GunnerBill Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: I was asking a question as i didnt understand what you were getting at. So I assume that means you think Theilen is better than Brown, am i correct on that? Yes. Doc was arguing the opposite.
MJS Posted May 19, 2020 Author Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Chicken Boo said: The pressure is on Allen and the o-line. To a point, but having two good receivers that can line up outside and be effective should take some pressure off, because defenses won't be able to stack the box as much and blitz. They'll need to drop into coverage.
Doc Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Even if he doesn't, he is still a better receiver than John Brown. Look I have been king of the Diggs is better than Theilen party for 3 years. I am absolutely certain his production will be down without Diggs opposite him. But having Brown as better than him is bonkers. I'm not saying that Brown is great, and Thielen's a fine player. I just remain unconvinced that he's anything more than an Alvin Harper/Peerless Prices/Eric Decker type, i.e. guys who were great #2 WRs but not #1 WRs. So my take is hardly "bonkers" unless/until he produces as the #1 guy in Minnesota. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, Doc said: I'm not saying that Brown is great, and Thielen's a fine player. I just remain unconvinced that he's anything more than an Alvin Harper/Peerless Prices/Eric Decker type, i.e. guys who were great #2 WRs but not #1 WRs. So my take is hardly "bonkers" unless/until he produces as the #1 guy in Minnesota. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. This doesn’t make sense since Thielen had better numbers in every year he wasn’t hurt. The guys you named were clear number 2s. In terms of production, Thielen was their #1. I think they are both 1A and 1B and they both benefited from playing with each other. 51 minutes ago, MJS said: To a point, but having two good receivers that can line up outside and be effective should take some pressure off, because defenses won't be able to stack the box as much and blitz. They'll need to drop into coverage. How much do teams blitz Allen in comparison to other QBs? With mobile guys who aren’t the most accurate, a lot of the strategy tends to be keep them in the pocket with controlled rush lanes and play zone. Force them to pick you apart from the pocket.
Doc Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 19 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: This doesn’t make sense since Thielen had better numbers in every year he wasn’t hurt. The guys you named were clear number 2s. In terms of production, Thielen was their #1. I think they are both 1A and 1B and they both benefited from playing with each other. That concept doesn't make sense. Opponents keep their #1 CB matched up with their opponent's #1 WR almost 100% of the time.
MJS Posted May 19, 2020 Author Posted May 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: How much do teams blitz Allen in comparison to other QBs? With mobile guys who aren’t the most accurate, a lot of the strategy tends to be keep them in the pocket with controlled rush lanes and play zone. Force them to pick you apart from the pocket. He is under pressure quite a bit on key downs like 3rd down.
Bangarang Posted May 19, 2020 Posted May 19, 2020 40 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: This doesn’t make sense since Thielen had better numbers in every year he wasn’t hurt. The guys you named were clear number 2s. In terms of production, Thielen was their #1. I think they are both 1A and 1B and they both benefited from playing with each other. How much do teams blitz Allen in comparison to other QBs? With mobile guys who aren’t the most accurate, a lot of the strategy tends to be keep them in the pocket with controlled rush lanes and play zone. Force them to pick you apart from the pocket. Only thing I could find was this: Among the 28 quarterbacks who have taken at least 50 percent of their team’s offensive snaps, he has faced pressure on 37 percent of his 479 dropbacks, 11th-most in the league. Allen’s adjusted completion percentage (taking out drops, spikes and throwaways) in those situations is just 53.7 percent which ranks 28th, and his passer rating is 54.2 which is 24th.
Thurman#1 Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 On 5/19/2020 at 4:47 AM, MJS said: And win contested catches, something our receivers have absolutely sucked at for a long, long time. Allen will be more willing to throw up 50/50 balls and not feel like he needs to lead his receivers so much on deep balls. Seriously can't think of a single contested catch from our wide receivers last year except for one or two from Duke Williams. I think Knox had a couple, but he's a TE. Contested catches: John Brown, Jets game 1st Q 9:06 Brown, Cincy 1st quarter 9:21 Brown, against Gilmore, 4th quarter 14:20 Brown, against Washington pushes the CB away, 1st quarter 3:00 Brown, against the Steelers, 4th quarter 9:59 That's just a quick look through one receiver's work. Yeah, none of our guys were specialists in this, it's not what they're best at, but nonetheless they make them sometimes, doing a good job. I suspect you're thinking of only one kind of contested catch, only the kind where there's no separation and it's a leap contest where the highest guy wins. Brown didn't have any pure leap contests, but did a great job of pushing off some guys who were right on him and going up and also just out-battling guys for several others.
FireChans Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 On 5/18/2020 at 7:57 PM, Doc said: Brown is better than Thielen. He's a #1 WR. Thielen will struggle in that role this year. Yeah no. Thielen is a superior player. Not facing a CB1 every game is a bonus, but when Thielen was facing #2’s he was putting up 1300 yards. When John Brown was facing #2’s, he had one good year 5 years ago.
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