GunnerBill Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, Alphadawg7 said: Im not advocating Cam today is better than Dak today...I am advocating, regardless who one lists as better, the difference is negligible. Cam in 2015 all day over anything Dak has done of course. And with Dalton already there who came in willing to accept a backup role, you got great insurance against the health risks of Cam. Because if I am being honest, I do not think the Cowboys are much worse with Dalton over Dak as it is. Dalton never had a roster this talented to work with and I think he could be quite good for them too. So if Cam's body betrayed him, you still have a long time quality starter in Dalton that can come in and likely play well himself. Dalton had an outstanding roster in Cincy. My God that team was loaded. Was it 2015 he got hurt? Had he not Cincy would have gone close that year. Hell that team made AJ McCarron look serviceable. 1
FireChans Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: The Redskins have been a joke since Kirk walked out of the door. It was an awful call. For it to be any different they need at the very least to have a winning season in the next two years. If they don't then the length of time they could have signed Kirk for they will have gone under .500 every year. In Bills land, if you don’t have cap space and you don’t win a SB, you suck. Vikings fans are pining for the days of watching AP drag Christian Ponder to 7-9. They wish they were the Redskins. Hell, every team wishes they were winless til week 8. THEY HAD CAP SPACE AND DIDNT HAVE TO PAY A QB! 1 1
Billl Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, HappyDays said: A good example of this and why it didn't matter was their final 2 games of the season. They came into the Philly game at 7-7. Philly was the same. It was absolutely a must win game to get into the playoffs. They lost 17-9. Then in week 17 they won a meaningless game against the Redskins 47-16. Their point differential in those 2 games was +23. That's the story of Dak Prescott and the Cowboys last year. When they won, they won big. Great stat padding team. But there were too many important games that the offense flubbed. Dak was 25-44 for 25 yards with no TDs and no turnovers. He wasn’t great, but the rest of his offense was horrific. Taking away Dak’s rushing, they ran 15 times for 47 yards and lost a fumble. Dak didn’t have his best game, but he got zero help. 1
FireChans Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: Dalton had an outstanding roster in Cincy. My God that team was loaded. Was it 2015 he got hurt? Had he not Cincy would have gone close that year. Hell that team made AJ McCarron look serviceable. Yeah 2015 playoff. Dalton was even a long shot for MVP that year.
GunnerBill Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: In Bills land, if you don’t have cap space and you don’t win a SB, you suck. Vikings fans are pining for the days of watching AP drag Christian Ponder to 7-9. They wish they were the Redskins. Hell, every team wishes they were winless til week 8. THEY HAD CAP SPACE AND DIDNT HAVE TO PAY A QB! Yep. Trying to win < trying to have cap space. Man this franchise finally being good is going to be a major shock to some systems. It is long overdue. 1
Kirby Jackson Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, GunnerBill said: Yep. Trying to win < trying to have cap space. Man this franchise finally being good is going to be a major shock to some systems. It is long overdue. Buckle in it’s only going to get worse...
GunnerBill Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: Buckle in it’s only going to get worse... ....as it gets better. That is the irony. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The Redskins have been a joke since Kirk walked out of the door. It was an awful call. For it to be any different they need at the very least to have a winning season in the next two years. If they don't then the length of time they could have signed Kirk for they will have gone under .500 every year. Come on gunner...thats foolish. Should the Bills have retained Tyrod and paid him as a franchise starter after he made 2 pro bowls as an alternate in 3 years here and was coming off the first playoff season in 17 years? EDIT: I am NOT...repeat NOT...comparing TT and Kirk. I compared the DECISION to either stay the course with someone each team KNEW was not the answer. So you can all stop incorrectly responding as if I compared to the two QB's. I said the decision was the same...both teams KNEW neither guy was the future and BOTH teams were correct. Difference, Bills had the right front office and coaching staff leading that rebuild, and Redskins are just the Redskins. OF COURSE NOT. But why? Because everyone and their mother new that would equal a mediocre team at best the next 4-5 years and if we truly wanted to start competing we needed to find a better leader at QB to build around. Does that mean the Redskins have done a GOOD job in rebuilding? Nope, BUT thats a totally different conversation. You can make a correct decision than follow it up with other poor decisions. Moving on and rebuilding was the right approach, they were going no where fast. Now, the Redskins have to make sure the put the right guys in charge to execute that rebuild, but thats INDEPENDENT on whether or not the correct decision was to over pay a mid tier QB. Edited May 22, 2020 by Alphadawg7
FireChans Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: ....as it gets better. That is the irony. Remember how annoying the Pats fans were talking about how they would lose like one free agent or how BB sucked as a GM because they had no cap space after coming off an AFCCG or SB win? Thats gonna be us. And it’s gonna suck Just now, Alphadawg7 said: Come on gunner...thats foolish. Should the Bills have retained Tyrod and paid him as a franchise starter after he made 2 pro bowls as an alternate in 3 years here and was coming off the first playoff season in 17 years? OF COURSE NOT. But why? Because everyone and their mother new that would equal a mediocre team at best the next 4-5 years and if we truly wanted to start competing we needed to find a better leader at QB to build around. Does that mean the Redskins have done a GOOD job in rebuilding? Nope, BUT thats a totally different conversation. You can make a correct decision than follow it up with other poor decisions. Moving on and rebuilding was the right approach, they were going no where fast. Now, the Redskins have to make sure the put the right guys in charge to execute that rebuild, but thats INDEPENDENT on whether or not the correct decision was to over pay a mid tier QB. Tyrod Taylor and Kirk Cousins. absolute hilarity. 1
Billl Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said: Come on gunner...thats foolish. Should the Bills have retained Tyrod and paid him as a franchise starter after he made 2 pro bowls as an alternate in 3 years here and was coming off the first playoff season in 17 years? OF COURSE NOT. But why? Because everyone and their mother new that would equal a mediocre team at best the next 4-5 years and if we truly wanted to start competing we needed to find a better leader at QB to build around. Does that mean the Redskins have done a GOOD job in rebuilding? Nope, BUT thats a totally different conversation. You can make a correct decision than follow it up with other poor decisions. Moving on and rebuilding was the right approach, they were going no where fast. Now, the Redskins have to make sure the put the right guys in charge to execute that rebuild, but thats INDEPENDENT on whether or not the correct decision was to over pay a mid tier QB. Did Tyrod win 18 games plus a playoff game in the two seasons after he left Buffalo while throwing 56 INTs and 16 INTs? If so, yes they should have kept him.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: ....as it gets better. That is the irony. Yep, that’s the sign of a fan base that isn’t accustomed to winning. Instead of enjoying the ride we are going to be worrying about our ability to retain Tyler Matakevich. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Dalton had an outstanding roster in Cincy. My God that team was loaded. Was it 2015 he got hurt? Had he not Cincy would have gone close that year. Hell that team made AJ McCarron look serviceable. Outstanding is extreme...I cant think of a single year where his roster was as good as Dallas roster. And the majority of the years, it wasn't a great roster...mid tier roster at best most years of his career. He has frequently had a poor offensive line. He had an elite WR, but one show struggled with injuries. Had talented TE's that were never healthy much on the field. The only thing Andy consistently had was receiving weapons. They always had a good to great group of WR's. But the overall roster was not outstanding most of his career and not one year was that roster as good as Dallas roster is right now on paper. 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: Remember how annoying the Pats fans were talking about how they would lose like one free agent or how BB sucked as a GM because they had no cap space after coming off an AFCCG or SB win? Thats gonna be us. And it’s gonna suck Tyrod Taylor and Kirk Cousins. absolute hilarity. Of course you went straight to that...I did NOT compare them as players, but shocker thats how you took it lol. I compared the situation of how obvious it was that TT was not going to take us further than we had already been...just like Kirk was NOT taking the Redskins further than he had been. They kept getting destroyed in the playoffs and big games against good teams. I see you conveniently ignored the stats that showed Keenum and Kirk have been the same QB damn near in Minny, except Kirk has won less and not gone as far in the postseason and Keenum did. But please tell me more how good Kirk is. How he is the one that got away. How he is somehow the savior the Redskins missed on. I mean, he hasn't done much more with a substantially more talented roster in Minny than he did in Washington. And his stats actually went down in Minny than they were in Washington. Edited May 22, 2020 by Alphadawg7
HappyDays Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Billl said: Dak was 25-44 for 25 yards with no TDs and no turnovers. He wasn’t great, but the rest of his offense was horrific. Taking away Dak’s rushing, they ran 15 times for 47 yards and lost a fumble. Dak didn’t have his best game, but he got zero help. Zero help? He still has Zeke pass blocking and catching the ball. Amari Cooper is a top 10 WR. The offensive line is great. Man I don't even dislike Dak but he's looking for $35 million per year. There isn't other help coming.
GunnerBill Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Come on gunner...thats foolish. Should the Bills have retained Tyrod and paid him as a franchise starter after he made 2 pro bowls as an alternate in 3 years here and was coming off the first playoff season in 17 years? OF COURSE NOT. But why? Because everyone and their mother new that would equal a mediocre team at best the next 4-5 years and if we truly wanted to start competing we needed to find a better leader at QB to build around. Does that mean the Redskins have done a GOOD job in rebuilding? Nope, BUT thats a totally different conversation. You can make a correct decision than follow it up with other poor decisions. Moving on and rebuilding was the right approach, they were going no where fast. Now, the Redskins have to make sure the put the right guys in charge to execute that rebuild, but thats INDEPENDENT on whether or not the correct decision was to over pay a mid tier QB. Tyrod Taylor first of all is not in the Cousins class. You are talking about hitching yourself to a top 12 starter vs a top 5 backup. Secondly, not paying a good Quarterback for cap space reasons absolutely and completely, as a decision, must then be backed up by other decisions. If the Bills had moved on from Tyrod and drafted Josh Rosen and he had sucked here too while Tyrod had taken other franchises to the playoffs then yes it would have proven a bad decision. I didn't want the Bills to sign Kirk in 2018. I wanted us to take a shot at our own guy in the draft so I am not a Kirk Cousins fanboy... but Kirk Cousins is a good NFL Quarterback. Tyrod is not. 1
Alphadawg7 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, FireChans said: In Bills land, if you don’t have cap space and you don’t win a SB, you suck. Vikings fans are pining for the days of watching AP drag Christian Ponder to 7-9. They wish they were the Redskins. Hell, every team wishes they were winless til week 8. THEY HAD CAP SPACE AND DIDNT HAVE TO PAY A QB! They were better with Case Keenum the year before Kirk Cousins. So you are wrong, they are not pining for those days...they just wish Kirk could do as good a job as crap QB Keenum. 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Tyrod Taylor first of all is not in the Cousins class. You are talking about hitching yourself to a top 12 starter vs a top 5 backup. Secondly, not paying a good Quarterback for cap space reasons absolutely and completely, as a decision, must then be backed up by other decisions. If the Bills had moved on from Tyrod and drafted Josh Rosen and he had sucked here too while Tyrod had taken other franchises to the playoffs then yes it would have proven a bad decision. I didn't want the Bills to sign Kirk in 2018. I wanted us to take a shot at our own guy in the draft so I am not a Kirk Cousins fanboy... but Kirk Cousins is a good NFL Quarterback. Tyrod is not. Where did I compare the QB talent wise? I said the decision was the same. Neither guy was getting them to the promise land. So you dont over pay the guy you KNOW is not the man. And Kirk has PROVEN that he is NOT anything special by doing the same Keenum did with less results and more talent around him. He has not in anyway shape or form made Minny better than they were the year before him. Do I think Kirk is better QB than Keenum, sure, but the results and performance are not there to support that belief. Edited May 22, 2020 by Alphadawg7
Billl Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: Zero help? He still has Zeke pass blocking and catching the ball. Amari Cooper is a top 10 WR. The offensive line is great. Man I don't even dislike Dak but he's looking for $35 million per year. There isn't other help coming. Amari Cooper was basically a JAG in Oakland. The moment he stepped on the field in Arlington, he put up top 10 numbers. He was traded mid season and nearly doubled his productivity when Prescott was throwing him the ball. That’s how much better Prescott is than an average QB like Carr. Nobody but Dak did anything on offense that game. 15 rushes, 47 yards, and a lost fumble was the entire offensive output other than Dak’s. 1
GunnerBill Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Outstanding is extreme...I cant think of a single year where his roster was as good as Dallas roster. And the majority of the years, it wasn't a great roster...mid tier roster at best most years of his career. He has frequently had a poor offensive line. He had an elite WR, but one show struggled with injuries. Had talented TE's that were never healthy much on the field. The only thing Andy consistently had was receiving weapons. They always had a good to great group of WR's. But the overall roster was not outstanding most of his career and not one year was that roster as good as Dallas roster is right now on paper. A frequently poor offensive line? The best left tackle in football? Clint Boling? Kevin Zeitler? At receiver AJ Green, Marvin Jones and Mohammed Sanu? Tyler Eifert at tight end? And that defense in Cincy was for real. That 2015 Bengals roster was stacked. 4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: They were better with Case Keenum the year before Kirk Cousins. So you are wrong, they are not pining for those days...they just wish Kirk could do as good a job as crap QB Keenum. Where did I compare the QB talent wise? I said the decision was the same. Neither guy was getting them to the promise land. So you dont over pay the guy you KNOW is not the man. And Kirk has PROVEN that he is NOT anything special by doing the same Keenum did with less results and more talent around him. He has not in anyway shape or form made Minny better than they were the year before him. Do I think Kirk is better QB than Keenum, sure, but the results and performance are not there to support that belief. Keenum is better than Tyrod too. I'd rather pay Kirk to get me to playoff wins than have the cap space to get to the 2nd overall pick. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 It’s weird that some of the biggest pro Allen people are against Dak. Do people think Allen is better than Dak? 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: The Cowboys outscored their opponents by 113 points last year!! That'll happen when you play the foreskins and Giants over 1/4th of the season. 1
Billl Posted May 22, 2020 Posted May 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: They were better with Case Keenum the year before Kirk Cousins. So you are wrong, they are not pining for those days...they just wish Kirk could do as good a job as crap QB Keenum. Where did I compare the QB talent wise? I said the decision was the same. Neither guy was getting them to the promise land. So you dont over pay the guy you KNOW is not the man. And Kirk has PROVEN that he is NOT anything special by doing the same Keenum did with less results and more talent around him. He has not in anyway shape or form made Minny better than they were the year before him. Do I think Kirk is better QB than Keenum, sure, but the results and performance are not there to support that belief. You’re being ridiculous, but that seems to be the default position for QB evaluation here. Kirk Cousins since leaving Washington: 56 TDs, 26 INTs, 7900 passing yards Case Keenum over that same stretch: 29 TDs, 20 INTs, 5600 passing yards Dak sucks Cousins sucks Jackson sucks Minshew sucks Jones sucks Other QBs had better coaching in middle school than Josh (yes, that was really posted here today), so he’s at a disadvantage. 1
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