Dallas 175 million 5 year offer to Prescott

[teef]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:45 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

First Of all, salute to using a cross racial comparison.  Very impressive.

 

and I get that comparison.  I think Dak is better and more accomplished at a much younger age than Cousins (Cousins won his first playoff game at 31, Dak at 25).  And I would not be shocked if Dak was a QB of a champion one day.  He’s good but probably not great.  
 

I think the bigger problem is how much qbs get paid compared to the rest of team.  Like Jimmy G wasn’t close to the best player on the 49ers but got paid a lot of money before he really accomplished anything.  If I was other positions, I’d be pissed at what average qbs are getting paid.  

 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, hjnick said:

 

Let's see, he's had one of the best OLines, RB, WRs in the game.  Plays in one of the crappiest divisions.

 

Wants to get paid more than Russel Wilson?  (yeah, yeah, QB's just keep getting paid more and more, I get it.)

 

If everyone LOVES Dak, I could have gotten 2 first round picks for him easily then.   Then I would have picked my heir in the draft and played Andy Dalton this year.

 

How many more games would Dak win vs. if Andy Dalton started for the Cowboys?  Andy Dalton is a bus driver too (not glorified though).  1 maybe 2 more games.  With Dalton they would rely on Zeke more and pound the football.

 

It's a great debate, but Dak's gonna find out just like Jared Goff found out... When you take the majority of the money, the quality of the other positions suffer, especially offensive line.  Their defense is already swiss cheese.  

 

I live in Texas and unfortunately have to listen to cowboys sports radio and watch their games.  Their offense was not good in the 1st halves of games most of the time.  They shut down the running game in the 2nd half and passed most of the time, padding Daks stats.

 

Put any good bus drivers with his offense last year and they win 8 games IMO.

 

Hell, I hope Dallas spends whatever it takes to sign Dak.  Hell, give him 38MIL/yr for all I care.  Hold out Dakky boy for all you can squeeze from Jerry.

 

 

 

 

If you believe this you haven’t been paying attention. Collins, Smith and Martin are under contract for multiple years. They just drafted Biadasz to play center since Frederick retired. Why is the OL suffering? Its the same guys for at least 3 seasons.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, hjnick said:

Well... Cowboys are estimated to be 4.1 mil under the cap and Dak right now is going to make 31.4 MIL... he wants 35MIL...  so that cuts 3.6MIL

 

So that leaves 500,000 left....oh by the way, they haven't signed any of their draft picks yet... 

 

** IF he signs, I'm sure Dak will sign a cap friendly deal this year and JUST get in under the cap... Probably.

 

They can easily sign him without increasing the cap hit this year. In fact they can probably sign him and lower his hit for this year. They will give him a ton of new money up front and while it will be spread out for cap purposes in terms of actual cash in his hand Dak will get that now. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They can easily sign him without increasing the cap hit this year. In fact they can probably sign him and lower his hit for this year. They will give him a ton of new money up front and while it will be spread out for cap purposes in terms of actual cash in his hand Dak will get that now. 

We all need to understand that “average per year” does not equate to “cap hit per year.” In terms of roster building the cap hit is what matters when trying to retain everyone else. As an example Amari Cooper averages $20M a year. His cap hit this year is $12M.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Plano]

On 5/23/2020 at 12:13 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

Welp, it’s been fun guys but I just can’t anymore. ??

sorry you have a man-crush on him.

 

It's the truth. He's not that good. He is getting over-valued. I could name 20 QB's I'd rather have over him. one of them is his current backup.

Dak is whack

[BuffaloMatt]

On 5/22/2020 at 1:28 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

1) QBs wins are the most overrated stat.  No matter how we try to do it, football is the ultimate team game.  It’s one if the reasons I’m not sold on Allen.  I think a lot of QbS could have got us to the playoffs last year

 

2) Dak is 40-24 and delivered the only playoff Dallas win in 20 years.i think he is better than Goff, Tannehill and just as good as Wentz (who can’t stay healthy).  If those dudes can get paid, he should too. 

I get it. But he would be getting paid on this deal. Paid well and job security. Your new deal does not always need aways need to be the top number. That said enjoy your weekend Biscuit. I look forward to when we can discuss the Bills!!!

[Kirby Jackson]

21 minutes ago, Plano said:

sorry you have a man-crush on him.

 

It's the truth. He's not that good. He is getting over-valued. I could name 20 QB's I'd rather have over him. one of them is his current backup.

Dak is whack

I honestly don’t think Dak is great. He’s certainly very good and there are a lot metrics to support it. Saying 20 QBs are better doesn’t make it true. There is plenty of quantifiable data to support him being a top 10ish QB. He is 40-24 as a starter and has 118 TDs to 45 turnovers. At any rate though go ahead and name the 20 QBs that are better and make sure to include Dalton.

[GunnerBill]

41 minutes ago, Plano said:

sorry you have a man-crush on him.

 

It's the truth. He's not that good. He is getting over-valued. I could name 20 QB's I'd rather have over him. one of them is his current backup.

Dak is whack

 

Yea. You are wrong. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

22 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s not on the QB that’s on coaching. That tells me that you lost every close game that you were in. That’s execution. That’s details. That’s in game decisions. There biggest loss of the year was to the Bills by 11. They were 1-6 in games decided by 1 score or less and 0-5 in games decided by 7 points or less. That’s Garrett. That’s how you end up with a +113 point differential and a .500 record. 

Agreed that the Cowboys were not well coached.  And Jason Garrett was weak.  But its also on the QB.  He is the leader of the offense and the offense did not get it done in many of their losses.  Look at the losses against Buffalo Jets Philly (away) Saints and Pats.  Their offense was lousy.  Not a lot better against Minnesota or Chicago either.  A lot of that is on the QB.  You can drive your narrative however you want to spin it.  I did not say the guy sucks.  My point is that way too much hype is made about an above avg QB (at best) who wilts under pressure.  And I believe the contract offer is on the high end of reasonable anyways.  And when your QB is balking at signing it, it shows that he is not about the team.  Because the more he wants, the less there is available to pay other positions.  And when you are paying Zeke Cooper and Prescott, you are going to come up short in other places.  Jerry Jones wants star power as much as wins.  That is the Cowboy way.  A lot of flash, and not much more.  

[Kirby Jackson]

13 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Agreed that the Cowboys were not well coached.  And Jason Garrett was weak.  But its also on the QB.  He is the leader of the offense and the offense did not get it done in many of their losses.  Look at the losses against Buffalo Jets Philly (away) Saints and Pats.  Their offense was lousy.  Not a lot better against Minnesota or Chicago either.  A lot of that is on the QB.  You can drive your narrative however you want to spin it.  I did not say the guy sucks.  My point is that way too much hype is made about an above avg QB (at best) who wilts under pressure.  And I believe the contract offer is on the high end of reasonable anyways.  And when your QB is balking at signing it, it shows that he is not about the team.  Because the more he wants, the less there is available to pay other positions.  And when you are paying Zeke Cooper and Prescott, you are going to come up short in other places.  Jerry Jones wants star power as much as wins.  That is the Cowboy way.  A lot of flash, and not much more.  

They lost 4 games when scoring 22 plus points. For comparison sake the Bills won every game when they scored at least 18 points. That’s coaching. 
 

The “about the team“ argument is not valid. This isn’t little league. This is their career!! Every single one of us wants to get as much as we can at our job. There is not an exception amongst us. We don’t begrudge the lawyer that goes to another firm for more money because he isn’t putting the “team” at his old firm first. We need to stop holding athletes to the same double standard. Dak made an average of $1.225M in each of his 4 years as a starter ($4.9M total) and has produced a 40-24 record. He’s been more than fair when it comes to money. Now, like with all good QBs, it’s his turn to get paid. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[BuffaloMatt]

47 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They lost 4 games when scoring 22 plus points. For comparison sake the Bills won every game when they scored at least 18 points. That’s coaching. 
 

The “about the team“ argument is not valid. This isn’t little league. This is their career!! Every single one of us wants to get as much as we can at our job. There is not an exception amongst us. We don’t begrudge the lawyer that goes to another firm for more money because he isn’t putting the “team” at his old firm first. We need to stop holding athletes to the same double standard. Dak made an average of $1.225M in each of his 4 years as a starter ($4.9M total) and has produced a 40-24 record. He’s been more than fair when it comes to money. Now, like with all good QBs, it’s his turn to get paid. 

If a lawyer wants to be at a good firm he can get paid a competitive salary that isn't the highest salary for lawyers in his position. DP would be getting paid a very competitive salary. I know more people who have chased a higher pay check only to leave that position and regret that they did not stay where they were. I suspect DP will not put the ego down, understand that he is 1 of 32 starting QBs in the NFL, take the $$, and be a leader. Instead, this will be the beginning of the end for him in Dallas. 

[CookieG]

23 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They lost 4 games when scoring 22 plus points. For comparison sake the Bills won every game when they scored at least 18 points. That’s coaching. 
 

 

Noooo, that's 2016 Tyrod.  The Bills lost 6, count 'em 6 games in 2016 when scoring 24 points or more. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

 

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

The “about the team“ argument is not valid. This isn’t little league. This is their career!! Every single one of us wants to get as much as we can at our job. There is not an exception amongst us. We don’t begrudge the lawyer that goes to another firm for more money because he isn’t putting the “team” at his old firm first. We need to stop holding athletes to the same double standard. Dak made an average of $1.225M in each of his 4 years as a starter ($4.9M total) and has produced a 40-24 record. He’s been more than fair when it comes to money. Now, like with all good QBs, it’s his turn to get paid. 

idk, this is becoming a common argument when contracts come up for QBs who aren't at the Brady/Brees (and now..Mahomes) level.  It came up with guys like Dalton, Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, etc. The question often comes up with "how far can this guy take us?" It did with Alex Smith and Dalton, who had pretty spotty playoff records. How much DO you pay a guy that might get you to the playoffs, but hasn't shown the ability to get you very far once you are there. I don't know if there is an easy answer, unless you have Brady/Brees (and now..Mahomes).

 

As far as paying him or him getting paid, let's not pretend that he's being offered 3 or 4 million a year. I mean...the Boys are offering $35 million a year for 5 years.  Currently, it is more than any other QB in the league... and well more than guys who have a ring and guys who have been to the dance. Are the Boys being unreasonable for offering that amount for a guy that's won 1 playoff game in 4 years?  Its tough to say they are, at least for me.

 

But I tend not to worry about what the Boys are doing.  Im more worried about whether the BIlls' O can get out of the bottom third O's in the league. There's only so much you can worry about in life. 

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, BuffaloMatt said:

If a lawyer wants to be at a good firm he can get paid a competitive salary that isn't the highest salary for lawyers in his position. DP would be getting paid a very competitive salary. I know more people who have chased a higher pay check only to leave that position and regret that they did not stay where they were. I suspect DP will not put the ego down, understand that he is 1 of 32 starting QBs in the NFL, take the $$, and be a leader. Instead, this will be the beginning of the end for him in Dallas. 

I keep asking but who is Dallas going to lose when Dak signs his contract? 9 of their best 10 players are under contract for at least the next 3 years. Dallas isn’t making any sacrifices to pay Dak. He knows that. Honestly it was pretty brilliant to sign last. Usually a QB signs first and the team tries to leverage other players coming back to get the QB to take less. The Cowboys have done everyone else first except Vander Esch and he will be next year.

1 minute ago, CookieG said:

Noooo, that's 2016 Tyrod.  The Bills lost 6, count 'em 6 games in 2016 when scoring 24 points or more. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

 

idk, this is becoming a common argument when contracts come up for QBs who aren't at the Brady/Brees (and now..Mahomes) level.  It came up with guys like Dalton, Alex Smith, Kirk Cousins, etc. The question often comes up with "how far can this guy take us?" It did with Alex Smith and Dalton, who had pretty spotty playoff records. How much DO you pay a guy that might get you to the playoffs, but hasn't shown the ability to get you very far once you are there. I don't know if there is an easy answer, unless you have Brady/Brees (and now..Mahomes).

 

As far as paying him or him getting paid, let's not pretend that he's being offered 3 or 4 million a year. I mean...the Boys are offering $35 million a year for 5 years.  Currently, it is more than any other QB in the league... and well more than guys who have a ring and guys who have been to the dance. Are the Boys being unreasonable for offering that amount for a guy that's won 1 playoff game in 4 years?  Its tough to say they are, at least for me.

 

But I tend not to worry about what the Boys are doing.  Im more worried about whether the BIlls' O can get out of the bottom third O's in the league. There's only so much you can worry about in life. 

 

 

Dak wants 4 years. The Cowboys want 5. That’s the holdup.

[CookieG]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

Dak wants 4 years. The Cowboys want 5. That’s the holdup.

Yeah, I know it is.  Shrugs. 

 

If he's that confident in his market price, he can just take the $31 million for this year and play it out and wait until next year. Then he either gets tagged again at a 20% raise or he goes to the open market.

 

Maybe that's his end game, again, idk.

 

 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, CookieG said:

Yeah, I know it is.  Shrugs. 

 

If he's that confident in his market price, he can just take the $31 million for this year and play it out and wait until next year. Then he either gets tagged again at a 20% raise or he goes to the open market.

 

Maybe that's his end game, again, idk.

 

 

It may be. It’s the old Kirk Cousins strategy. It’s certainly riskier now with the uncertainty of 2020 revenue. The cap goes up every year but maybe not now? 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They lost 4 games when scoring 22 plus points. For comparison sake the Bills won every game when they scored at least 18 points. That’s coaching. 

 

The also lost 4 games where they scored 15 points or less. Their defense wasn't bad last year. They were 11th in points allowed. It's not like those Saints teams a few years ago where the defense made it impossible to win even with Brees at the helm.

 

Everyone knows the defense was the strength of the Bills last year. We also had a mediocre at best offense around Josh Allen. We're not a good comparison to the Cowboys. Maybe coaching sunk them but are we already claiming McDermott and Daboll are better at coaching offense? What is the evidence for that?

 

This discussion has gotten too polarized. Some people here think Dak is just a backup which is obviously wrong. But there are some people here who think it's crazy to even question paying him. The fact is he led a team to 8-8 and he's looking for over $35 million per year. If that is Allen in 3 years we'll be having the same conversation whether his stats are good or not.

 

Right or wrong people want to pay the QBs that win. That's not to say Dak was solely responsible for the record last year. You just can't try to convince me he takes no responsibility for their season. They had a pretty easy schedule - they were in the worst division in the NFC, and they played the AFC East and NFC North. Their defense was 11th in points allowed. The offensive roster around Dak was easily top 5 in the NFL. All they needed was a 9-7 record and they couldnt do it.

 

They should be a better team this year. New coaching staff and they added Ceedee Lamb. This is a good year for Dak to prove he is a championship caliber QB.

Edited May 24, 2020 by HappyDays

[Kirby Jackson]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

The also lost 4 games where they scored 15 points or less. Their defense wasn't bad last year. They were 11th in points allowed. It's not like those Saints teams a few years ago where the defense made it impossible to win even with Brees at the helm.

 

Everyone knows the defense was the strength of the Bills last year. We also had a mediocre at best offense around Josh Allen. We're not a good comparison to the Cowboys. Maybe coaching sunk them but are we already claiming McDermott and Daboll are better at coaching offense? What is the evidence for that?

 

This discussion has gotten too polarized. Some people here think Dak is just a backup which is obviously wrong. But there are some people here who think it's crazy to even question paying him. The fact is he led a team to 8-8 and he's looking for over $35 million per year. If that is Allen in 3 years we'll be having the same conversation whether his stats are good or not.

 

Right or wrong people want to pay the QBs that win. That's not to say Dak was solely responsible for the record last year. You just can't try to convince me he takes no responsibility for their season. They had a pretty easy schedule - they were in the worst division in the NFC, and they played the AFC East and NFC North. Their defense was 11th in points allowed. The offensive roster around Dak was easily top 5 in the NFL. All they needed was a 9-7 record and they couldnt do it.

 

They should be a better team this year. New coaching staff and they added Ceedee Lamb. This is a good year for Dak to prove he is a championship caliber QB.

Just to be clear I’m not sure he is a championship caliber QB. I’ve also been pretty clear that at this point he’s more deserving of the big contract than Wentz, Goff, Jimmy G, Tannehill, etc.. We didn’t object nearly as much to them getting paid yet they are inferior players. Dak being with the Cowboys is a big reason why he is being downplayed here. 
 

I was thinking about starting a thread to rank the QBs for 2020 and then ranking the QBs over the next 5 years. I figured that I’d rather be in the pool though than debating between who will be better in 5 years Goff or Jimmy G. It’s interesting to think about though and is relevant to the discussion. I would think that Dak would be in the top 10 in both groups but don’t think top 5 in either.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[HappyDays]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’ve also been pretty clear that at this point he’s more deserving of the big contract than Wentz, Goff, Jimmy G, Tannehill, etc.. We didn’t object nearly as much to them getting paid yet they are inferior players

 

There were threads on those extensions here and the consensus was that they were overpaid. Dak does get more attention because he plays for the Cowboys but I don't agree that he is getting unbalanced treatment. I agree Dak is better than everyone on that list above. I still would not want to extend him until after this year.

[ColoradoBills]

The Cowboys will most likely sign Dak and will get under the cap this season with no problems.

BUT, anyone thinking that their cap situation going forward is "ideal" is not being honest.

Cowboys are extremely top heavy next couple of years.

2021 Cap Hits below.

 

Dak:  Somewhere around 35 Million.

Cooper:  22 Million

Lawrence:  22 Million

Martin:  15 Million

Elliot:  14 Million

Their 2 Tackles:  25 Million

 

This is not typical of NFL roster construction.  

It's simple math.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cap/2021/

[Kirby Jackson]

28 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

The Cowboys will most likely sign Dak and will get under the cap this season with no problems.

BUT, anyone thinking that their cap situation going forward is "ideal" is not being honest.

Cowboys are extremely top heavy next couple of years.

2021 Cap Hits below.

 

Dak:  Somewhere around 35 Million.

Cooper:  22 Million

Lawrence:  22 Million

Martin:  15 Million

Elliot:  14 Million

Their 2 Tackles:  25 Million

 

This is not typical of NFL roster construction.  

It's simple math.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cap/2021/

 But they’ve drafted extremely well so it offsets it. They will have to continue to do so. They don’t have tough decisions to make on core players. The Bills example that I used earlier is that they have to use a guy like Vosean Joseph instead of paying AJ Klein $6M. The Cowboys aren’t going to have hardly any mid-priced vets. They are going to play young guys in those spots.
 

The Bills have a lot of guys like Klein, Murphy, Feliciano, Long, Norman, DiMarco, Nsekhe, Butler, Williams, etc.. that the Cowboys won’t have. Those are the types of guys that they will have to play young guys instead of. They aren’t in a position where they have to get rid of guys like Tre, Edmunds, Milano, Diggs, Etc... Those types of players are already under contract for multiple years. The Cowboys have 7 players on the top 100 that Prisco just did. All 7 of those guys will be under contract for at least 3 more years once Dak signs. Their best players aren’t going anywhere. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kirby Jackson