Over 29 years of fanhood Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 12 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said: not odd to be barefoot. I posted this link earlier on field sobriety tests https://www.minicklaw.com/attacking-walk-turn-field-sobriety-test/ ed was wearing two inch heels? 1
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: ed was wearing two inch heels? lol. officers are required to allow the option of barefoot testing. that is all i’m saying. so it is not at all strange to see a person take these tests barefoot https://www.duibart.com/blog/2011/february/validity-of-dui-field-sobriety-tests/ Quote NHTSA says the officer should give the person the choice of removing their footwear. More importantly, i have read some reports of Oliver “failing” the field sobriety tests. these tests are notoriously unreliable (see above link for statistics - since this thread has a bunch of people prepping AP Stats?). Quote The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, or "NHTSA," developed three standardized field sobriety tests back in the 1970s that when administrated following the same procedures and protocols are supposed to be a valid indicator of when an individual's blood alcohol concentration is over a 0.08. Those three tests are the Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus Test (or "HGN"), the Walk and Turn Test, and the One Leg Stand Test. In NHTSA's original validation studies of these tests it was determined that the HGN test was accurate 77% of the time, the Walk and Turn Test was accurate 68% of the time, and the One Leg Stand Test was accurate 65% of the time. Edited May 20, 2020 by IgotBILLStopay 1
Doc Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said: Why would it being the offseason matter? Does the league have separate rules for the offseason? Can players take anabolic steroids in the off season (no P or E in the off season)? Apparently they do, at least for stimulants. Quote According to the NFL's policy on performance-enhancing substances, a player who tests positive for banned stimulants like Adderall during the season receives a four-game suspension without pay. If a player tests positive during the offseason, he is referred to a substance abuse program.
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, Doc said: Apparently they do, at least for stimulants. Nope, still a banned substance. Still subject to off-season testing. Penalty may be different, but rules (and banned list) are the same all year.
Doc Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Nope, still a banned substance. Still subject to off-season testing. Penalty may be different, but rules (and banned list) are the same all year. I answered your question and the answer is that the league does have different rules. During season: automatic 4 game suspension. During off-season: player enters into substances of abuse program and no suspension. But without him failing a league-administered test, it's moot anyway. Now lay out an exhaustive defense plan for Oliver, like you like to do whenever a Cheaters player or owner gets into trouble.
Sig1Hunter Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 52 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said: lol. officers are required to allow the option of barefoot testing. that is all i’m saying. so it is not at all strange to see a person take these tests barefoot https://www.duibart.com/blog/2011/february/validity-of-dui-field-sobriety-tests/ More importantly, i have read some reports of Oliver “failing” the field sobriety tests. these tests are notoriously unreliable (see above link for statistics - since this thread has a bunch of people prepping AP Stats?). Do you understand the context behind those stats that you posted regarding the FSEs?
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: I answered your question and the answer is that the league does have different rules. During season: automatic 4 game suspension. During off-season: player enters into substances of abuse program and no suspension. But without him failing a league-administered test, it's moot anyway. Now lay out an exhaustive defense plan for Oliver, like you like to do whenever a Cheaters player or owner gets into trouble. It doesn't. Different penalties. Defense? As always doc, not hard to predict; they will challenge the stop, the blood test. the FST. He didn't help himself by Rolling down his window with the beer between his legs, or the adderall admission. These, like the others you reference, are common sense defenses that you struggle with (or pretend to).
LeviF Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Just now, Sig1Hunter said: Do you understand the context behind those stats that you posted regarding the FSEs? To ask the question is to answer it. Nor can they comprehend why a DUI attorney trying to sell his services might not explain the statistics in any meaningful way. Nor can they understand that there may be a reason why the NHTSA would still insist on those three FSTs having "scientific validity" and being administered as standard practice even though the NHTSA's curriculum explicitly mentions the percentages given. 1
Mango Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Why would it being the offseason matter? Does the league have separate rules for the offseason? Can players take anabolic steroids in the off season (no P or E in the off season)? The NFL does not go far enough with most of its testing, then hands out sometimes super high suspensions if you are one of the ones that do get caught. I think it would be in their best interest to have a thorough list. From the perspective of international sport, there is in competition and out of competition bans. So pot, cocaine, adderall, or certain amounts of caffeine for example has no real performance enhancing benefit outside of competition day, so literally USADA could show up for a random test at your house in the off season and you could pee while ripping on a bong, and nothing would happen. But, you test positive at a World Championship and you are toast. I would like to see the NFL become a bit more sophisticated with its testing. I would remove pot all together for the NFL. Agree to 300 random offseason tests. Players can go and rip lines for all I care, but really they are testing for steroids, HGH, etc. and 300 random in season tests. Test positive in season for PED's, you are toast for the rest of the year. Every single national team athlete in every sport in the US is letting USADA and WADA know their whereabouts everyday, it is not that hard.
dollars 2 donuts Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 I know this is tangential, but I'd rather see this being pot than drinking and driving.
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Mango said: The NFL does not go far enough with most of its testing, then hands out sometimes super high suspensions if you are one of the ones that do get caught. I think it would be in their best interest to have a thorough list. From the perspective of international sport, there is in competition and out of competition bans. So pot, cocaine, adderall, or certain amounts of caffeine for example has no real performance enhancing benefit outside of competition day, so literally USADA could show up for a random test at your house in the off season and you could pee while ripping on a bong, and nothing would happen. But, you test positive at a World Championship and you are toast. I would like to see the NFL become a bit more sophisticated with its testing. I would remove pot all together for the NFL. Agree to 300 random offseason tests. Players can go and rip lines for all I care, but really they are testing for steroids, HGH, etc. and 300 random in season tests. Test positive in season for PED's, you are toast for the rest of the year. Every single national team athlete in every sport in the US is letting USADA and WADA know their whereabouts everyday, it is not that hard. There is a list. Pot has no penalty anymore.
Doc Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 25 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It doesn't. Different penalties. Defense? As always doc, not hard to predict; they will challenge the stop, the blood test. the FST. He didn't help himself by Rolling down his window with the beer between his legs, or the adderall admission. These, like the others you reference, are common sense defenses that you struggle with (or pretend to). Different penalties is different rules. Add-in the TUE... I don't struggle with defenses, WEO. You do...when it comes to Bills players.
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Doc said: Different penalties is different rules. Add-in the TUE... I don't struggle with defenses, WEO. You do...when it comes to Bills players. You struggled with Kraft's lawyers' planned defense....mightily. I have just given you the Oliver defense: challenge everything. If he has a TUE in hand, he's got no issue with the league. What's your struggle now?
Mango Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: There is a list. Pot has no penalty anymore. Correct. Maybe I should have said thorough process and delineate between when things are banned. But I guess that assumes the NFL actually cares about PED's and would rather just have the optics that they do.
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 Just now, Mango said: Correct. Maybe I should have said thorough process and delineate between when things are banned. But I guess that assumes the NFL actually cares about PED's and would rather just have the optics that they do. They do---it's their drug policy. Everything on the list is banned. Taking speed in the offseason gets you mandatory stage 1 substance abuse program with its treatment and testing requirements and game suspensions for violation of those requirements. 1
Mango Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: It doesn't. Different penalties. Defense? As always doc, not hard to predict; they will challenge the stop, the blood test. the FST. He didn't help himself by Rolling down his window with the beer between his legs, or the adderall admission. These, like the others you reference, are common sense defenses that you struggle with (or pretend to). This one is weird. The whole thing is weird. One report had the beer between his legs. Another report has it in his passenger side door. Normally with these DUI's I am quick to just shake my head cause the guy is an idiot. But this seems inconsistent. https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/court-records-buffalo-bills-ed-oliver-admitted-to-drinking-taking-adderall-prior-to-houston-dwi-arrest/285-df7cfad6-f1d3-422b-bab3-9e99dbe845c5
IgotBILLStopay Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 53 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: Do you understand the context behind those stats that you posted regarding the FSEs? i see it as a lawyer (and former prosecutor) who knows the ins and outs of fses talking about them. pls do explain what i am missing.
Mr. WEO Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Mango said: This one is weird. The whole thing is weird. One report had the beer between his legs. Another report has it in his passenger side door. Normally with these DUI's I am quick to just shake my head cause the guy is an idiot. But this seems inconsistent. https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime/court-records-buffalo-bills-ed-oliver-admitted-to-drinking-taking-adderall-prior-to-houston-dwi-arrest/285-df7cfad6-f1d3-422b-bab3-9e99dbe845c5 Maybe it was between his legs as the officer first saw him after the window rolls down, then he put it in the door as he got out.
Mango Posted May 20, 2020 Posted May 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: They do---it's their drug policy. Everything on the list is banned. Taking speed in the offseason gets you mandatory stage 1 substance abuse program with its treatment and testing requirements and game suspensions for violation of those requirements. Yeah, and most of it is dumb. Until a few weeks/months ago, if you tested for pot you entered the program. It is all an optics play, not for PED's. Some 22 year old enters the leagues substance abuse program for effing adderall when it has zero use outside of game day. The NFL should give more leeway to off season usage and do more in season testing. The rest of the world, and even the UFC, just adopt USADA and WADA rules and regulations. The NFL gets off way too easy in season, and they make up for it with stupid rules in the offseason. 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Maybe it was between his legs as the officer first saw him after the window rolls down, then he put it in the door as he got out. He had it in between his legs when talking to the officer, then reached over and put it in the drivers side door after the officer already saw it? That doesn't make any sense. 1
Recommended Posts