oldmanfan Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, Taro T said: You don't have a 1st example. Look at the past week
Tiberius Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, Taro T said: You don't have a 1st example. Is that a "no" then?
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Warcodered said: If we're just eliminating the more criminal possibilities I'd say the most likely candidate would be that he's nowhere near as rich as he pretends to be it's something so closely tied to his ego and how he sees himself that I could believe that he wouldn't let that out at all costs. We’re not “just eliminating the more criminal possibilities” — the actual criminal investigations into him already have. That’s my point. There’s nothing criminal in them or they would have dropped already. Everyone from the FBI to CIA to Mueller’s SCO had access to them, not to mention the IRS. So that leaves only political points left to score. And if you’re Trump, seeing what you’ve seen for the past three years (like how the media painted him as a traitor without evidence), why would you release them? As I said, don’t hate the player for beating the game — or for your own delusions that there’s something big lurking in the returns. It’s just not reality. 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: You ask why then I would support Obama. Well, I didn't. I voted for McCain (and prayed he'd be healthy so we did not have to have another supremely unqualified individual in Palin in the office). Of course you did. 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I agree with the concepts of peace and prosperity. And presidents on both sides of the aisle have been better or worse at those. But my biggest concern right now is the future of our democracy and the concepts of a three part system of government as established by the framers. I think an objective look at what's going on indicates that Trump wants to be a dictator more than president. I feel that is dangerous to the survival of the republic. Wrong. About nearly every single thing you’ve espoused here. But why go by facts when you have feelz? 56 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I disagree. I point to the inspectors general issue and whistleblower issues. There is supposed to be oversight by Congress. When it is ignored or violated that is a problem. And the fact that you have some more true republicans in my view, such as Grassley and Romney, saying that gives it credence. When Congress oversteps its boundaries it should be reined in. But so should the Executive branch. Trump to my mind does not want to be reined in whatsoever, and that is dangerous. Yet, nearly every action he’s taken has been to DE-CENTRALIZE power. Again, who needs facts when you got your feelz. 2 1
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, I am the egg man said: So many are obsessed with hating wether or not it's merited. Trump is an easy target for those who have no one else to target for their miserable existence. Yup. Disliking Trump is intellectually lazy now, it’s not brave. 34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Inspectors general being fired. Not allowing executive branch members to testify in front of congressional committees charged with oversightz You’re leaving out the whole part where Trump was innocent of the crime they were investigating him for, and the fact that Congress, the media, and even Mueller knew that BEFORE the investigations started. For someone who claims to care about democracy and the rule of law, you are applying it very selectively and without factual support. Feelz over facts. 1 2 3
oldmanfan Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Yup. Disliking Trump is intellectually lazy now, it’s not brave. You’re leaving out the whole part where Trump was innocent of the crime they were investigating him for, and the fact that Congress, the media, and even Mueller knew that BEFORE the investigations started. For someone who claims to care about democracy and the rule of law, you are applying it very selectively and without factual support. Feelz over facts. Then all the more reason to allow your staff to testify. If you are innocent then there should be no problem with folks testifying. And that escapes the point., The point is that there is supposed to be a balance of power as envisioned by our founding fathers. And it is apparent to me that Trump wants to ignore that. I do not recall any other president saying, and I'll paraphrase here, that they have complete power. Do you want a dictator or president? I want a president. And I will come back to one of my original points. If the party labels were different and this were a Democrat would your response be identical. To be fair, I think yours would. I would not say that for many. 13 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: We’re not “just eliminating the more criminal possibilities” — the actual criminal investigations into him already have. That’s my point. There’s nothing criminal in them or they would have dropped already. Everyone from the FBI to CIA to Mueller’s SCO had access to them, not to mention the IRS. So that leaves only political points left to score. And if you’re Trump, seeing what you’ve seen for the past three years (like how the media painted him as a traitor without evidence), why would you release them? As I said, don’t hate the player for beating the game — or for your own delusions that there’s something big lurking in the returns. It’s just not reality. Of course you did. Wrong. About nearly every single thing you’ve espoused here. But why go by facts when you have feelz? Yet, nearly every action he’s taken has been to DE-CENTRALIZE power. Again, who needs facts when you got your feelz. Yes I voted for McCain. And Romney. I started this off indicating I would like to have a civil discourse on this but expected the opposite. And here you are calling me a liar. As I expected. I have never actually voted for a Democrat for president and my first presidential vote was 1976. 2 1
SectionC3 Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: So if I understand it now we’re upset because the President isn’t a billionaire? I thought we hated billionaires! Or are now we upset because the President tries to pay as little taxes as the law allows? Isn’t that what the other 300 million of us are doing? I couldn’t care less about Trump’s finances. What I care about is having a leader who tells the truth. The return issue has the stench of another instance in which this guy is not telling the truth. 1
Numark3 Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Not buying it. I’m gonna consult with a big time lawyer named @Crayola64 to catch you in this lie. Your meme game screams minimum wage, mad at the world. 50b in revenue wouldn’t be referring to a law firm, that’s too much Edited May 21, 2020 by Crayola64
SectionC3 Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Then all the more reason to allow your staff to testify. If you are innocent then there should be no problem with folks testifying. And that escapes the point., The point is that there is supposed to be a balance of power as envisioned by our founding fathers. And it is apparent to me that Trump wants to ignore that. I do not recall any other president saying, and I'll paraphrase here, that they have complete power. Do you want a dictator or president? I want a president. And I will come back to one of my original points. If the party labels were different and this were a Democrat would your response be identical. To be fair, I think yours would. I would not say that for many. Yes I voted for McCain. And Romney. I started this off indicating I would like to have a civil discourse on this but expected the opposite. And here you are calling me a liar. As I expected. I have never actually voted for a Democrat for president and my first presidential vote was 1976. About the veracity issue and the character question my responses would be the same. This guy is a scumbag. On the policy issues . . . I don’t think there’s room for conversation on some of his planks because they never would have survived the scrutiny of a Democratic primary (e.g., sea to sea border wall, protectionism, “spend and hope” economics, repeal and replace). 2
TH3 Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 22 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Programming. 22 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: There are no serious questions for Trump haters. These are simply people who didn't get their way in the last election...and they're such entitled whiners that they apparently ALWAYS have to get their way...despite what was until 60 days ago a robustly booming economy at home and peace abroad. 22 hours ago, Reality Check said: They are here to agitate us and make sure that we vote Trump. They are overdoing it, but it is part of their emotionally dominant psychology. They are simply self-destructive people. So the OP asks "Trump Haters" a question....and who chimes in....the trumptards answering the question....comical 4
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Then all the more reason to allow your staff to testify. If you are innocent then there should be no problem with folks testifying. Again, you're going with facts over feelz and ignoring the basic principle of our legal system: innocent until proven guilty. The facts are the President was entirely transparent with the Mueller probe. He waived exec privilege when no one else would have, he gave the SCO access to his staff (and Congress) for endless hours over 2+ years. Now we know, for certain, that the entire time he allowed this, Mueller and Congress knew him to be innocent but were trying to railroad him (illegally and seditously) anyway. You expect him to let them keep doing that? And funny I don't hear you, in all your teeth gnashing about protecting our democratic republic and the rule of law, ONCE mention how the FBI, CIA, and former administration lied to the country for three years about a crime they made up. I think you're not really concerned about any of those things. Not really. 25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: And that escapes the point., The point is that there is supposed to be a balance of power as envisioned by our founding fathers. And it is apparent to me that Trump wants to ignore that. I do not recall any other president saying, and I'll paraphrase here, that they have complete power. "I have a pen and a phone". So, you're wrong. And the facts are not on your side. A tyrant seeks to CENTRALIZE power, not de-centralize it. Every action taken by Trump's administration has been in favor of the latter not the former. So, while it may be "apparent" to you that Trump wants to ignore the balance of power, the facts are not on your sides. Again, feelz over facts are doing you in. 26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Do you want a dictator or president? I want a president. You say this, while at the same time arguing what Mueller did was legal and above the board. It's either because you're ignorant of the facts or are too dim to understand them. It's one or the other. If you did understand the facts, you'd understand that what happened in 2016-2019 was an attempt by both establishment parties to subvert our free and fair elections. The establishment disagreed with who the people chose to run the country, and then they concocted a backdoor coup to overturn those results -- democracy be damned. People like McCain did that. People like Obama did that. People like Clinton did that. People like Bush did that. So spare me your "I just want a president" nonsense when you're CLEARLY and LOUDLY supporting the opposite because, again, you're either ignorant of the fact that you're being used and have been lied to, or you are aware and just don't care because "Orange Man Bad". It's a bad look on you. 29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: And I will come back to one of my original points. If the party labels were different and this were a Democrat would your response be identical. To be fair, I think yours would. I would not say that for many. This isn't about GOP v DNC, conservative v liberal, or even commie vs capitalist. It's about right and wrong and the rule of law. You're outraged that Trump has flaunted the rule of law (he hasn't) while ignoring the very real and very provable ignoring that was done by the people you're (for some reason) compelled to protect. 31 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yes I voted for McCain. And Romney. I started this off indicating I would like to have a civil discourse on this but expected the opposite. And here you are calling me a liar. As I expected. I have never actually voted for a Democrat for president and my first presidential vote was 1976. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm calling you ignorant. Take No Name. He, right now, is rotting in hell (deservedly so) for a lifetime of betraying this country and humanity itself. This is a man who: * Rolled on US soldiers while a POW, getting them killed * "Accidentally" set fire to a US Aircraft carrier * Spent his entire political career seeding chaos around the world and partnering with the enemies of this country to do it (including AQ and actual Nazis) * Spent his entire "philanthropic" career fighting human trafficking while taking money from the world's biggest traffickers and working to keep the loop holes in the law and the border open for them to traffic women and children through his state * Spent the last years of his pathetic, miserable life, committing actual sedition by spreading the Steele dossier to the media, the FBI, and to Congress when he knew it was bogus. That's his actual record and legacy. And you either knew that and didn't care (doubtful), or were ignorant of it. It's an either or proposition. 4 2
oldmanfan Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Again, you're going with facts over feelz and ignoring the basic principle of our legal system: innocent until proven guilty. The facts are the President was entirely transparent with the Mueller probe. He waived exec privilege when no one else would have, he gave the SCO access to his staff (and Congress) for endless hours over 2+ years. Now we know, for certain, that the entire time he allowed this, Mueller and Congress knew him to be innocent but were trying to railroad him (illegally and seditously) anyway. You expect him to let them keep doing that? And funny I don't hear you, in all your teeth gnashing about protecting our democratic republic and the rule of law, ONCE mention how the FBI, CIA, and former administration lied to the country for three years about a crime they made up. I think you're not really concerned about any of those things. Not really. "I have a pen and a phone". So, you're wrong. And the facts are not on your side. A tyrant seeks to CENTRALIZE power, not de-centralize it. Every action taken by Trump's administration has been in favor of the latter not the former. So, while it may be "apparent" to you that Trump wants to ignore the balance of power, the facts are not on your sides. Again, feelz over facts are doing you in. You say this, while at the same time arguing what Mueller did was legal and above the board. It's either because you're ignorant of the facts or are too dim to understand them. It's one or the other. If you did understand the facts, you'd understand that what happened in 2016-2019 was an attempt by both establishment parties to subvert our free and fair elections. The establishment disagreed with who the people chose to run the country, and then they concocted a backdoor coup to overturn those results -- democracy be damned. People like McCain did that. People like Obama did that. People like Clinton did that. People like Bush did that. So spare me your "I just want a president" nonsense when you're CLEARLY and LOUDLY supporting the opposite because, again, you're either ignorant of the fact that you're being used and have been lied to, or you are aware and just don't care because "Orange Man Bad". It's a bad look on you. This isn't about GOP v DNC, conservative v liberal, or even commie vs capitalist. It's about right and wrong and the rule of law. You're outraged that Trump has flaunted the rule of law (he hasn't) while ignoring the very real and very provable ignoring that was done by the people you're (for some reason) compelled to protect. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm calling you ignorant. Take No Name. He, right now, is rotting in hell (deservedly so) for a lifetime of betraying this country and humanity itself. This is a man who: * Rolled on US soldiers while a POW, getting them killed * "Accidentally" set fire to a US Aircraft carrier * Spent his entire political career seeding chaos around the world and partnering with the enemies of this country to do it (including AQ and actual Nazis) * Spent his entire "philanthropic" career fighting human trafficking while taking money from the world's biggest traffickers and working to keep the loop holes in the law and the border open for them to traffic women and children through his state * Spent the last years of his pathetic, miserable life, committing actual sedition by spreading the Steele dossier to the media, the FBI, and to Congress when he knew it was bogus. That's his actual record and legacy. And you either knew that and didn't care (doubtful), or were ignorant of it. It's an either or proposition. I am not protecting anyone. You come on here pretending to be all knowing and you're not. Here's what I would do if I were Obama and Biden right now. I would come to Washington, walk to the capital, and demand to have a hearing today. I'd demand open televised hearings. I'd do so because I believe I'm innocent. And guess what? I would have done the same thing if I were Trump several months ago. If you're innocent, you should have no problems standing in front of the American people and its representatives and answer questions. You also should have no problem making sure every single person in this country has their constitutional right to vote protected, because you believe your views and policies should win their vote. I believe in our Constitution and our form of government set within. I believe in the rule of law. Other than your Deep State stuff, I have no idea what you believe in. It looks suspiciously like anarchy. 4 1
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, oldmanfan said: I am not protecting anyone. You come on here pretending to be all knowing and you're not. I'm going by your words. They are working to protect people, whether you realize it or not. Know what a useful idiot is? You're being one for real bad people. 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Here's what I would do if I were Obama and Biden right now. I would come to Washington, walk to the capital, and demand to have a hearing today. I'd demand open televised hearings. I'd do so because I believe I'm innocent. And guess what? I would have done the same thing if I were Trump several months ago. If you're innocent, you should have no problems standing in front of the American people and its representatives and answer questions. You also should have no problem making sure every single person in this country has their constitutional right to vote protected, because you believe your views and policies should win their vote. Obama and Biden aren't innocent though. We have the receipts. They weaponized the intelligence agencies and the IRS against their political enemies. They spied on American citizens, in violation of the constitution and their fourth amendment rights, they blackmailed and extorted to keep their policies alive. These are facts, not speculations. Again, you're woefully ignorant of the basic facts of this matter -- because you've been lied to. You have a choice right now to make. Either to keep believing the lies from proven liars, or to start thinking for yourself. It's scary to think for yourself and buck the headwinds of the massive media complex, but the facts are on your side if you do. 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I believe in our Constitution and our form of government set within. I believe in the rule of law. And yet -- you STILL haven't said a word about the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Oval Office, Congress, and Media working together to try to subvert both. Not a word. Why? 1
SoCal Deek Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 Let me clear this up for the slower students in the class: The President is in fact the DICTATOR within the Executive Branch and he can rid of employees that he believes are not implementing his agenda. A 1
Chef Jim Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, BillStime said: Go back and read my friend. I already said we don't have to see his taxes. We already know he is full of SCHITT. Go back and read the post that you replied “Exactly. How dare we question him”.
oldmanfan Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I'm going by your words. They are working to protect people, whether you realize it or not. Know what a useful idiot is? You're being one for real bad people. Obama and Biden aren't innocent though. We have the receipts. They weaponized the intelligence agencies and the IRS against their political enemies. They spied on American citizens, in violation of the constitution and their fourth amendment rights, they blackmailed and extorted to keep their policies alive. These are facts, not speculations. Again, you're woefully ignorant of the basic facts of this matter -- because you've been lied to. You have a choice right now to make. Either to keep believing the lies from proven liars, or to start thinking for yourself. It's scary to think for yourself and buck the headwinds of the massive media complex, but the facts are on your side if you do. And yet -- you STILL haven't said a word about the CIA, FBI, DOJ, Oval Office, Congress, and Media working together to try to subvert both. Not a word. Why? Because I’m not wedded to your deep state conspiracy stuff. Yiou have confirmation bias.You have that as your primary view and select media that supports your preconceived theory. When I look at references many people cite here they are from ultraright wing individuals with an agenda. As ultraleft wing media does as well. Republicans want to investigate? Great. Democrats want to investigate? Great. I’d show up and answer their questions if I believe I’m innocent, regardless of party affiliation. 2
Orlando Buffalo Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: A honest question that deserves an honest answer. I want Trump gone because I think he is totally unqualified for the position. I think he lies repeatedly about things, I think he is anything but a fiscal conservative, I think he refuses to accept responsibility for things under his presidency, highlighted by the coronavirus issue. I think if you read through the Muller report that Muller wanted to indict but felt he could not due to DOJ guidelines. And if you look at things like the inspectors general and such it seems clear to me that Trump does not want to be president. He wants to be king or, worse, a dictator. And to me we had a revolution back in the 1700's to fight against that. You ask why then I would support Obama. Well, I didn't. I voted for McCain (and prayed he'd be healthy so we did not have to have another supremely unqualified individual in Palin in the office). I did not think Obama had the qualifications to be elected in 2008, and I was not a fan of his fiscal policies, and I really disagreed with his foreign policy. Drawing a red line and then stepping back in Syria was the height of weakness. In 2012 I thought Romney would have been a good president, and I lost again. I still think Romney would be good. And I think Romney being good is reflected in part that he thinks Trump is bad. I am independent, very conservative on issues such as fiscal policy and law and order, much more liberal in terms of social policies. I have two daughters and having a serial abuser like Trump in the White House makes me angry. I think our country is better than that. I think our country deserves better leadership than that. I know this side of the board is populated by the Deep State conspiracists, the right wings folks (not Republicans, I think the concept of the Republican party as the party I knew it and once belonged to disappeared in 2016). So I suspect my thoughts here will be denigrated, and that's part of the problem. I think this country desperately needs to unite again, to be able to have political discourse and political disagreement without resorting to childish name calling, and, worse, making up stories out of whole cloth to try and tear down the other side. What I would ask is really, really simple: if the parties were flip flopped, and you had a Democrat in the office behaving the way Trump is doing so now, would your views change? I would say yes to most everyone here. The very things one defends about Trump would have had the same folks calling for Obama's head and screaming impeachment if the opposite party had done so. And vice versa for democrats if Obama were a Republican. If Obama were a Republican, and McConnell pulled the stuff with Garland as a Democrat, the same folks who defended it would have screamed bloody murder. This tribalization, polarization, and inability to see things through the opposite side of the prism is going to destroy this country, because everyone knows that the extremes on both sides of the political spectrum will never get what they want. Because they don't have enough votes to do so. we have a national crisis right now. In times of crisis (other than the Civil War) the country has historically come together; this time it is drawing the country further apart. We can't stand for this much longer without losing what made our country great. So you asked, there's my answer. I hope you can have a civil discourse about it. Regrettably I suspect not. You have a well thought out post here- and I will respond with my own thoughts. Much of the criticism you make on Trump is true, especially fiscally. He is not a true conservative by almost any standard and I voted for him because the other choice was Hillary. I think you are though being naive in the nature of what Washington has become. Romney lost because he was not willing to be loud when Candy Crowley lied during the debate, Trump would have blasted her for such a blatant and important lie. Unfortunately we are at a time that the media determines the narrative and end result then packs the story around it and Trump's bombastic method is the way around it. As for Trump splitting the country you clearly have not openly expressed your view to liberals, because I have been called names at work for pointing out that Kavanaugh accuser was clearly wrong. The liberals state that you will fall in line or you will be punished. I am though curious why you think Biden will be better then Trump on any of your concerns, Biden loved Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton, Biden wants to spend more than Trump, Biden has offered no thoughts on Corona other than calling Trump a racist for his China shutdown. Unless new info comes out about Trump I will vote for him since realistically it is him or Biden and Trump is more conservative then Biden.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, oldmanfan said: Because I’m not wedded to your deep state conspiracy stuff. It's not "deep state conspiracy stuff" -- it's actual facts. *It's a FACT that Trump/Russia was never real, that it was a piece of fiction created in the Oval Office and pushed by the CIA, DOJ, FBI, and their media cut-outs for three years despite everyone involved knowing it was not real. * It's a FACT that this was done, not to protect the country from Trump, but to subvert the will of the voters whose choice they disagreed with. * It's a FACT that the SCO knew, before Mueller even took the job, that there was no crime to investigate -- which is why they turned it into a perjury trap. * It's a FACT that the last administration abused the powers of surveillance to illegally spy on AMERICANS: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/01/world/senate-intelligence-commitee-cia-interrogation-report.html https://www.realclearpolicy.com/2019/05/27/obama_spying_on_press_more_extensive_than_previously_thought_41847.html https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf That's why you're failing so hard right now, you can't see the difference. 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Yiou have confirmation bias.You have that as your primary view and select media that supports your preconceived theory. This is incorrect. I used PRIMARY SOURCES as my evidence. And I cite sources from the entire MSM spectrum. Again, if your position was as solid as you think it was, you wouldn't need to lie or distort to make your point... 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: When I look at references many people cite here they are from ultraright wing individuals with an agenda. As ultraleft wing media does as well. Try READING the sources included, rather than just looking. You'd be amazed at what you can learn.
Tiberius Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: You have a well thought out post here- and I will respond with my own thoughts. Much of the criticism you make on Trump is true, especially fiscally. He is not a true conservative by almost any standard and I voted for him because the other choice was Hillary. I think you are though being naive in the nature of what Washington has become. Romney lost because he was not willing to be loud when Candy Crowley lied during the debate, Trump would have blasted her for such a blatant and important lie. Unfortunately we are at a time that the media determines the narrative and end result then packs the story around it and Trump's bombastic method is the way around it. As for Trump splitting the country you clearly have not openly expressed your view to liberals, because I have been called names at work for pointing out that Kavanaugh accuser was clearly wrong. The liberals state that you will fall in line or you will be punished. I am though curious why you think Biden will be better then Trump on any of your concerns, Biden loved Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton, Biden wants to spend more than Trump, Biden has offered no thoughts on Corona other than calling Trump a racist for his China shutdown. Unless new info comes out about Trump I will vote for him since realistically it is him or Biden and Trump is more conservative then Biden. So, if it was a different Democrat you would have voted for that person? Can you name several Democrats that are better than Trump right now?
SectionC3 Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: I think you need to go back and read up a bit more. The intent of the government is that the congress pass broad laws and appropriate funds. The executive branch then spends those funds and administrates policies without stepping outside those broad parameters. The Congress has an oversight role for sure, but they are NOT the President’s boss. This is essentially the same structure as your local School Superintendent and your School Board. The problems we’re having are not caused by presidential overreach. It’s been caused by a congressional (House of Representatives) temper tantrum. The Democrats have refused to deal with the reality that the president is hired by the people, not by them, and that his contract will either be extended or terminated by those same people....not by them. The border wall national emergency maneuver is a quintessential overreach and a trampling of the United States constitution. Facilitated by a dumb law, to be sure, but still an overreach. Edited May 21, 2020 by SectionC3 1 1
oldmanfan Posted May 21, 2020 Posted May 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said: You have a well thought out post here- and I will respond with my own thoughts. Much of the criticism you make on Trump is true, especially fiscally. He is not a true conservative by almost any standard and I voted for him because the other choice was Hillary. I think you are though being naive in the nature of what Washington has become. Romney lost because he was not willing to be loud when Candy Crowley lied during the debate, Trump would have blasted her for such a blatant and important lie. Unfortunately we are at a time that the media determines the narrative and end result then packs the story around it and Trump's bombastic method is the way around it. As for Trump splitting the country you clearly have not openly expressed your view to liberals, because I have been called names at work for pointing out that Kavanaugh accuser was clearly wrong. The liberals state that you will fall in line or you will be punished. I am though curious why you think Biden will be better then Trump on any of your concerns, Biden loved Ted Kennedy and Bill Clinton, Biden wants to spend more than Trump, Biden has offered no thoughts on Corona other than calling Trump a racist for his China shutdown. Unless new info comes out about Trump I will vote for him since realistically it is him or Biden and Trump is more conservative then Biden. I voted for Johnson in 2016 because I could not stomach either of the other two choices. I would say in most every presidential election I've voted in I voted for the person I thought would do the least damage. Biden would be this time because I believe Trump wants to be dictator of the US and not president, and while it pains me to do so because of fiscal policies it's not like debt has gone down the past 4 years..
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