Reason the Dolphins fired their OC

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, Happy said:

Doesn't Daboll have the same problem?  I recall John Brown mentioning that this offense is the most complex he has been in.  

"Obviously, there is a bit of a difference between a 20-season veteran like Brady and the younger players of a rebuilding team. The reported result: confusion among those players and complaints that O’Shea wasn’t doing a good job of teaching the playbook.

One player told the Herald that veteran quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick ended up taking more active role running the offense. The Harvard graduate reportedly had no major issues understanding the playbook."

 

Fitz had no problem... the rest of the offensive players might have had difficulty adapting to that scheme though. Probably why O'Shea is gone. 

 

Look at what the Dolphins managed to do near the end of the 2019 season. They beat the Eagles in week 13, 37-31. A team that pounded Buffalo week 8, 31-13 and it wasn't even close. Buffalo was dominated by Philly on both sides of the ball. 

 

For the last game of the regular season, Miami also went up to New England and beat the Patriots 27-24 in one of my favorite games of the 2019 season. Along with the Titans beating the Patriots in New England in that WC playoff game 20-13. 

 

 

Anyway, when you consider that Josh Allen is a very, very bright young man. Daboll was coaching him very hard as he was yelling at him on the sidelines after some plays. Things changed for the better when Daboll went up into the booth to help Allen recognize what the opposing defense was doing before setting protections, calling the play. I also think this helped Daboll in seeing what the defense was about to do and call the appropriate play. 

 

Josh Allen has had very limited exposure to NFL offensive minds and Daboll is teaching him a very brilliant, complex offense. Now some might realize just how important it is to have a veteran QB in camp to help the younger QB's adjust to the NFL. 

 

My take is that Daboll is also setting up a very complex passing offense much like the Patriots run and he hasn't had an experienced veteran QB running those plays. Josh Allen for 2020 going into his third season. Brian Daboll 6 years exp as an NFL OC, his passing offenses in yards, 32nd, 29th, 23rd, 32nd, 31st, 26th. 

 

2018 Wonderlic scores, Fitz had a 48 and is a 15 year veteran. 

Josh Allen (Wyoming): 37

Josh Rosen (UCLA): 29

Sam Darnold (USC): 28

Baker Mayfield (Oklahoma): 25

Lamar Jackson (Louisville): 13

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767339-report-josh-allen-josh-rosen-top-wonderlic-scores-for-2018-nfl-draft-qbs

 

 

[GreggTX]

Reason #2:  Chan is a very good OC and play caller. Just don't let him pick your QB or DC.

[vincec]

5 hours ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

The simple philosophy works much better on defense than offense. Complexity shouldn’t be a negative on offense. Your a step ahead of the defense so you have the luxury to be more complex 

Screen that, I don’t want dinosaurs in this league. I understand his offense is more modern but he’s still old school in coaching. Hence why his offenses have always flamed out

That and he has always had Fitz at QB.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Is O’Shea back with the Pats?

Even if he isn't, he is...?

8 hours ago, Happy said:

Doesn't Daboll have the same problem?

Possibly.  However, when your other ten players are performing 'Swan Lake' on the field, and you still run Gore straight up the middle, the complexity is blunted.

[Nihilarian]

4 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Erhardt-Perkins Offense 

The system is designed to simplify things for the quarterback by eliminating the lengthy play-calls used in West Coast and Air Coryell offenses, instead, using one-or-two word names for passing plays that are based on route combinations, or ‘concepts.’ These concepts typically feature two-or-three man route combinations on each side of the formation and these packaged concepts are each given names that are easy for the offense to digest.

The lack of verbiage makes it easier for an offense to use tempo and go no-huddle, as the passer can simply call out the name of a given concept, rather than an entire play. This system also stresses defenses by running a small number of plays out of a variety of formations. Often run the same play from multiple different formations to emphasize mismatches.

 

Im not sure why everyone thinks our offense is so complex, its really not.  Its actually the opposite.

All that they simplified was the nomenclature, cadence. The scheme is very complex.

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

One player told the Herald that veteran quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick ended up taking more active role running the offense. The Harvard graduate reportedly had no major issues understanding the playbook."

Maybe Billy Joe Hobert was onto something?  "What I don't know can't hurt me".  ?

[eball]

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

This might be us in a year...

 

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yes.... I’m sure it’s played a part in why our offense has been average at best his first two years here... and every year for him as an OC.

 

Never understood the complex offensive playbook strategy and never really trusted McDermott hiring an OC. Keep it simple stupid. 

 

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Truth is Daboll has sucked everywhere he’s gone in the NFL as an OC.... fans have a legitimate gripe to question the hire and the results to this point.

 

8 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

No it’s really not. Results matter, and to through 2 years the results haven’t really been there. 

 

7 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

I would love to see Chan running our offense, but at this point, I’ll stick with the continuity. 

 

Wow, SOMEBODY couldn’t wait to get in here and trash our OC!

 

The mediocre offense couldn’t POSSIBLY be a by-product of developing a raw QB for two seasons, could it?  Nah...Daboll sucks and McD doesn’t know offense!

 

You’re consistent, I’ll give you that.

[cage]

9 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

#wunderlicmatters

 

Fitzpatrick is Ivy League...

[YoloinOhio]

Seems like this would be on Flores, not O’Shea. Flores knew what offense he was bringing to the table when he hired him. Anyway I’m surprised Brady didn’t find a way to grab him and bring him down to Tampa. 

[SoTier]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Truth is Daboll has sucked everywhere he’s gone in the NFL as an OC.... fans have a legitimate gripe to question the hire and the results to this point.

 

I am unwilling to blame Daboll for the Bills poor offense in 2018 and 2019 because of the dearth of offensive talent that has been a problem all through McDermott's tenure. 

 

In 2018, the Bills simply didn't have NFL caliber offensive talent.  The handling of Allen by the Bills n 2018 was reprehensible -- and it was decisions by McDermott, Beane, and probably others higher up the corporate food chain that resulted in the Bills starting the season with Nathan Peterman under center and with non-NFL caliber OL and receivers.  When Allen got hurt, the Bills brass failed to bring in a competent veteran QB for a month!  Moreover, the Bills supposed QB coach hadn't actually coached QBs in 30+ years. 

 

When Beane corrected all three of those serious deficits in 2019, including bringing in almost all new offensive assistants, the team improved significantly.   They were still thin on talent but at least the starters were generally better than waiver wire refugees.   With the continued development of current offensive players and the 2020 additions, the Bills finally have enough talent to enable Daboll to be judged fairly.   I don't think that the Bills offense will ever resemble the Chiefs' offense but that's again on the FO and HC not the OC.

 

 

[ghostwriter]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

"Obviously, there is a bit of a difference between a 20-season veteran like Brady and the younger players of a rebuilding team. The reported result: confusion among those players and complaints that O’Shea wasn’t doing a good job of teaching the playbook.

One player told the Herald that veteran quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick ended up taking more active role running the offense. The Harvard graduate reportedly had no major issues understanding the playbook."

 

Fitz had no problem... the rest of the offensive players might have had difficulty adapting to that scheme though. Probably why O'Shea is gone. 

 

Look at what the Dolphins managed to do near the end of the 2019 season. They beat the Eagles in week 13, 37-31. A team that pounded Buffalo week 8, 31-13 and it wasn't even close. Buffalo was dominated by Philly on both sides of the ball. 

 

For the last game of the regular season, Miami also went up to New England and beat the Patriots 27-24 in one of my favorite games of the 2019 season. Along with the Titans beating the Patriots in New England in that WC playoff game 20-13. 

 

 

Anyway, when you consider that Josh Allen is a very, very bright young man. Daboll was coaching him very hard as he was yelling at him on the sidelines after some plays. Things changed for the better when Daboll went up into the booth to help Allen recognize what the opposing defense was doing before setting protections, calling the play. I also think this helped Daboll in seeing what the defense was about to do and call the appropriate play. 

 

Josh Allen has had very limited exposure to NFL offensive minds and Daboll is teaching him a very brilliant, complex offense. Now some might realize just how important it is to have a veteran QB in camp to help the younger QB's adjust to the NFL. 

 

My take is that Daboll is also setting up a very complex passing offense much like the Patriots run and he hasn't had an experienced veteran QB running those plays. Josh Allen for 2020 going into his third season. Brian Daboll 6 years exp as an NFL OC, his passing offenses in yards, 32nd, 29th, 23rd, 32nd, 31st, 26th. 

 

2018 Wonderlic scores, Fitz had a 48 and is a 15 year veteran. 

Josh Allen (Wyoming): 37

Josh Rosen (UCLA): 29

Sam Darnold (USC): 28

Baker Mayfield (Oklahoma): 25

Lamar Jackson (Louisville): 13

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767339-report-josh-allen-josh-rosen-top-wonderlic-scores-for-2018-nfl-draft-qbs

 

 

I wasn’t aware that Josh Allen scores a 37 on the Wonderlic, that’s incredible.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

I wasn’t aware that Josh Allen scores a 37 on the Wonderlic, that’s incredible.

Yes, but 20 points of it is awarded for scrambling on busted plays.  ?

[Rochesterfan]

28 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Seems like this would be on Flores, not O’Shea. Flores knew what offense he was bringing to the table when he hired him. Anyway I’m surprised Brady didn’t find a way to grab him and bring him down to Tampa. 

 

I think that is Bruce Arians team and offense.  They do not want to have to teach the Bucs this type of system for the 2 years Brady will be there.

 

As we have seen with the system in NE it took years to install and get guys up to speed, but patient was a virtue as once guys are fluent- there are so many things you can do.

 

You just can’t expect 1st/2nd year guys in the system to be as nuanced as multi-year vets.  

[HOUSE]

Lets face it, The Dolphins are a train wreck, this guy should be happy to leave.

[vincec]

3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

The thing is he hasn't but some who do not like Fitz keep saying that.

 

So, to be more precise: 

In 12 years as NFL OC or HC. His QBs have been:

 

Fitz for 5 years,

Tyler Thigpen for 1 year

Jay Fielder for 2 years,

Troy Aikman for 2 years (retired after following season)

Mike Tomczak

Kordell Stewart

 

So it's not just Fitz. He has had mediocre to bad QBs his entire time. Some of that is his own doing so you can't absolve him of responsibility, but I am interested in seeing how he does with Tua.

Edited May 23, 2020 by vincec

[NoHuddleKelly12]

12 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

I wonder who else in the AFCE uses a similarly complex and difficult-to-learn offensive playbook from the NE/E-P tree?

 

Sure do feel sorry for that team, I'll tell ya...

The thought crossed my mind lol, although maybe we have smarter players on par?  

[Bob in STL]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

No it’s really not. Results matter, and to through 2 years the results haven’t really been there. 

The results have not been great but look at the talent on offense.   Peterman at QB, Allen playing as a rookie.   The 2018 OL was terrible. The WR corps was so lean that some people think Duke Williams is an NFL starter. 
 

Now in 2020 we finally have a stable and solid OL, quality WRs, good potential at TE, and a young and dynamic 1-2 punch at RB.  Allen going into year 3 with the same system, same OC, is a good thing.  

[machine gun kelly]

Bailey will get a lot of Fitz, and he is good at knowing the aptitude’s of his players and catering the team to those strengths, aka. Spiller.  They still have with all of their spending and draft picks holes on all three sides of the ball, so if Tua takes over in the second half of the year, they may be good, but not as good as us.

[Happy]

7 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

Fitz had no problem... the rest of the offensive players might have had difficulty adapting to that scheme though. Probably why O'Shea is gone. 

 

Fitz, beside being a very intelligent guy, has been playing pro football for what....13 years?  He can grasp these complex plays.  Josh, not so much as this was really the first year the coaching staff committed to him as a starter.  I think Josh was drinking from a firehose, either by design or not.

4 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

 

Possibly.  However, when your other ten players are performing 'Swan Lake' on the field, and you still run Gore straight up the middle, the complexity is blunted.

 

Playcalling was another problem...

[Xwnyer]

13 hours ago, Warcodered said:

A very complicated playbook could be very rough for them this year shortened offseason an all the new starters they've got.

plus learning without someone whispering in the quarterbacks ear make it even more difficult ?