Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 On 5/21/2020 at 1:10 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: So mahomes... what 200M? Mahomes could probably sign a 300MM deal if he really wanted to force the Chiefs hands. Or he could sign two year deals at around $100 million per deal. It would be career suicide though in terms of winning Super Bowls. But he would probably still break a lot of records along the way to never seeing another super bowl. But yeah, $200MM on a 5 year extension is probably around what Mahomes will settle for to at least keep the team somewhat competitive around him.
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 I think you could say Dak is in a prove it year. Last year was supposed to be the prove it year to get the big deal. Problem is we seem to have as many questions as answers at this point. If I am the Jones' I consider letting him play on the franchise tag. Little risk that he will hold out. Has a QB ever held out into the season? Heck, have they ever held out into training camp? QB is one of those positions, viewed as the leader of the team, where you pretty much can't do that. An unwritten rule in a way.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 37 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said: Kirby (btw a very good and underrated DB for the Bills back in the 90's) Go look at who the Cowboys beat big last season and then get back to me on their point differential.. They did very well against the trash of the NFL last year. The good teams, not so much. Dak is overrated! That’s not on the QB that’s on coaching. That tells me that you lost every close game that you were in. That’s execution. That’s details. That’s in game decisions. There biggest loss of the year was to the Bills by 11. They were 1-6 in games decided by 1 score or less and 0-5 in games decided by 7 points or less. That’s Garrett. That’s how you end up with a +113 point differential and a .500 record. 2
y2zipper Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That’s not on the QB that’s on coaching. That tells me that you lost every close game that you were in. That’s execution. That’s details. That’s in game decisions. There biggest loss of the year was to the Bills by 11. They were 1-6 in games decided by 1 score or less and 0-5 in games decided by 7 points or less. That’s Garrett. That’s how you end up with a +113 point differential and a .500 record. A lot of that is also bad luck too. The Cowboys should progress to the mean in one score game record and their defense should get more turnovers just on random variance. Dak's efficiency is good and has never particularly swung based on players on lot off the field and he's better than average against the blitz. What did change in 2019 is that Dallas asked him to throw a lot more. It's the opposite end of the spectrum as to why New England won't win as much as they did last season. One thing that's fairly remarkable about Buffalo's year is that random variance didn't particularly alter what they did. Buffalo needs better QB play to progress. 2
Billl Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said: I think you could say Dak is in a prove it year. Last year was supposed to be the prove it year to get the big deal. Problem is we seem to have as many questions as answers at this point. If I am the Jones' I consider letting him play on the franchise tag. Little risk that he will hold out. Has a QB ever held out into the season? Heck, have they ever held out into training camp? QB is one of those positions, viewed as the leader of the team, where you pretty much can't do that. An unwritten rule in a way. What is left to prove? If 33 total TDs, 11 INTs, and 5200 yards of total offense don’t ‘prove it’ then nothing will. There’s not a team in the NFL that wouldn’t take those numbers from their QB in 2020. 1
mjd1001 Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 I just don't see him as Elite. Good to very good? Yes but not elite. I really don't want to pay my QB 14% of the cap (or above) unless he is elite. You can...and others have, but when you take a 'very good' QB like Prescott and pay him elite money, you end up with a team that is likely going to be good, good enough to be a playoff team most years, but never good enough to be the best team.
SirAndrew Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said: I just don't see him as Elite. Good to very good? Yes but not elite. I really don't want to pay my QB 14% of the cap (or above) unless he is elite. You can...and others have, but when you take a 'very good' QB like Prescott and pay him elite money, you end up with a team that is likely going to be good, good enough to be a playoff team most years, but never good enough to be the best team. Agree, Prescott is a very good QB with the Cowboys. I’d really like to see how he’d play elsewhere. Prescott’s in an ideal situation with Dallas, and I’m not convinced he wouldn’t be very average elsewhere. QB of the Cowboys has always been one of the more interesting positions in all of sports. They are quickly elevated to greatness by fans/media when they have early success, and receive unlimited criticism when they struggle. Dak’s prestige has been elevated by having early success in one of the marquee positions in sports.
DCofNC Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 All the people here arguing Dak sucks seem to think there's no way the Bills can let Allen walk. Hysterical. Allen isn't even in the conversation ( outside of Buffalo) to be a top 10 QB, most think hes bottom 10 to be clear, but Dak sucks. Look Dak is better than average and far from elite, but as a guy who hasn't made ***** yet, I'd be holding out for every penny too. If Dallas won't give it to him (btw their leverage is gone after tagging him) then fine, gef tagged again next year and pay him 37M, then try to ask him to take less for longer.. the ball is in his court, why flinch? 1
Big Turk Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 Prescott needs to decide whether he wants the most he can get or winning championships because likely he won't get both. Eating up the cap that much will limit the talent Dallas can out around him. 3 hours ago, DCofNC said: All the people here arguing Dak sucks seem to think there's no way the Bills can let Allen walk. Hysterical. Allen isn't even in the conversation ( outside of Buffalo) to be a top 10 QB, most think hes bottom 10 to be clear, but Dak sucks. Look Dak is better than average and far from elite, but as a guy who hasn't made ***** yet, I'd be holding out for every penny too. If Dallas won't give it to him (btw their leverage is gone after tagging him) then fine, gef tagged again next year and pay him 37M, then try to ask him to take less for longer.. the ball is in his court, why flinch? Who looked better when we played last year? No contest it was Allen. 1
Augie Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Prescott needs to decide whether he wants the most he can get or winning championships because likely he won't get both. Eating up the cap that much will limit the talent Dallas can out around him. Who looked better when we played last year? No contest it was Allen. I hope I would take less money with more guaranteed. I mean, If I have a $150 mil contract (for a relatively small portion of my career), another $50 mil isn’t really going to change my life. I’d be able to get by on that. Winning more because we can afford more talent would mean more to me than the extra money, I hope. Unfortunately, I have yet to be put in the position to make that choice, but I’m open to offers! Don’t get me wrong, he has EVERY right to ask for whatever he wants. I’m NOT telling anyone what to do, but it’s just what I hope I would do. I hope Josh gets to face that dilemma at some point (that would be a VERY good thing!) and feels like I do. 1
Matt_In_NH Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 If Allen becomes who we are hoping for he will get 200 million
GunnerBill Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 5 hours ago, mjd1001 said: I just don't see him as Elite. Good to very good? Yes but not elite. I really don't want to pay my QB 14% of the cap (or above) unless he is elite. You can...and others have, but when you take a 'very good' QB like Prescott and pay him elite money, you end up with a team that is likely going to be good, good enough to be a playoff team most years, but never good enough to be the best team. You don't want to? Oh good. Well don't then. What is the alternative? This is the point people are missing. Everyone keeps saying "fine pay Mahomes and Wilson and Rodgers but don't pay anyone else top end money". The problem is one franchise cannot unilaterally reset the market in that way. If Dallas doesn't pay Dak someone else will. Like when Washington didn't pay Cousins. You either pay your Quarterback what the market dictates or you shout "stop the world I want to get off." And it is easy to say go and find a bridge guy like Dalton or Cam or go and draft a guy like the Redskins did with Haskins but all of those are voluntarily weakening your hand at the most important position on the field. Unless it is 26 or 27 franchises acting together saying "okay we don't have one of the top 5 or 6 guys, but let's all agree not to pay anyone else within $10m of what those top guys are getting so that we can all build out rosters elsewhere" and then all of them sticking to it this is what we are stuck with. It is the market. You either pay or you opt out of the market and risk the absolute irrelevance that the Redskins are. There is no viable third way. I hope Josh proves to be a top 5 guy in the next two seasons. Because if he is in the next bracket - that 6-12 range - there are going to be fights at dawn on this message board about whether to pay him a top 3 or 4 salary (which is what he will demand). When you find a franchise Quarterback you pay them, because they are rare and precious. This fan base of all fan bases should understand that. 2
Malazan Posted May 23, 2020 Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Like when Washington didn't pay Cousins. A wise decision for the vikings too. They have a better record...er...gone further in the playoffs...er..It's just a wise decision for them ok. Edited May 24, 2020 by jeremy2020 2
Kirby Jackson Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) I wish that we had this discussion about a “Dak level QB” that didn’t play for the Cowboys. The “Cowboys hate“ clouds this whole discussion and makes people irrational. If we changed the conversation to “pay Carson Wentz” I wonder what the conversation would look like? I definitely think Dak is the better player today than Wentz. It would be tough to argue otherwise. At the same time people here don’t have an emotional investment in hating the Eagles. It would probably make for a more productive discussion. Instead we have people calling a 26 year-old, with a 40-24 record, coming of a season of 4902 yard with 33 total TDs and 11 INTs a “glorified backup.” Dak is a very good to great QB. We can’t have a real discussion until people accept that. At that point we can decide on the value of a guy that’s “very good” and have a real conversation. Edited May 24, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 2
GoBills808 Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, jeremy2020 said: A wise decision. They have a better record...er...gone further in the playoffs...er..It's just a wise decision for them ok. Yeah and the Super Bowl champion Minnesota Vikings are looking like geniuses too. 1
Malazan Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Yeah and the Super Bowl champion Minnesota Vikings are looking like geniuses too. I guess it wasn't clear..I meant the vikings.
GoBills808 Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 Just now, jeremy2020 said: I guess it wasn't clear..I meant the vikings. Gotcha, yes I thought you were talking about Washington
hjnick Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 10:51 AM, Kirby Jackson said: Didn’t realize that. Well I take back all of the good things that I said then. I thought he was a QB with a 40-24 record but I guess I’m wrong. They should just let him walk. You can find a lot of guys to drive a bus. Let's see, he's had one of the best OLines, RB, WRs in the game. Plays in one of the crappiest divisions. Wants to get paid more than Russel Wilson? (yeah, yeah, QB's just keep getting paid more and more, I get it.) If everyone LOVES Dak, I could have gotten 2 first round picks for him easily then. Then I would have picked my heir in the draft and played Andy Dalton this year. How many more games would Dak win vs. if Andy Dalton started for the Cowboys? Andy Dalton is a bus driver too (not glorified though). 1 maybe 2 more games. With Dalton they would rely on Zeke more and pound the football. It's a great debate, but Dak's gonna find out just like Jared Goff found out... When you take the majority of the money, the quality of the other positions suffer, especially offensive line. Their defense is already swiss cheese. I live in Texas and unfortunately have to listen to cowboys sports radio and watch their games. Their offense was not good in the 1st halves of games most of the time. They shut down the running game in the 2nd half and passed most of the time, padding Daks stats. Put any good bus drivers with his offense last year and they win 8 games IMO. Hell, I hope Dallas spends whatever it takes to sign Dak. Hell, give him 38MIL/yr for all I care. Hold out Dakky boy for all you can squeeze from Jerry. 1 1
hjnick Posted May 24, 2020 Posted May 24, 2020 On 5/22/2020 at 11:53 AM, FireChans said: WHO? WHO DO THEY HAVE TO CUT? Please look at the roster before saying this stuff. Well... Cowboys are estimated to be 4.1 mil under the cap and Dak right now is going to make 31.4 MIL... he wants 35MIL... so that cuts 3.6MIL So that leaves 500,000 left....oh by the way, they haven't signed any of their draft picks yet... ** IF he signs, I'm sure Dak will sign a cap friendly deal this year and JUST get in under the cap... Probably.
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