Dallas 175 million 5 year offer to Prescott

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They were better with Case Keenum the year before Kirk Cousins.  So you are wrong, they are not pining for those days...they just wish Kirk could do as good a job as crap QB Keenum.  

 

 

Where did I compare the QB talent wise?  I said the decision was the same.  Neither guy was getting them to the promise land.  So you dont over pay the guy you KNOW is not the man.  And Kirk has PROVEN that he is NOT anything special by doing the same Keenum did with less results and more talent around him.

 

He has not in anyway shape or form made Minny better than they were the year before him.  Do I think Kirk is better QB than Keenum, sure, but the results and performance are not there to support that belief.

Your argument is supported by so much hindsight it should come with a rear view mirror. 

 

You would have argued the Colts should have let Peyton Manning walk after his first 4 years.

[Alphadawg7]

52 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Bro don’t even start on knowing QB’s. You thought Tyrod was the guy long after the rest of the NFL knew he was nothing. Two NFL franchises believed Cousins had enough talent to be a SB QB.

Dude you need help remembering.  I never said he WAS the guy.  That’s a flat out lie.   I said he wasn’t as bad as people exaggerated him to be, which he wasn’t, and that fix our defense and we are a playoff team...which McD did and we were.   And then I said after the playoff year TT had to be replaced next and entering the draft I had Baker (and i had Baker as the top QB long before anyone else did when people said he wasn’t even a second round pick) and Allen as one and two and told everyone Rosen sucks and Lamar was the real deal and even started a thread about making a case to stay put at 12 and take Lamar versus trading up into the top 5.

 

Sorry I will put my QB resume up against anyone’s. It’s not perfect, i hated the idea of drafting Mahomes at 10, and would have taken Watson over him if we stayed put, but I was all for Mahomes in second.  
 

I sure as hell will put my QB resume up against yours anytime.  And with just about any other analysis as well.  You love to take something someone said, twist it to mean something else, just so you can then attack it even though it’s not even what they said.  I mean it’s kind of your MO around here.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Dude you need help remembering.  I never said he WAS the guy.  That’s a flat out lie.   I said he wasn’t as bad as people exaggerated him to be, which he wasn’t, and that fix our defense and we are a playoff team...which McD did and we were.   And then I said after the playoff year TT had to be replaced next and entering the draft I had Baker (and i had Baker as the top QB long before anyone else did when people said he wasn’t even a second round pick) and Allen as one and two and told everyone Rosen sucks and Lamar was the real deal and even started a thread about making a case to stay put at 12 and take Lamar versus trading up into the top 5.

 

Sorry I will put my QB resume up against anyone’s. It’s not perfect, i hated the idea of drafting Mahomes at 10, and would have taken Watson over him if we stayed put, but I was all for Mahomes in second.  
 

I sure as hell will put my QB resume up against yours anytime.  And with just about any other analysis as well.  You love to take something someone said, twist it to mean something else, just so you can then attack it even though it’s not even what they said.  I mean it’s kind of your MO around here.

 

25 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Your argument is supported by so much hindsight it should come with a rear view mirror. 

 

You would have argued the Colts should have let Peyton Manning walk after his first 4 years.

 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Billl said:

Let’s blame the QB for losing to the 49ers.  He only went 21-29 passing against the best pass defense in football.  Never mind the fact that his team had 21 yards rushing and gave up 186 yards and 2 TDs on the ground.

I guess they were wise to think the guy who had 1 playoff win in his 13 year career when the other team didn’t get shutout was about to  blossom in his late 30s.  You see, Alex was very raw due to poor middle school coaching.  He was just about to hit his stride at age 38.

Well then there is always hope that “NEXT year” will be Dak and those Cowboys year!

[Mr. K]

Part of me wants him to leave the Cowpies only to stay in the division and destroy them for a few years. The other part of me hopes he gets his big deal and it hamstrings their salary cap. 

 

Go Bills!

[Plano]

11 hours ago, FireChans said:

Dallas has won more playoff games in the last two years than Buffalo in 20.

1? even if it's 2, big deal.

Dak is a joke. next.

 

He's a backup at best

[Augie]

13 minutes ago, Plano said:

1? even if it's 2, big deal.

Dak is a joke. next.

 

He's a backup at best

 

 

He’s not a backup at best, nor is he a top five QB. He’s in the middle somewhere, and certainly not worth the money he is seeking. They can’t keep the team around him that they need if they pay him what he wants. 

[Kirby Jackson]

36 minutes ago, Plano said:

1? even if it's 2, big deal.

Dak is a joke. next.

 

He's a backup at best

Welp, it’s been fun guys but I just can’t anymore. ??

[Orlando Buffalo]

18 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The "Dak isn't a winner" argument is a strange one. He has been an NFL QB for 4 years, after being taken in the 4th round of the draft. Last year was their worst record in that time at 8-8. He won two division titles in his first three years, and a playoff game. Did Dallas underachieve last year? Too right they did. But pinning all of that on Dak and then using that to suggest he can't win games that matter is absolutely nuts. I'd argue Dak was probably their second best player last year after Zack Martin.

Dak is a good qb not a great qb. he is the definition of a guy who will win when you put good talent around him(only a few are above this) therefore he will destroy his teams chance at winning if he demands this kind of money.

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Dak is a good qb not a great qb. he is the definition of a guy who will win when you put good talent around him(only a few are above this) therefore he will destroy his teams chance at winning if he demands this kind of money.

So the Cowboys front office couldn’t build a winner around him when he was making $600,000, but we’re to believe they can build one when he’s making $35,000,000 but not when he’s making $37,000,000?  I doubt it.  Get paid, Dak.  Jerry got $150,000,000 worth of QB play from Dak for about $6,000,000 over the last few seasons.  Don’t ask workers to sacrifice for the good of the business (the owners).  There’s not an owner in the world who would sacrifice a trophy to pay a player more.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Dak is a good qb not a great qb. he is the definition of a guy who will win when you put good talent around him(only a few are above this) therefore he will destroy his teams chance at winning if he demands this kind of money.

 

As has already been explained the beauty of this for Dallas is the "talent" is already around him and locked in. Added to that the Cowboys keep drafting well. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

So the Cowboys front office couldn’t build a winner around him when he was making $600,000, but we’re to believe they can build one when he’s making $35,000,000 but not when he’s making $37,000,000?  I doubt it.  Get paid, Dak.  Jerry got $150,000,000 worth of QB play from Dak for about $6,000,000 over the last few seasons.  Don’t ask workers to sacrifice for the good of the business (the owners).  There’s not an owner in the world who would sacrifice a trophy to pay a player more.

I am confused where I insinuated anything you are attacking me on. I never blamed him for getting his but it is a salary cap league and the Front office will not get better with 30 million less per year to deal with. All I said was that if he is 35+ million a year they will not be able to put a team around him that is championship quality because he is not the guy who makes those great around him.

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

As has already been explained the beauty of this for Dallas is the "talent" is already around him and locked in. Added to that the Cowboys keep drafting well. 

I think Dallas overpaid for Cooper and will likely regret the Zeke contract in the long run but I do not think they are that their talent currently is beating Baltimore, KC, Seattle, or San Fran. and his being paid so much makes it unlikely they catch those team.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I think Dallas overpaid for Cooper and will likely regret the Zeke contract in the long run but I do not think they are that their talent currently is beating Baltimore, KC, Seattle, or San Fran. and his being paid so much makes it unlikely they catch those team.

 

So I don't love the Cooper deal either, but both he and Zeke are basically only locked in for two years and then have easy outs. Again, this is the point Kirby and I have made in the other thread. The Dallas front office have done the same thing Brandon Beane is rightly getting credited for here - setting up contracts with the money early and maximum team flexibility late. I agree the Cowboys are less talented than Baltimore and Kansas City and Dak is less good than Russell Wilson (though overall their roster is way better than Seattle's). Honestly I think they are in a similar place to San Fran. The 49ers have a better tight end, D line and might even have the edge now at oline (it's close), but I am taking the Cowboys in pretty much most other spots (including Quarterback). 

[ChasBB]

Dak Prescott is a good QB and many teams would be glad to have him, but his QB talent is not worth this kind of money, imo.  There goes about 17% per year of your salary cap on ONE guy (averaged over 5 seasons).  QB is very important, but at the end of the day, he is still 1/11th of the offense.  He is not nearly as much of a "difference maker" compared to a guy like Mahomes.  He's not the kind of player who can single-handedly make everyone around him better.  The Cowboys will live to regret this contract if it goes through.  Just my opinion.  I could be wrong.

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am confused where I insinuated anything you are attacking me on. I never blamed him for getting his but it is a salary cap league and the Front office will not get better with 30 million less per year to deal with. All I said was that if he is 35+ million a year they will not be able to put a team around him that is championship quality because he is not the guy who makes those great around him.

I think Dallas overpaid for Cooper and will likely regret the Zeke contract in the long run but I do not think they are that their talent currently is beating Baltimore, KC, Seattle, or San Fran. and his being paid so much makes it unlikely they catch those team.

I agree with all of this.  Overpaid for Cooper and Zeke and now looking at doing the same for Dak.  I have not had a good read on exactly who Dak is.  He has some great stats - 2nd in NFL with over 4,900 passing yards - and he shows well with some advanced metrics.  So I had some time this AM and wanted to watch some football.

 

Thanks to the free NFL Game Pass I checked out his playoff win against Seattle from the 2018 season and his loss to the Jets in 2019.  I now have my read on him and it makes sense.  He’s Russel Wilson without the ability to make that beautiful downfield throw that puts a dagger into the heart of the opposing team.  He is very efficient short in spite of the fact that he sees a lot of tight coverage there because the defense knows that’s where he’s going.
 

He is not a top 8 QB, but he’s top 16 and you can win a lot of games with him.  The problem with him is that when things go wrong and he has to be more, he can’t.  There were 5 dropped passes in the Jets game.  That’s not on him, but being efficient short wasn’t going to make up for it.  Sometimes the QB has to elevate his team and Dak can’t do that.  We saw that last Thanksgiving.  Dallas should pump the brakes on this contract.  Honestly, I think the right move for them would be to franchise him for one or two seasons while looking for a QB who can be more. 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I agree with all of this.  Overpaid for Cooper and Zeke and now looking at doing the same for Dak.  I have not had a good read on exactly who Dak is.  He has some great stats - 2nd in NFL with over 4,900 passing yards - and he shows well with some advanced metrics.  So I had some time this AM and wanted to watch some football.

 

Thanks to the free NFL Game Pass I checked out his playoff win against Seattle from the 2018 season and his loss to the Jets in 2019.  I now have my read on him and it makes sense.  He’s Russel Wilson without the ability to make that beautiful downfield throw that puts a dagger into the heart of the opposing team.  He is very efficient short in spite of the fact that he sees a lot of tight coverage there because the defense knows that’s where he’s going.
 

He is not a top 8 QB, but he’s top 16 and you can win a lot of games with him.  The problem with him is that when things go wrong and he has to be more, he can’t.  There were 5 dropped passes in the Jets game.  That’s not on him, but being efficient short wasn’t going to make up for it.  Sometimes the QB has to elevate his team and Dak can’t do that.  We saw that last Thanksgiving.  Dallas should pump the brakes on this contract.  Honestly, I think the right move for them would be to franchise him for one or two seasons while looking for a QB who can be more. 

You know what’s crazy about Dak? Is he not really similar to Tony Romo at the same point? He’s a quality QB, a pro-bowlish QB but not a top 5 guy (at least at this point). I think that he’s closer to 8 than he is to 16 at this point but it’s a fair assessment.
 

The QB rankings are going to change some over the next couple of years too. You have Brady, Brees, Ben, Rivers, Ryan, and Rodgers winding down. You have Darnold, Allen, Tua, Lock, Jackson, Burrow, Baker, Watson, Mahomes, Jones and Murray coming up. Then you have Dak, Jimmy G, Wentz, Goff as young vets whose stories haven’t yet been written. In 2 years the top 10 QB list is going to look a lot different IMO. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...good to know that GRAND LARCENY is still legal in Texas...........

[Paup 1995MVP]

20 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

They could sign Cam Newton with Dalton as the backup.  Or let them battle it out for the starting gig.  

 

Would the Cowboys really be any worse off with a combo of Cam and Dalton at QB than with Dak and Dalton?  I don't think so personally, and honestly, given the way this team has underachieved in Daks best seasons, there is a case to be made they could be better.   I mean Cam is a former MVP and taken a less talented team in the NFC to the SB.  

Interesting idea the Boys signing Cam.  That would be exciting.  Not a huge Cam fan.  But he does have way more swag and passion then Prescott.  I think a lot of what has been missing from the Cowboys has been the passion.  And I blame that on Jason Garrett and Dak Prescott.  Need some fire to motivate and inspire.  Maybe Mike McCarthy will do that.  Will be very interesting to see what he brings to the Cowboys.  At least he won't be stuffed in that green jacket that he always seemed to wear in GB.  LOL 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You know what’s crazy about Dak? Is he not really similar to Tony Romo at the same point? He’s a quality QB, a pro-bowlish QB but not a top 5 guy (at least at this point). I think that he’s closer to 8 than he is to 16 at this point but it’s a fair assessment.
 

The QB rankings are going to change some over the next couple of years too. You have Brady, Brees, Ben, Rivers, Ryan, and Rodgers winding down. You have Darnold, Allen, Tua, Lock, Jackson, Burrow, Baker, Watson, Mahomes, Jones and Murray coming up. Then you have Dak, Jimmy G, Wentz, Goff as young vets whose stories haven’t yet been written. In 2 years the top 10 QB list is going to look a lot different IMO. 

The negotiation wrestling match is as much over the length of the contract as it is over the aggregate amount. Zak prefers a shorter deal so when his current deal expires he will be able to negotiate a bigger deal with the assumption that the salary cap goes up. He is counting on still being in his prime when his preferred shorter deal expires. Jerry and the Cowboys want to wrap up a longer deal so that they won't have to renegotiate a new deal when the cap is assumed to be higher.

 

There has always been an assumption that revenues and the cap will go up. However, with this pandemic and economic cataclysm happening the assumption that the revenue and cap will automatically go up is now called into question. The point that I'm making here is that Dak might be miscalculating where the market will be in the future and when TV revenues and even attendance revenue could conceivably be dramatically down. The point that I'm making here is that considering the scale of the money being fought over it might be in his best interest to lock in for the longer term than the shorter term when the economics of the business could be substantially changed for the worse. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by JohnC

[Paup 1995MVP]

19 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Cowboys outscored their opponents by 113 points last year!! 

Kirby (btw a very good and underrated DB for the Bills back in the 90's)  Go look at who the Cowboys beat big last season and then get back to me on their point differential..  They did very well against the trash of the NFL last year.  The good teams, not so much.  Dak is overrated!