every day. He's not on the hot seat. But will he like all of them have his performance evaluated carefully at the end of the year as they go over everything? Yeah, of course. And if they don't like his performance, will he be gone? Without a doubt. Will they check the internet to see what that guy named Scott thinks? I'm sure both of us know that's highly highly unlikely, and I'm quite sure they don't check my opinions either, or any of ours.

 

And as things stand, does the context he's operating in appear quite a bit better than it has been so far, and will that be taken into account? Yeah, of course.

 

The difference is that you don't like the job he's doing, which again is fine. Nothing wrong with having an opinion. But they do like the job he's doing. They do.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Thurman#1

[K-9]

9 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

Ah, no.    Joe B of The Athlectic had a story this week about Gabriel Davis' ability to contribute to the Bills as a rookie.   After running just 3-4 routes in college at UCF, this is what he's going to have to learn as a Bill:

 

That classic route tree is known by most high school receivers and I’m sure Davis is more than familiar with it. 
 

The challenge lies in understanding route concepts in conjunction with various coverage schemes and combinations. Fortunately, we have three veteran receivers who have a good understanding of that and a QB entering his third year in the scheme. If Davis has a high aptitude, he should be ok in that surrounding. 

[Happy]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Dennison was fired after one season (and he wasn't McD's first choice to begin with ).  Daboll got raw Josh Allen and Nathan Peterman to work with, along with no WRs, in his first season.  Did you notice any improvement last year?

 

I really don't understand what is going on in some of your minds.

 

 

Nobody twisted McDermott's arm in choosing Dennison as the HC; that was still his choice.  McD could have picked someone else, but he didn't most likely because no current or former Carolina Panther offensive assistants or coordinators were available.  McD is on his second OC and SpT coordinator in four years.  Not a good record, which screams McDermott is a DC, not HC.

[Saint Doug]

15 hours ago, eball said:

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, SOMEBODY couldn’t wait to get in here and trash our OC!

 

The mediocre offense couldn’t POSSIBLY be a by-product of developing a raw QB for two seasons, could it?  Nah...Daboll sucks and McD doesn’t know offense!

 

You’re consistent, I’ll give you that.

I’m not going to get too down on Daboll, but I think the criticism he gets (which I wasn’t doing directly) is that he’s yet to have consistent success anywhere as an OC. I’ll certainly work with him to see, but to blame his lack of success on having a young QB isn’t looking at his whole body of work.
 

Chan is Chan. We know what he is and what he isn’t. He’s been in the league for decades and he certainly deserves respect for this. He brings respectability to the Phins in the least. As for Daboll, I guess we’ll see. He’s either going to do do well enough to deserve HC interviews or he’ll flame out and be back coaching TEs or in the NCAA again. Either scenario wouldn’t surprise me. 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

His buddy from NE wanted to interview him for OC. We can count that as an interview since I admittedly forgot about the request. Then again, we’ve seen legitimately terrible coordinators and position coaches constantly get chances because the NFL is all about who you know. 

 

 

Did you poll all the players, coaches or front office personnel? All of them? 
 

If they don’t improve after 3 years then it’s not far too early to know the reason.
 

McD fired Dennison after 1 year as OC. Did he need more time to know he was a poor OC and part of the problem?

 

 

The NFL really is not all about who you know. That's ridiculous on the face of it. Does who you know come into it? Absolutely. But we haven't seen many horrible coaches get a lot of opportunities. We see guys doing a pretty decent job get plenty and we see plenty of those prove that at the next level they may be horrible.

 

No, I did not poll all the players, coaches or front office personnel. You might want to settle down in front of a dictionary and look up the words "consensus" and the word "most," both of which I used. Oh, maybe "widely considered," too, as I look back.

 

Is it "after three years" now? Have I missed a year somewhere? No? Got it. OK, then here's something you've missed. Nobody knows the future. That would include you, by the way. And me too, I hasten to say. What happens at the end of next year will depend extremely heavily on what happens during the intervening time. You're kidding yourself if you think that there aren't plenty of circumstances where they could feel that the offense didn't improve much and it wasn't primarily Daboll's fault.

 

Just as a quick example, if Diggs and Allen miss the season with injuries they might easily feel that though the offense didn't improve much it wasn't Daboll's fault. There are plenty of other scenarios where they might feel that way. Like it or not it simply doesn't make sense pretending you know now what will happen based on imaginary future results. What they'll do is much more complex than checking the date and the stats from a website and saying, "Welp, it's the day after the season ends, and as I check, the offence isn't in the top half ... Daboll's gone." It just is a ton more complex, and thank goodness for that. This FO is a group that grinds. I absolutely love that about them, they grind, and they do it with intelligence, with an understanding of context, and with a plan. And what it comes down to is simple to put into words but will be arrived at with a lot of grinding ... they'll look at whether he is doing a good enough job under the circumstances and whether they can improve more with someone else.

 

And you're dead on with Dennison, but that's an argument on my side, not yours. Dennison was fired after a year. Daboll is still here after two years. Clearly they thought Dennison was not doing the job, and that Daboll is.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Happy said:

 

Nobody twisted McDermott's arm in choosing Dennison as the HC; that was still his choice.  McD could have picked someone else, but he didn't most likely because no current or former Carolina Panther offensive assistants or coordinators were available.  McD is on his second OC and SpT coordinator in four years.  Not a good record, which screams McDermott is a DC, not HC.

 

 

By this ridiculous logic, Marv Levy apparently screamed he was not head coach material when he fired his STs coordinator and his DC after his first year as HC.

 

Apparently Pete Carroll also screamed he was no head coach, replacing OC, DC and STs coordinator in his first year.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

By this ridiculous logic, Marv Levy apparently screamed he was not head coach material when he fired his STs coordinator and his DC after his first year as HC.

 

Apparently Pete Carroll also screamed he was no head coach, replacing OC, DC and STs coordinator in his first year.

 

 

 

If McDermott can get to a SB with the coordinators he has now, I'll eat crow.  Until then, our OC and SpT coordinators remain suspect.  Daboll's issues have been well discussed, though Heath Farwell not as much.  There was two occasions of blocked punts this past year, the second one where the Patriots saw a blocking vulnerability which didn't get fixed from prior weeks and they took advantage of it.  

[Bangarang]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The NFL really is not all about who you know. That's ridiculous on the face of it. Does who you know come into it? Absolutely. But we haven't seen many horrible coaches get a lot of opportunities. We see guys doing a pretty decent job get plenty and we see plenty of those prove that at the next level they may be horrible.

Rob Ryan says hello

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

No, I did not poll all the players, coaches or front office personnel. You might want to settle down in front of a dictionary and look up the words "consensus" and the word "most," both of which I used. Oh, maybe "widely considered," too, as I look back.

 

So you’re just guessing then? Got it.

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Is it "after three years" now? Have I missed a year somewhere? No? Got it. OK, then here's something you've missed. Nobody knows the future. That would include you, by the way. And me too, I hasten to say. What happens at the end of next year will depend extremely heavily on what happens during the intervening time. You're kidding yourself if you think that there aren't plenty of circumstances where they could feel that the offense didn't improve much and it wasn't primarily Daboll's fault.

 

When did I say it’s already been 3 years? Oh right, I didn’t so I haven’t missed anything. I don’t pretend to know the future either, obviously. 

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Just as a quick example, if Diggs and Allen miss the season with injuries they might easily feel that though the offense didn't improve much it wasn't Daboll's fault. There are plenty of other scenarios where they might feel that way. Like it or not it simply doesn't make sense pretending you know now what will happen based on imaginary future results. What they'll do is much more complex than checking the date and the stats from a website and saying, "Welp, it's the day after the season ends, and as I check, the offence isn't in the top half ... Daboll's gone." It just is a ton more complex, and thank goodness for that. This FO is a group that grinds. I absolutely love that about them, they grind, and they do it with intelligence, with an understanding of context, and with a plan. And what it comes down to is simple to put into words but will be arrived at with a lot of grinding ... they'll look at whether he is doing a good enough job under the circumstances and whether they can improve more with someone else.

I’m not pretending to know what will happen just like I’m not pretending to know what the leaguewide opinion of Daboll is. If this offense gets through the season healthy and there isn’t much of an improvement then I’d guess and hope we move on from Daboll. That’s it.

 

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

And you're dead on with Dennison, but that's an argument on my side, not yours. Dennison was fired after a year. Daboll is still here after two years. Clearly they thought Dennison was not doing the job, and that Daboll is.

 

 

Maybe. Maybe Daboll just has a longer leash because McD doesn’t want Allen to try and learn a new offense. 

[Lurker]

14 hours ago, K-9 said:

The challenge lies in understanding route concepts in conjunction with various coverage schemes and combinations. 

 

Absolutely agree.   It's a lot to process for college WRs who ran limited route trees and explains why they often struggle early in their careers.    I'm convinced it's why Zay Jones flamed out--he often seemed to be zigging when he should have been zagging...

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Absolutely agree.   It's a lot to process for college WRs who ran limited route trees and explains why they often struggle early in their careers.    I'm convinced it's why Zay Jones flamed out--he often seemed to be zigging when he should have been zagging...

To be fair most college offenses provide similar limited route tree experience for its WR. Some college offenses and passing schemes are more sophisticated but it’s not common. Most college WRs need to learn and develop this upon entering the nfl 

[Capco]

18 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

 

 

And compare that to the  West Coast tree...

 

 

As well as the Air Coryell tree

 

Oh snap they have different route trees?!  I never knew that.  

[Lurker]

33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

To be fair most college offenses provide similar limited route tree experience for its WR. Some college offenses and passing schemes are more sophisticated but it’s not common. Most college WRs need to learn and develop this upon entering the nfl 

 

Which is why the interview process is so important.   Teams need to understand how these guys process things mentally.   We see Wonderlic scores a lot for QBs, not so much for WRs.    That probably is an incorrect way to look at things, given how they have to adjust to sight reads and coverage disguises, all while running flat out.

 

I hope our rookies can make the leap as the Bills track record with Jones, Foster and other young wideouts hasn't exactly been stellar in recent years...

[Milanos Milano]

This is what happens when you try and run plays like the Annexation of Puerto Rico. 

 

[Scott7975]

On 5/22/2020 at 9:47 PM, IgotBILLStopay said:

always good when an AFCE opponent’s coaching ranks are in disarray. that being said, these “issues” are less about the coaching tree and more about individual personalities. last couple of seasons, Bills fans have been a bit hard on Daboll and before that were harsh on Gailey as well. Ultimately winning cures everything and losing cannot cure anything. O’Shea situation appears to be a combination of losing and inability to connect with the younger crowd.

I personally liked Chan and his offense.

[T master]

With Fitz set to lead the Fins off in training camp I'd say they are much better off with him to help Chan in teaching his scheme to the rest of the team especially since Fitz has been in Chan's offense more than once .