NFL Approves Rule Changes for Hirings

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I had figured it was a decoy extreme to get these others easily passed.

 

An offer to move up 6 spots on a day 2 draft pick if you commit 4-6 years and tens of millions on a HC you weren't actually interested isn't very extreme---it's so laughable that it has to be a cynical response to this issue by the owners.  None of them would be moved by such a silly "enticement".

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Can you imagine if under the improved draft pick rule if all 32 teams hired a minority candidate in the same year?  That upcoming draft would be epic because every team in the league would have better picks.

Each team will be awarded TWO additional 'international player' positions on their roster, and those will not count against team roster totals.  Likewise, these players will not be allowed to play.  Fan message board members will be allowed speculation as to where and how international players can be utilized.*


*(Teams exercising this right acknowledge a compensatory draft pick will be awarded to the New England Patriots for each occurrence of the award.)

[All_Pro_Bills]

Interviewing more minority candidates won't do much good if none of them get the job offer.  And there's a fine line between offering opportunity and preferential treatment.  So the issue is very difficult to address but the theme of the issue is that qualified minority coaches are being overlooked and the head coaching jobs are given to less qualified white candidates.

 

Along with every new head coaching hire I think teams needs to disclose their thought process on selecting their new head coach.  And provide detailed explanations about why the other candidates were not selected.  Maybe this just stays between the NFL league office and the and the teams ownership?  I suggest this because a lot of the head coaching decisions we see are very puzzling.  And to this day I'd really like to know the thought process that went behind the Pegula's hiring Rex Ryan.  My first question would be, "you beat his Jets team twice last year and scored over 80 points total so what in the world leads you to believe this guys is some kind of defensive genius?"  Obviously from the results of his tenure it wasn't a wise choice as is the case with many other team's head coaching hires.  So if owners are indeed discriminating and hiring less qualified candidates they only end up hurting the quality of the their team which is counter to what you should be doing here.  Or they could simply be inept at managing the hiring process

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[papazoid]

valuable experience is gained each time you go through an interview in the hiring process. you can prepare a better answer for future interviews.

 

therefore, increasing the minimum required minority candidates is a positive step.

 

once a year, the NFL should conduct a video conference on the entire interview process to all who are interested.

 

it seems to me that familiarity with a candidate from a previous work experience plays a big factor in final hiring decisions, especially coordinators. you've already seen how they work and you know you can get along with them. if you have several qualified candidates, but one you already know, there is less risk of it not working out.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, vincec said:

I don't want to go in circles here because as I said I agree with the rule for the reasons you an eball stated but the rule is in place to increase the representation of minorities in the coaching ranks, which is a quota based goal. People don't feel that there is enough minority representation coaching. It's not merit based. People weren't saying that coaches stink and if they open up the pool more when they hire then the standard will improve (although this may be the case.)

 

If you are applying for a job with 2 candidates, are your chances better to get it than if there are 10? What about 20? You can say that if you're the best then it doesn't matter but that's not reality because your skills are not measured in a vacuum they are measured against the other applicants. The "best" means better than the other applicants. So if there are lots of other applicants, it's harder to be the "best" (unless you're the best possible candidate in the world I guess.)

 

 

 

Yea I still think this is fundamentally flawed logic. First of all, I'm not saying I represent the entire body of concern (I don't) but to me it is entirely merit based. I think the last two hiring cycles in particular have been pretty awful. There have been 20 hires in the last three hiring cycles. 5 of those guys are yet to coach a game but 3 of the 15 hired in 2018 and 2019 have already been fired (Wilks, Kitchens and Shurmer) and at least a couple of the others are already very much on the hotseat going into 2020 (Gase and Patricia). It has been bad hiring. Part of the reason for that is that the existing Rooney Rule is not working because teams are interviewing the closest internal minority candidate they can lay their hands on rather than genuinely looking out at the NFL coaching landscape for the most qualified minority candidates. I am pretty confident that if the rule change has the desired impact on that then the number will naturally go up again, because there are credible guys out there who will get the jobs and some of those guys will do better than some of the poor hires that teams have been making. It isn't only fixing the Rooney Rule that will help that.... it is partly reducing the annual coaching churn. 2020 had 5 openings. I think that is about a sustainable level. When there are 7 or 8 as in 2018 and 2019 respectively the talent pool dilutes too quickly. It is not quota based at all for me. It is the right guys, guys with the stuff to be good NFL Head Coaches, are not getting interviews. Once they are they will get hired and a percentage of those will do good jobs. Better jobs than some people who benefit from the current "who you know" hiring culture.

 

And the best candidate for a job will get a job. That doesn't matter if there are 4 people interviewed or 24 people interviewed. Not interviewing any credible minority candidates and then hiring a white candidate is more discriminatory and less merit based than that same white man getting a job when a field of credible candidates (including a credible minority candidate) is in the field.

[bigK14094]

17 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Heard an interesting take from Stephen A the other day on this subject.  His big issue is people with no NFL experience getting HC jobs over people with many years NFL experience at lower levels.  (He singled out Kingsbury as an example on what's wrong  with the system in his eyes)   

 

He suggested putting in a rule that requires all HC must first be a coordinator, his reasoning is many minorities get those jobs but never move any higher.  By requiring coordinator experience first would improve the chance for them.  He'd do a similar thing with front office positions too.  His argument is you can't go to college without first graduating HS.  For that matter for all practical purposes you can't play in the NFL without first playing college or being out of HS for three years.

Leadership is where you find it, there is no formula....Steven A is wrong here.  Kingsbury is one example that has yet to play out as a  correct selection.  But, John Lynch, the GM in San Fran 49's, is a good one.  He never had a job in the NFL other than as a player.  Everybody thought ownership  was nut s to hire him, but, he has done a great job.  There is no "road" to senior positions.  Those candidates are "where you find them", not a specific place.  GM's and HC's also have to have the  confidence of the ownership.  That is no small thing to accomplish...and speaks to that ill defined entity called chemistry.  Could it be that minority candidates might have trouble generating that kind of relationship with some owners?  Yes, I think so.  No set of rules is going to solve that problem.  Now, Buffalo hired McD without looking elsewhere...other than Anthony Lynn who was acting HC at the time.  but, AL was flawed as a candidate with being from the Rex era.....performance has now shown AL has been competent w the Chargers, so the Bills might have done OK with him.  Of course, McD was an all star pick, and getting Bean to join was just as good.  Remember, the NFL teams are privately held...not corporations (except GB) and the owners call all the shots they want to call.

[Irv]

19 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

 

 

If all the internal candidates are minorities why would you need this rule?   Kind of short sighted. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Simple solution;

 

require coaches and GMs to have NFL or maybe just collegiate playing experience going forward.
 

Allow a few exemptions to each team. 
 

that should flip the demographics of the candidate pool to favor diversity and it makes sense that a prerequisite would be involvement at player level to understand that side of the game. 

 

no need to talk race. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Simple solution;

 

require coaches and GMs to have NFL or maybe just collegiate playing experience going forward.
 

Allow a few exemptions to each team. 
 

that should flip the demographics of the candidate pool to favor diversity and it makes sense that a prerequisite would be involvement at player level to understand that side of the game. 

 

no need to talk race. 

 

That isn't going to exclude many HCs and GMs.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

That isn't going to exclude many HCs and GMs.

 

 

Ok then just stick to NFL experience.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Ok then just stick to NFL experience.

 

Then you've just disqualified Mike Tomlin and Marvin Lewis from even getting an interview. Going in the opposite direction here because you are restricting the pool.

 

Look, there is nothing wrong (and actually plenty good) with simply requiring an expanded interview pool.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Then you've just disqualified Mike Tomlin and Marvin Lewis from even getting an interview. Going in the opposite direction here because you are restricting the pool.

 

Look, there is nothing wrong (and actually plenty good) with simply requiring an expanded interview pool.

 

 

mandating more Rooney Rule interviews is basically just doing more of what they say isn’t working. 

 

I agree with a previously made point that they problem is the good ol boy coach and GM network Is homogeneous and recycles the same mediocre guys round n round

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

mandating more Rooney Rule interviews is basically just doing more of what they say isn’t working. 

 

I agree with a previously made point that they problem is the good ol boy coach and GM network Is homogeneous and recycles the same mediocre guys round n round

 

The Rooney Rule has worked in the past and has made a difference. There are a few factors that have made it less effective recently, the biggest one being the shift to hiring Offensive coaches while most minority coaches are Defensive specialists. That can change over time though too. Especially with the shift to more black QBs that we've seen over the past couple of decades.

 

There really isnt much more they can do to combat the good ol boy network without putting in unfair restrictions and quotes, and no one wants that. At least with the Rooney Rule and its expansion, they are trying to address the issue and still allow teams to hire in fairness.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Ok then just stick to NFL experience.

What’s the track record of former players vs nonplayers as HC or GM?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

What’s the track record of former players vs nonplayers as HC or GM?

I don’t really care, but I know the demographics remove the excuse about access to opportunity 

[4merper4mer]

7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Ok then just stick to NFL experience.

So do we have to fire Beane and McDermott?.  Bellichick is a goner too.

Edited May 21, 2020 by 4merper4mer

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

So do we have to fire Beane and McDermott?.  Bellichick is a goner too.

 

20 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Simple solution;

 

require coaches and GMs to have NFL or maybe just collegiate playing experience going forward.
 

Allow a few exemptions to each team. 
 

that should flip the demographics of the candidate pool to favor diversity and it makes sense that a prerequisite would be involvement at player level to understand that side of the game. 

 

no need to talk race. 

 

[ThurmasThoman]

21 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Simple solution;

 

require coaches and GMs to have NFL or maybe just collegiate playing experience going forward.
 

Allow a few exemptions to each team. 
 

that should flip the demographics of the candidate pool to favor diversity and it makes sense that a prerequisite would be involvement at player level to understand that side of the game. 

 

no need to talk race. 

 

Eh, never mind.

I dont want to debate race on the internet today, its too nice out.

Editing my comment.

Edited May 21, 2020 by JohnnyGold

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, JohnnyGold said:

 

Eh, never mind.

I dont want to debate race on the internet today, its too nice out.

Editing my comment.

Good choice 

[RiotAct]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:38 AM, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Each team will be awarded TWO additional 'international player' positions on their roster, and those will not count against team roster totals.  Likewise, these players will not be allowed to play.  Fan message board members will be allowed speculation as to where and how international players can be utilized.*


*(Teams exercising this right acknowledge a compensatory draft pick will be awarded to the New England Patriots for each occurrence of the award.)

Pretty soon, Belichick will be able to swim in his compensatory draft picks like Scrooge McDuck does with gold coins!